I think this alternate universe is screwed (spoilers)

[erebus]

Well you're not thinking about ALL of the ramifications. It's possible now that the Federation might not meet the Borg for a long time after when they did. remember, Q flung the Enterprise-D into the Delta Quadrant which is where they met the Borg and the Borg got a "taste" of the federation. It was either Q or someone else that said we weren't supposed to meet the Borg yet, so it's possible that the Borg aren't encountered for some time.
You have to think of it as the butterfly effect. One thing has changed, the destruction of Vulcan, many many unforeseeable outcomes will arraise from it. (namely writers can do whatever they want) Though I think certain things should still be in place, V'ger visits Earth looking for it's creator, The Whale Probe visits Earth, but those will have different outcomes now depending on all the actions that lead up to it.

I think the Whale Probe is gonna fuck us over. Just think of what needed to happen in order for the Enterprise crew to save the day!

Kirk had to maroon Khan on Ceti Alpha V. Years later, Chekov had to rediscover Khan on Ceti Alpha V. Khan had to steal the Genesis device. Spock had to die. Spock had to be reborn on the Genesis planet. Commander Kruge had to try and steal Genesis. Kirk had to blow up the Enterprise and steal a Bird of Prey. They had to take the Bird of Prey all the way to Vulcan (which doesn't EXIST ANYMORE!). Then they had to fly home to Earth, only to be stopped on their way and figure out that the transmission from the Probe was the sound of humpback whales.

That Probe will destroy us all.

ha ha, i like it.

Lets hope they come up with another solution!

 

[Cheewiee]

This Federation seems alot stronger though now than what we saw in TOS.

The nuEnterprise is 2-2.5 times larger than the orgional 1701, and size wise is up there with the E-D.

 

[Lt. Trull]

Depending on how long Old Spock lives, he might just see V'Ger or the Probe or whatever coming and say, "Oh, yeah, that Probe. It actually want to talk to some whales. So go get some before it causes any real damage."

Or maybe Spock will just go back in time on his own and collect some whales, dump them in the harbor when nobody is looking, and then just go about his business.

they won't have to go back in time.... all spock prime has to do is tell the scientific community of earth, "you know all that dna stuff you have lying around..."
I think you might want to start cloning a few hundred humpback whales....

 

[TheMadCloner]

I'm not worried.

Captain Pike is more able in this timeline. As a result, he'll become bored at sitting in a wheelchair his whole life. He takes up environmentalism as a cause, and as a result whales are genetically created in some sort of Oceanic Park. The whales run amuck and kill the lawyer... er, wait, wrong movie.

 

[Feofilakt]

If anything, it might make the Federation different. Not stronger, not weaker... Just different. Less rigid, perhaps?

Not to mention that Vulcan may have been a big influence on the overall economy of the Federation, driving it toward the socialism we saw in TNG. "The needs of the many..." sounds a lot like "...to each according to his need", after all. A more capitalistic future for the Federation may result from Vulcan's demise - and maybe an alliance with the Ferengi!

Oh god, no. That would be awful

The Federation is indeed in a lot of trouble if Vulcan was the intellectual center of the Federation. People can lose wars, resources, men, equipment, and land, but when the intellectual core of the country is killed off you are headed for a lot of trouble and fast. Many times ideas are more important than pure technological know-how, and a Federation without any ideas is like no Federation at all.

Cases in point:
Classical Greece after the Pelopennesian War: Close call, great minds like Aristotle and Alexander saved the Hellenic world, leading to the Hellenistic world that Alexander carved out. But...

Death of Alexander and rise of the Diadochi: Death of the Great Idea, the unification of Hellenic and Persian world on equal terms. Military thugs concerned with prestige and wealth took the place of this and plunged the Hellenistic world into a centuries long state of almost constant warfare

Death of Rome: Due in part to the slow death of intellectual life in the Roman Republic, and a much more pronounced version in the Empire

Stagnation of China at various points: A scarcity of true intellectual life, not technical know-how, did them in time and time again.

Muslim world, at various points: Pretty self explanatory, we are seeing it today.

These are natural occurrences, yes, but imagine the trauma of, say, the Greek world losing Athens. They could not recover from such a blow, particularly in the cradle of the Greek Miracle in the 6th century BC. What of a Medieval world without Rome? A Makedonia without Pellas or Larissa? A Persian world without Babylon or Tyre? All of these are crippling in the prime, nevermind in the infancy of these entities.

I got a little off topic, perhaps... but the death of Vulcan in such a critical period would be the death of the Federation's Spirit in a Hegelian sense. I am not sure if any civilization could survive such a blow.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's likely that "New Vulcan" will sufficently serve the roles that "old Vulcan" played in the Federation resulting in things not being all-that different aside from some delay in technological advances/discoveries that may have been made by Vulcans who lived on, or would have lived on, Vulcan born of people who were killed in the incident.

"New Vulcan" wit the rescued elders will still be able to play its vital role in the Federation especailly with elder Spock's help.

 

[Feofilakt]

It's likely that "New Vulcan" will sufficently serve the roles that "old Vulcan" played in the Federation resulting in things not being all-that different aside from some delay in technological advances/discoveries that may have been made by Vulcans who lived on, or would have lived on, Vulcan born of people who were killed in the incident.

"New Vulcan" wit the rescued elders will still be able to play its vital role in the Federation especailly with elder Spock's help.

I am not so sure. The amount of people saved constitutes a very small minority of the population (10k out of 6 billion). If I were to save that very minute percentage of people from a Athens about to be blown up before the golden age of Greece, I somehow doubt the Greek world would have been as successful.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's likely that "New Vulcan" will sufficently serve the roles that "old Vulcan" played in the Federation resulting in things not being all-that different aside from some delay in technological advances/discoveries that may have been made by Vulcans who lived on, or would have lived on, Vulcan born of people who were killed in the incident.

"New Vulcan" wit the rescued elders will still be able to play its vital role in the Federation especailly with elder Spock's help.

I am not so sure. The amount of people saved constitutes a very small minority of the population (10k out of 6 billion). If I were to save that very minute percentage of people from a Athens about to be blown up before the golden age of Greece, I somehow doubt the Greek world would have been as successful.

Spock estimates that 10,000 survived from Vulcan.

We've no idea how many survived on other planets.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

The Federation is indeed in a lot of trouble if Vulcan was the intellectual center of the Federation. People can lose wars, resources, men, equipment, and land, but when the intellectual core of the country is killed off you are headed for a lot of trouble and fast. Many times ideas are more important than pure technological know-how, and a Federation without any ideas is like no Federation at all.

As if Vulcans are so superior to humans. Different? Yes. Superior? Doubt it. I'd like to believe the intellectual center of the Federation is not Vulcan-centric. And that Andorians are not all warriors. And that Humans aren't all barbaric.

 

[Trekker4747]

The Federation is indeed in a lot of trouble if Vulcan was the intellectual center of the Federation. People can lose wars, resources, men, equipment, and land, but when the intellectual core of the country is killed off you are headed for a lot of trouble and fast. Many times ideas are more important than pure technological know-how, and a Federation without any ideas is like no Federation at all.

As if Vulcans are so superior to humans. Different? Yes. Superior? Doubt it. I'd like to believe the intellectual center of the Federation is not Vulcan-centric. And that Andorians are not all warriors. And that Humans aren't all barbaric.

They're superior in emotional contol and physical strength.

 

[Feofilakt]

The Federation is indeed in a lot of trouble if Vulcan was the intellectual center of the Federation. People can lose wars, resources, men, equipment, and land, but when the intellectual core of the country is killed off you are headed for a lot of trouble and fast. Many times ideas are more important than pure technological know-how, and a Federation without any ideas is like no Federation at all.

As if Vulcans are so superior to humans. Different? Yes. Superior? Doubt it. I'd like to believe the intellectual center of the Federation is not Vulcan-centric. And that Andorians are not all warriors. And that Humans aren't all barbaric.

Not a matter of superiority but intellectual investment in an ideal, a principle, or set of principles. There is no denying a good amount of the intellectual framework of the Federation is possibly Vulcan in origin. Also, the Vulcans are not superior just like the Athenians were not superior, we all know that title belongs to the Thebans

 

[Plecostomus]

In this alternate timeline, Vger will approach Earth in search of its creator . . . and fall into the black hole that swallowed the Narada. Earth is saved!

A decade and a bit later, the Probe will approach Earth in search of whales . . . and fall into the black hole. Earth is saved!

Eventually, someone at Starfleet Command will go "Hmm! I think we might be onto something here . . . "

Almost a century later, a Borg cube will approach Earth to assimilate its population. It will find a giant sign in space proclaiming "WARNING: CONSTRUCTION AHEAD. PLEASE FOLLOW ALTERNATE ROUTE." Being the law-abiding chaps that they are, the Borg will take the recommended diversion . . . and fall into the black hole. Earth is saved!

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

They're superior in emotional contol and physical strength.

I'll give you that. Just as they're inferior in bed.

Not a matter of superiority but intellectual investment in an ideal, a principle, or set of principles. There is no denying a good amount of the intellectual framework of the Federation is possibly Vulcan in origin. Also, the Vulcans are not superior just like the Athenians were not superior, we all know that title belongs to the Thebans

I don't think it's all that clear. We have lots of those ideals floating around on our world already, it's not a large stretch to think some more "enlightened" worldviews will be popular in the future, with or without the Vulcans.

 

[Norrin Radd]

What if the Federation actually comes out stronger?

In the other universe, the Federation never faced such a huge blow to its powerbase. With that having occurred in this universe, it might be more driven to technological advancement and procurement in the military than it was otherwise. Necessity is the mother of invention, after all.

 

[Norrin Radd]

And BTW, we all know that Vulcans are the "intellectual puppets" of the Federation.

 

[Feofilakt]

What if the Federation actually comes out stronger?

In the other universe, the Federation never faced such a huge blow to its powerbase. With that having occurred in this universe, it might be more driven to technological advancement and procurement in the military than it was otherwise. Necessity is the mother of invention, after all.

Just because I burn Athens and piss off the Greeks doesn't mean Corinth, Thebes, and Sparta are going to have their, uhrm... "shit" together enough to do anything but flounder about and fire at the darkness. Destroying the source of ideas -of all peoples- is a crippling, crippling thing. I would implore people to just dip their toes into some Arnold J. Toynbee to get a sense about how important ideas are, especially their source of radiation, to a society.

The Federation without the Vulcan and Vulcans are in deep trouble in the long term.

 

[cwl]

I find it hard to believe only ten thousand Vulcans survived.

Vulcans are a space-faring race- no doubt with other colonies.

there was probly tens of thousands of Vulcans on Earth, without talking of other major planets.

there could be millions of vulcans off-world at the time of vulcans destruction.

the population of vulcan is 6 billion- assuming that only 1 in a thousand vulcans are off-world at any one time-(be that on spaceships, space stations, moons, colonies, planets) that alone is 6 million vulcans.

 

[Heimdall]

.

 

[Heimdall]

Let's not forget as well, what would the message be to the rest of Federation when one of their most important civilizations are utterly destroyed? How much faith do you think the rest of the people are going to have in the Federation when they prove to be so entirely impotent in the face of what amounts to be a single rogue criminal?

 

[Feofilakt]

I find it hard to believe only ten thousand Vulcans survived.

Vulcans are a space-faring race- no doubt with other colonies.

there was probly tens of thousands of Vulcans on Earth, without talking of other major planets.

there could be millions of vulcans off-world at the time of vulcans destruction.

the population of vulcan is 6 billion- assuming that only 1 in a thousand vulcans are off-world at any one time-(be that on spaceships, space stations, moons, colonies, planets) that alone is 6 million vulcans.

Interesting point, and valid as well, if it wasn't for the talk of Spock's kind being endangered and whatnot. We need more concrete numbers as far as the survivor count, but the actual evidence before us only states ten thousand.