The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[Feofilakt]

Saw it today.

This was not Star Trek.

These could have been any characters, in any science fiction setting. There was nothing Star Trek about this movie.

Product placements for Budweiser and Nokia? Give me a fucking break.

I thought there were no more corporations in the Federation

How did they make it through the crippling world war and economic restructuring???

Yeah. And not only that, but how did General Motors, Ford, GE, and others survive World War I AND World War II??

I smell a canon rape..

Corporations don't exist because the Federation's economy is structured along technocratic lines, making it a quasi-communist state.

And WW1 and WW2 were not massive nuclear wars, so that point is irrelevant. I was only making an observation, no reason to get defensive...

 

[Mike Farley]

Listen carefully when you see the film next time. There's a scene in sickbay -- I THINK when McCoy takes over CMO -- that as he heads offscreen, he calls out for Nurse Chapel.

Yes he does! I've seen the movie three times now and can't fucking wait to see it tonight in English for the first time!

AND she responds "Yes, Doctor". I wonder if it was Majel doing that one line?

 

[Borgminister]

I probably shouldn't be posting here.

You see, I've been a nerd all my life. Grew up on Batman comics and Lord of the Rings and Star Wars and eventually William Gibson and Blade Runner and Swamp Thing and Primer and Akira and George R.R. Martin and pretty much every other legendary geek franchise or work, plus many others that weren't even close to being legendary (or, you know, even any good).

But I have never been a Star Trek fan.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate it. I've seen a bunch of episodes of the original series (my dad is a huge fan), and thought them reasonably entertaining television. Same for the Next generation, and Wrath of Khan and First Contact, which are the only movies I've seen. I found them all to be solidly enjoyable (I cannot, however, say the same for whatever the most recent show was, the one with Scott Bakula. Caught like 10 minutes of it and then hastily changed the channel).

But I never got what all the fuss was about. I felt reasonably entertained, but never felt thrilled in my gut. I didn't feel like I simply had to see more, to know more. My dad tried valiantly to indoctrinate me, but failed. I never, ever thought in my life that I would say that a Star Trek movie was one of my favorite films.

That all changed when I saw this movie. I was completely and utterly blown away. I felt like a little kid again. When it was over it felt like the 2 hours had gone by in 15 minutes. I choked up at the sad parts, I thrilled at the excitement, I laughed at the humor. Every single major crew member kicked ass. Simply put, for the first time I got what my dad always tried to make me understand, about the sheer wonder of this universe, and of the brilliance of these characters. Was it flawless in some technical, abstract evaluation of plot and technique? No. Too much lens flare, some forced humor here and there, a forgettable (albeit well-acted) villain. But it was absolutely flawless in the sense that it was a perfect moviegoing experience for me.

I went with my dad (a lifelong fan), my girlfriend (the only scifi she likes are Wall-E, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and Cormac McCarthy's The Road), and a few good friends (all 3 of them geeks, but only 1 a big star trek fan). Every one of us loved it. My dad is so happy, not only that this movie was made for him, but that I like it too, that he can finally share at least a little of this passion of his with me. My girlfriend just couldn't stop saying, "I can't believe how much I liked it".

I am going to see it again. I will buy the DVD. I will see the sequel, and would watch any series they spin out of this. Not only that, but I've decided to give the original Star Trek another try, to see if it finally clicks for me in a way it didn't in my youth. JJ Abrams did what my dad never did--he made me a convert (though I still can't promise I'll watch that Scott Bakula nonsense).

Thank you for that...

 

[DarthPipes]

Listen carefully when you see the film next time. There's a scene in sickbay -- I THINK when McCoy takes over CMO -- that as he heads offscreen, he calls out for Nurse Chapel.

Yes he does! I've seen the movie three times now and can't fucking wait to see it tonight in English for the first time!

AND she responds "Yes, Doctor". I wonder if it was Majel doing that one line?

I did hear that response too.

It would be cool if it were Majel but I doubt it.

 

[Mike Farley]

What makes this an alternate universe as oppose to a severe change in the timeline of this universe? Just because the writers have said it? I'm afraid not mate...

The writers are actually in a very good postion to say what happened in the movie since they wrote it. Fans, people posting on a message board, casual viewers...none of them has any say in what happens in the movie, only the people that made it do. And if the writers say the new movie is an alternate reality and the original reality is still out there untouched then how can we argue with them? It's their story.

And even if it were proven to be an alternate universe, that means one thing, the Star Trek franchise is dead, there is no more of the 'Prime Universe' as you describe it, only this new franchise in what you're describing as an alternate reality.

The "Prime" universe was already dead. The TOS crew are too old to make new movies, The TNG movies are over and done. DS9, VGR, and ENT were never going to return in any form.

 

[Bacl]

Well, Bacl, you are entitled to hate this movie. That is your choice about how you feel about it. However, if your opinion is right, then that means the vast majority of us here on this board are wrong about Star Trek XI.

What the fuck?

Question: Did you like the movie?

Person A: No, I did not like the movie.

Person B: Yes, I liked the movie.

Conclusion: Only one of these two people can be correct???

I did not like the movie. You did. We are both right. I did not realize personal opinion was a matter of majority rule.

Fuck this. "Grade and Discuss" ... So long as you agree with the vast majority. What is the bloody point?

 

[James Bond]

What makes this an alternate universe as oppose to a severe change in the timeline of this universe? Just because the writers have said it? I'm afraid not mate...

The writers are actually in a very good postion to say what happened in the movie since they wrote it. Fans, people posting on a message board, casual viewers...none of them has any say in what happens in the movie, only the people that made it do. And if the writers say the new movie is an alternate reality and the original reality is still out there untouched then how can we argue with them? It's their story.

I just want to quote this in case people glossed over it.

 

[pookha]

These could have been any characters, in any science fiction setting. There was nothing Star Trek about this movie..

Any characters who:

Walk with an arrogant swagger and glance sidelong at attractive women.

Say things like, "dammit, I'm a doctor" and "are you out of your Vulcan mind?!"

Are Russian but, in contrast to the Russian accent, pronounce their "v's" as "w's."

Are fencing aficionados and of Asian decent.

Speak with a heavy Scottish brouge, fancies the liquor and says things like "I've given ya' all she got!"

Are emotionless half-breeds with burst-fits of emotion.

Yep.

These could've been ANY characters.

yeah i went today with enough people we took up a whole row.
and everyone said they did a great job of casting..
that you knew who these people were.

and these were all people like me except for one who grew up
watching first run tos.

 

[cyberengland]

Well, Bacl, you are entitled to hate this movie. That is your choice about how you feel about it. However, if your opinion is right, then that means the vast majority of us here on this board are wrong about Star Trek XI.

What the fuck?

Question: Did you like the movie?

Person A: No, I did not like the movie.

Person B: Yes, I liked the movie.

Conclusion: Only one of these two people can be correct???

I did not like the movie. You did. We are both right. I did not realize personal opinion was a matter of majority rule.

Fuck this. "Grade and Discuss" ... So long as you agree with the vast majority. What is the bloody point?

Hey, if you do not like the movie, thats cool. But to say that its not Star Trek, well to me, when you say that, then you are saying that the rest of us whom like it do not know what we are talking about, in my opinion.

 

[Bacl]

Well, Bacl, you are entitled to hate this movie. That is your choice about how you feel about it. However, if your opinion is right, then that means the vast majority of us here on this board are wrong about Star Trek XI.

What the fuck?

Question: Did you like the movie?

Person A: No, I did not like the movie.

Person B: Yes, I liked the movie.

Conclusion: Only one of these two people can be correct???

I did not like the movie. You did. We are both right. I did not realize personal opinion was a matter of majority rule.

Fuck this. "Grade and Discuss" ... So long as you agree with the vast majority. What is the bloody point?

Hey, if you do not like the movie, thats cool. But to say that its not Star Trek, well to me, when you say that, then you are saying that the rest of us whom like it do not know what we are talking about, in my opinion.

Well, I am sorry if that's how my words came across, but I would never want to say that about you or anyone. I just didn't feel that this movie was Star Trek to me.

For me, Star Trek has always been about ideas, character, conflict, and what it means to be human. It was never about war, for me (again for me) Star Trek was a show about peace, and intellectual curiosity.

For me, this movie was about gunfights, and blowing up planets, and anger. Even Spock seemed angry, and bitter, and even kind of mean.

I always viewed Spock as a man of logic, pacifism, and spiritual calm. He was what we were heading towards as an evolutionary process. Not biological evolution, but mental evolution.

"The human journey is just begining..."

That's what I think of when I think of Star Trek.

I didn't see that in this movie. I'm glad people enjoyed it, but I did not. I just didn't. I'm sorry, but it is how I feel.

 

[Jolantru]

N00B poster here! Greeting all!

I just want to say I FREAKING LOVE THIS MOVIE!!!! I have not loved a Trek film this much since Wrath of Khan.

But I think I might even love this movie more than Khan. Why? Finally we get a Trek movie with a decent budget. As much as I loved Khan, they reused effects shots from ST:TMP, which is just cheap and wrong. But Khan had a great story line.

This movie has a great story, great action, and finally looks like a big budget movie.

I know some folks are having sour grapes about this film. It's too bad that they can't enjoy this movie for what it is, a major ass kicking, blow you out of your mind experience.

Yes this is a reboot, so what? If you want to watch the "cannon", just go out and rent or buy the DVD's, problem solved. I would rather see a good compelling story than to have some super sacred "cannon" preserved.

And for those that don't like the movie... if you don't like it fine, but geez don't act like this is worse than the genocide going on in Darfur. It's just a movie, and as I said, you can always go watch reruns or get the DVD's, or go read some fan fic.

 

[Borgminister]

It was never about war, for me (again for me) Star Trek was a show about peace, and intellectual curiosity.

You must have hated DS9 then.

 

[Bacl]

It was never about war, for me (again for me) Star Trek was a show about peace, and intellectual curiosity.

You must have hated DS9 then.

I loved it, actually, although in the last two seasons the space battles bored me.

However, even when the focus became about the war, it was a very intellectual and character-driven show. But I did prefer the earlier seasons more.

 

[Feofilakt]

It was never about war, for me (again for me) Star Trek was a show about peace, and intellectual curiosity.

You must have hated DS9 then.

I loved it, actually, although in the last two seasons the space battles bored me.

However, even when the focus became about the war, it was a very intellectual and character-driven show. But I did prefer the earlier seasons more.

Bacl has a point, DS9 wasn't exactly Starship Troopers as far as the warfare focus goes.

 

[Broccoli]

I liked it. The casting was perfect and it really carried the film.

The weak point for me was the background premise. Tying it into the original timeline with Nimoy's Spock seemed very forced. I realize that Nero going back in time changed things, but it doesn't explain why everything changed. For example, Nero going back in time somehow made Chekov a super-genius? I think the film would have been smoother if it was a clean break.

Also, Nero was too much of a cardboard cutout. Lots of stuff about him wouldn't make sense unless you read the Countdown comic. Personally, I don't think an average movie-goer should rely on a comic (or any tie-in material) to give them the necessary background on a character needed for the movie.

I could have also done w/o all the ADHD editing and the lens flares. Hopefully, they'll tone that down for the next one.

Again, I liked the movie and thought it did the job it set out to do. My issues are very minor, I admit, but I would like to see the movie again in order to better refine my thoughts about it.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

I realize that Nero going back in time changed things, but it doesn't explain why everything changed. For example, Nero going back in time somehow made Chekov a super-genius?

Nero and Spock didn't go back in time as much was they went backward and sideways. They entered another universe. Nero's actions did influence some events but not all. And Chekov was always very intelligent. He frequently manned the science station in Spock's absence. But yes, any differences in the two Chekovs would be inherent differences in the two universes, not from anything Nero did.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I just accept that they took some creative liberties while taking us back.

 

[startrekwatcher]

It's too bad that they can't enjoy this movie for what it is, a major ass kicking, blow you out of your mind experience.

Like I've said my issues have nothing to do with the writers supposedly raping one's childhood by altering the timeline or with the lack of social commentary.

I can easily enjoy a rip-roaring action adventure film replete with all variety of explosions and battles. However, I prefer the plot to hold together. When I first watched the film so much is going on that while I saw some problems I really didn't see the deficiencies in the film to the degree I did later because everything is moving so fast, maybe too fast. But once you see the film again or you sit back and try to make sense of all the stuff in the film and actually analyze the story the film really starts to have problems. Maybe the writers thought that with the whirlwind of events that occur in the film that you wouldn't catch on but I like to examine the story especially when it comes to these films or tv series that go out of their way to cover a lot of ground as it tends to be the preferred style these days. Having the plot make sense or providing the villian with plausible understandable motivations isn't being nitpicky.

I personally think Trek works better as a tv series. Most of the time after seeing a Trek film I leave not completely satisfied. The last one that really worked was Star Trek 6. This film is okay. It's not the best Trek film ever. It has issues that prevented me from being completely engrossed in the film as it unfolded. It's entertaining on a superficial level but it has its issues.

I think once all this initial excitement dies down I think you'll start hearing fans altering their tune with regards to the praise that they are currently heaping on it because it is far from perfect and from "excellent".

 

[Enterpriserules]

First off, I like it, it is great.

I did not like engineering. The movie made it clear that the timeline does not diverge until the Kevin, so why does the new engineering look like a waste facility? Trip's Eng looks so advanced compared to the new ENT. The bridge looks like the Apple store and Eng looks like a PC. I just did not get it. Can warp plasma really travel through basic sewage pipe? It also seemed weird that the view screen that Archer had was easier to see things on and much clearer picture. Maybe they lost HD technology before they built the Kelvin. It looks kind of ridiculous. I also still do not like the look of the outside of the new Enterprise. It lack any of the fluidity and beautiful lines of the original and the refit. I also did not like the uniforms on the Kelvin. They should have been a cross between ENT and TOS, but they looked like more of a TNG alternate universe uniform.

I did like all the actors, great cast. Just wish that some of the design had been better; because some of it was bang on.

 

[Capt. Vulcan]

Gave it an excellent. Not perfect and some story stuff doesn't make sense but it was entertaining enough for me to overlook and still give an excellent. Theater was packed when I saw it, and I know about ten people who had never seen trek that went to watch it and loved it.