Timelines, reality,star trek, canon, and the Truth!

[hal9500]

OK!

Ive posted a few Comments and ideas over the last while and have been consistently attacked as being the reason why star trek fans are hated and laughed at.. Its fans like me who allowed star trek to die apparently..

Right so over thirty years of being a fan, owning every released box set, DVD, VHS, tonnes of models uniforms, books, magazines, toys, games, encyclopedias, etc was clearly decremental to the continuing advancement of the star trek franchise..(Add to that paying big bucks to attend fan gatherings, conventions, and midnight screenings of every release since star trek the motion picture - Except ONE! Have a guess which...)

(Note: If your planning to insult me by claiming i have no life... Know that im happily Married, with children. Why am i posting here... Because I care, and i can)

So You have all accepted this new trek as being the way forward... Good for you...

But let me point out this... There exists a star trek timeline or reality if you prefer that word that started in 1966 and ended 20 Seconds in to the film you all love which opened last week... The operative word being ... ENDED!

One time line: Examples of this are in every version of star trek, in case you cant remember here is a list which i have drawn up. A list of instances in which someone or something upset that timeline, and thankfully our heroes FIXED. In some instances they did it by changing the proper run of things (VOY:TIMELESS - Ok technically that is one where they broke the rules to save the crew.... ONE CREW! SO WHAT!) But most instances involved fixing the timeline for the better:

TOS
City on the edge of forever
ST:IV Voyage Home


TNG
Yesterdays Enterprise
Cause and effect
Times Arrow
Tapestry
ST:VII Generations
ST:VIII First Contact (Thats a big one isnt it!)

DS9
Past tense
Visionary
The visitor
Little Green Men

VOY
Relativity
Timeless
Futures End
Endgame
Year of hell

Now, these instances whether good bad or indifferent all have a common thread... Either changes to the timeline were small enough not to upset said timeline (Tribbles in DS9 - gotta love it!) -or- There were no changes at all ie Timline restored....

SO! JJ Abrams comes along and tells us this is an alternate reality... BUT Created by a charactor form the Real Reality.... No. Sorry folks thats not the case...

This is like first contact without the enterprise going back and fixing it,

This is like Year of hell where the weapons ship wins and Voyager is erased.

This is like City on the edge of forever, where the good guys dont go back and fix things.

This time line is the same one as always but because of nero its been altered so NONE OF THE OTHER SERIES EXIST! There time line is redundant, IE GONE!

If your going to point out instance where other universes are said to exist fine... Im ok with that! But those Universes exist aside from ours with no link. This trek reality is whole and has been irevocably altered with the destruction of Vulcan... And why? Why was it necessary? Why did they need to destroy a pillar of the federation?

Answer: They didnt need to, the did it anyway...

If you accept this fair enough but i dont... And im entitled to my opinion, and im not going anywhere.

But please dont delude yourself into thinking that all the other episodes still exist... they have been erased..

As for my comments in a similar thread about remakes being an excuse for poor writing... i stand by it, and il add this. Not only poor writing, but laziness. Starting a new franchise is hard work, and they dont like hard work... better to find a franchise that exists and , i dunno, say.. PISS ALL OVER IT... Typical.

 

[What's his face]

But please dont delude yourself into thinking that all the other episodes still exist... they have been erased..

You're right! I looked it up on wikipedia and all of Star Trek has been erased! Thanks to JJ we can't watch the old episodes anymore.

JJ ABRAMS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!!

 

[hal9500]

But please dont delude yourself into thinking that all the other episodes still exist... they have been erased..

You're right! I looked it up on wikipedia and all of Star Trek has been erased! Thanks to JJ we can't watch the old episodes anymore.

JJ ABRAMS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!!

I knew someone would get it!
Lol Very Funny!

 

[T'Paul]

OK!
TOS
City on the edge of forever
ST:IV Voyage Home


TNG
Yesterdays Enterprise
Cause and effect
Times Arrow
Tapestry
ST:VII Generations
ST:VIII First Contact (Thats a big one isnt it!)

DS9
Past tense
Visionary
The visitor
Little Green Men

VOY
Relativity
Timeless
Futures End
Endgame
Year of hell

Only the ones where they go back to before the Nero/Kelvin incident matter to the new timeline.

However, if at any point anyone in the original timeline travels back in time to before Romulus is destroyed they can warn them. They could use the portal from "City on the Edge of Forever" for that.

 

[Chip]

ICAM. What surprised me more about this film was not so much they screwed it up, but the number of Star Trek fans who liked this screwed up film!

 

[Amaris]

But please dont delude yourself into thinking that all the other episodes still exist... they have been erased..

You're right! I looked it up on wikipedia and all of Star Trek has been erased! Thanks to JJ we can't watch the old episodes anymore.

JJ ABRAMS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!!

I knew someone would get it!
Lol Very Funny!

He's making a point. You're upset that with 40 years, 5 series, 10 movies and 715 episodes, Star Trek has to change up a little bit. Think about that. You can keep every DVD, book and piece of memorabilia, and it won't fade away or disappear.

J.

 

[hal9500]

OK!
TOS
City on the edge of forever
ST:IV Voyage Home


TNG
Yesterdays Enterprise
Cause and effect
Times Arrow
Tapestry
ST:VII Generations
ST:VIII First Contact (Thats a big one isnt it!)

DS9
Past tense
Visionary
The visitor
Little Green Men

VOY
Relativity
Timeless
Futures End
Endgame
Year of hell

Only the ones where they go back to before the Nero/Kelvin incident matter to the new timeline.

However, if at any point anyone in the original timeline travels back in time to before Romulus is destroyed they can warn them. They could use the portal from "City on the Edge of Forever" for that.

Fair point mate, i agree but there not gonna do that, there will be no Vger, City on the edge, its rebooted. Why bother... Besides if they did that they might loose there amazingly brilliant new fan base of Non Star Trek, Fans!

 

[What's his face]

You're going on like none of the other shows ever happened (they didn't, of course, as it's just TV) but what is stopping you from watching re-runs on tv or getting the DVD of Wrath of Khan?

You're acting like they just got rid of all of Star Trek. It's still there. This movie, whether you liked it or not (and it's clear that you and people like you decided months ago that you were going to hate the movie) doesn't change anything.

 

[hal9500]

You're right! I looked it up on wikipedia and all of Star Trek has been erased! Thanks to JJ we can't watch the old episodes anymore.

JJ ABRAMS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!!

I knew someone would get it!
Lol Very Funny!

He's making a point. You're upset that with 40 years, 5 series, 10 movies and 715 episodes, Star Trek has to change up a little bit. Think about that. You can keep every DVD, book and piece of memorabilia, and it won't fade away or disappear.

J.

My point is why does it have to rebbot at all... Its a big universe... They didnt have to do it at all, But to come up with a new story and leave the existing timeline alone would have been to much effort for JJ! (He has lost to think about, and a giant crab monster thing attacking people with camcordors, Hes Busy!)

 

[Chip]

Actually, I didn't make up my mind until after I saw the movie. I wanted to give it a chance and I didn't even read any of the spoilers. It was only after that, that I decided the movie really, really sucked!

 

[RevdKathy]

You know something? Time travel is probably impossible. Human beings have never yet achieved it. We don't know it's possible. The result is the whole idea that there can be 'alternate timelines' is all speculation. It's quite possible that the universe is unfolding in a comletely necessary fashion, and we can't change a quark of it.

Consequently, stories that involve time travel and alternate realities/timelines are fiction. A fiction in which the writer can, to a degree, write the rules.

So if JJ wants to make the story so that 'my' Trek remains in one timeline, while he can go play with a whole new timeline unencumbered by the behemoth that 40 odd years of Trek canon had become, he can.

Until we've achieved backwards time travel and established what actually happens if you 'change history', (if you can) Abram's theory is as good as yours. Only his is more fun.

 

[daedalus5]

ICAM. What surprised me more about this film was not so much they screwed it up, but the number of Star Trek fans who liked this screwed up film!

I know. I'm amazed at myself for really liking this film, despite all the continuity/canon disparity involved. Its just pigeon-holed in my head as an alternative reality Star Trek (and a bloody good one at that!).

 

[hal9500]

You're going on like none of the other shows ever happened (they didn't, of course, as it's just TV) but what is stopping you from watching re-runs on tv or getting the DVD of Wrath of Khan?

You're acting like they just got rid of all of Star Trek. It's still there. This movie, whether you liked it or not (and it's clear that you and people like you decided months ago that you were going to hate the movie) doesn't change anything.

I was looking forward to this fil;m mate, unitil it leaked that... as opposed to a prequel, its a reboot!

Its the idea that the rest of trekdom has been affected by it that winds me up.... Does anyone get that? Honestly, im not setting out to star an argument. Its sunday, im chilling before work tomorrow, so.. lets have a natter!

 

[Amaris]

My point is why does it have to rebbot at all... Its a big universe... They didnt have to do it at all, But to come up with a new story and leave the existing timeline alone would have been to much effort for JJ! (He has lost to think about, and a giant crab monster thing attacking people with camcordors, Hes Busy!)

Too much effort? If anything, this movie required more effort than a run of the mill Star Trek movie. New cast, new situation, new everything, and he had to make it gel, to be Star Trek in heart and spirit, and he succeeded. Whether you like it or not, this movie is a success, and there are fans young and old, new Trek fans, old Trek fans, and converts who will now be with us along the way, who love this movie.

J.

 

[hal9500]

Actually, I didn't make up my mind until after I saw the movie. I wanted to give it a chance and I didn't even read any of the spoilers. It was only after that, that I decided the movie really, really sucked!

At Last... Someone else!

 

[Oso Blanco]

As for my comments in a similar thread about remakes being an excuse for poor writing... i stand by it, and il add this. Not only poor writing, but laziness. Starting a new franchise is hard work, and they dont like hard work... better to find a franchise that exists and , i dunno, say.. PISS ALL OVER IT... Typical.

I completely agree. Although I must admit that I like the way they explained the reboot with changes in the timeline. This way the changes are at least being acknowledged.

 

[T'Paul]

I thought that other than the canon violations and the gaping plot holes the movie was really good.

 

[hal9500]

My point is why does it have to rebbot at all... Its a big universe... They didnt have to do it at all, But to come up with a new story and leave the existing timeline alone would have been to much effort for JJ! (He has lost to think about, and a giant crab monster thing attacking people with camcordors, Hes Busy!)

I understand evryone is happy that star trek is back, but answer this... Say there was a TV Series on at the moment, based in the 24th Century... How would we feel then?

 

[What's his face]

If you guys are all worked up about the movie violating canon or whatever, here's what you do:

Don't count the movie.

It's as easy as that. If you don't like the movie, don't count it.

Star Trek isn't the Catholic Church. You don't need an old man with a funny hat telling you what is canon and what isn't. Star Trek is ours to do with what we want. If you guys don't like the new movie then don't get all worked up about it - just ignore it.

 

[CinC_UFPForces]

It's been my experience in these few, short days since Star Trek came to general release, that the people who tend to insist that the movie represents not an alternate timeline but an altered timeline have been those who dislike the movie. I offer this admittedly anecdotal correlation without comment.

As it was, I was surprised in regards to the extent which Star Trek went to ensure that it was absolutely clear that the events of the rest of the canon remains, in its entirety, intact. It seems to me that there's very little room for actual debate on that point, given the film's exposition on the matter.