Timelines, reality,star trek, canon, and the Truth!

[Thinkey]

How about everyone consider 'the more things change...the more they stay the same" ?

I would think that from this point on over the next 2-300 years in trek universe, the timeline that you think is so wiped out now is not going to look too much different than the one you already seen since the key players are still, in the end, in the same place they were to originally.

95%+ of the st universe, if not more, will remain intact. The borg is still out there in its same form, the cardassians, the dominion, the delta quadrant....and lets face facts, ultimately just probably means that Jean Luc picard will have hair because he may have a different mother and seven of nine may be a dude played by the same dude that played Edward off of Twilight lol.

Long story short. This changes the faces, but not the overall storyline of the federation - face facts - how big of a story did vulcan really play anyways? Considering it pushes the vulcans of the time to be more in touch with their emotions, this may just may mean a better friendship with the romulans since that is what they are about. So the romulans will not side with the dominion in the war at first, therefore the war becomes 3 months shorter than in our timeline?

The war will still happen tho, get the point? The borg will still attack, Q will still be around to annoy someone...

I think the idea of telling similiar stories, with new twists could be the ultimate power here. What if they went left, instead of right? That kinda deal.

Keep an open mind about this folks

 

[Kemaiku]

^There is also the fact that both Guinan and Q state in Q Who? and Voyager that the Federation should not have made it to the Delta Quadrant and met the Borg head on until the 2460's, not the 2360's. Q himself stated he'd changed the course of events. That, First Contact and Endgame showed alterations that went unrepaired. Sela also was not meant to happen but did due to Yesterdays Enterprise. So yeah the timeline is fucked, but I still like the older less JJ'd version of events.

 

[Thinkey]

^There is also the fact that both Guinan and Q state in Q Who? and Voyager that the Federation should not have made it to the Delta Quadrant and met the Borg head on until the 2460's, not the 2360's. Q himself stated he'd changed the course of events. That, First Contact and Endgame showed alterations that went unrepaired. Sela also was not meant to happen but did due to Yesterdays Enterprise. So yeah the timeline is fucked, but I still like the older less JJ'd version of events.

And with that being said? Q could drop by in the next movie and say "Jee I don't like this timeline" click a finger and we're back to normal.

Seriousely, don't loose sleep over it lol

 

[barnaclelapse]

Makes sense to me.

So, even though the original universe, the one we know and love can theoretically go on with new stories, new adventures, it's more likely than not that the bulk of the creative direction towards the franchise (at least, as far as films go) will be pointed towards this alternate universe/timeline that's been created.

Basically, to my understanding, the original timeline will go on into the 25th/26th/784th century with everything before it just as we've come to know it.

Right?

If that's so, then what's the bloody problem?

I'm not much for J.J. Abrams (not much for Lost and Cloverfield was just kind of average), but it seems to me that he went to some pretty decent lengths to make things open to whatever viewpoint you want to have. If you want two universes, fine. If you want just one, then that's fine, too.

 

[What's his face]

If that's so, then what's the bloody problem?

Some people just need to find something to get upset over.

 

[barnaclelapse]

Well, I'll admit, the idea that the universe I grew up had been erased bothered me a little at first. Granted, it's a fictional universe (so far as I know), but it's still one I'm quite attached to in that sad-bastard, fan boy sort of way.

So, I checked around, read the viewpoints and that kind of helped me cement my own opinion (which I stated above) of the movie and its implications for everything we've had so far.

 

[hal9500]

Makes sense to me.

So, even though the original universe, the one we know and love can theoretically go on with new stories, new adventures, it's more likely than not that the bulk of the creative direction towards the franchise (at least, as far as films go) will be pointed towards this alternate universe/timeline that's been created.

Basically, to my understanding, the original timeline will go on into the 25th/26th/784th century with everything before it just as we've come to know it.

Right?

If that's so, then what's the bloody problem?

I'm not much for J.J. Abrams (not much for Lost and Cloverfield was just kind of average), but it seems to me that he went to some pretty decent lengths to make things open to whatever viewpoint you want to have. If you want two universes, fine. If you want just one, then that's fine, too.

The "Bloody problem" it doesnt go on. Reality was changed. TNG, DS9, VOY, even TOS exists on a redundant timeline.... Is there no one here, regardless of whether you love JJ Trek, or not that will just admit that... REDUNDANT TIMELINE.... NOT ALTERNATE UNIVERSE, The old timeline NO LONGER EXISTS or are you all living in denial... it hurts me to think of this fact but it doesnt stop me thinking of it

 

[CommanderRaytas]

We can't admit that because it's not true, simple as that. Of course it still exists, it's just not the one JJ has introduced us to. Face it: he could, he did, and it's marvellous to our eyes.

Doing what he did was bold and is probably going to pay off big time. Kudos to him.

 

[hal9500]

^There is also the fact that both Guinan and Q state in Q Who? and Voyager that the Federation should not have made it to the Delta Quadrant and met the Borg head on until the 2460's, not the 2360's. Q himself stated he'd changed the course of events. That, First Contact and Endgame showed alterations that went unrepaired. Sela also was not meant to happen but did due to Yesterdays Enterprise. So yeah the timeline is fucked, but I still like the older less JJ'd version of events.

The episodes you mentioned had subtle but granted real changes to the timeline, but there effects only minorly altered the course of history...

THE DESTRUCTION OF A PLANET THAT IS A CONOR STONE OF THE FEDERATION IS A BLOODY BIG ALTERATION!!!!!!!!!!!

Everything that came after this point is altered.....

 

[hal9500]

We can't admit that because it's not true, simple as that. Of course it still exists, it's just not the one JJ has introduced us to. Face it: he could, he did, and it's marvellous to our eyes.

Doing what he did was bold and is probably going to pay off big time. Kudos to him.

PAY OFF IN A BIG WAY!

You Said it.... They pissed all over star trek, Destroyed its timeline, to make money and make up for the fact that there about as creative as a monkey with a crayon set

What about loyalty to fans, what about loyalty to the millions who buy box sets, and other merchandise...

REBOOT! Sorry folks, your show isnt good enough, there isnt enough action nudity, sex scenes, and car chases in it,
We need it to appeal to a wider audience,

Whats next?
Reboot X MEN, .... star wars.... You know what BSG was very popular... lets reboot that, Because we cant be bothered writing anything original,

You want original, hang on give me a second... People on an island, wait for it.... theyre... eh ... stranded? There thats never been done before.. Brilliant....

 

[barnaclelapse]

Makes sense to me.

So, even though the original universe, the one we know and love can theoretically go on with new stories, new adventures, it's more likely than not that the bulk of the creative direction towards the franchise (at least, as far as films go) will be pointed towards this alternate universe/timeline that's been created.

Basically, to my understanding, the original timeline will go on into the 25th/26th/784th century with everything before it just as we've come to know it.

Right?

If that's so, then what's the bloody problem?

I'm not much for J.J. Abrams (not much for Lost and Cloverfield was just kind of average), but it seems to me that he went to some pretty decent lengths to make things open to whatever viewpoint you want to have. If you want two universes, fine. If you want just one, then that's fine, too.

The "Bloody problem" it doesnt go on. Reality was changed. TNG, DS9, VOY, even TOS exists on a redundant timeline.... Is there no one here, regardless of whether you love JJ Trek, or not that will just admit that... REDUNDANT TIMELINE.... NOT ALTERNATE UNIVERSE, The old timeline NO LONGER EXISTS or are you all living in denial... it hurts me to think of this fact but it doesnt stop me thinking of it

You know, I lived the great cliche by doing a remarkable amount of drugs when watching 2001, but I really don't remember HAL being such a jerk-ass.

I don't know. I might have just missed some subtle nuance of the film.

Reading this, I'm half-expecting you to start link Abrams to JFK.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I think they're creative enough.... enough to make a huge crowd very happy for two hours. Enough to make millions of people think it was worth paying for that ticket.

Enough to make me happy I'm a Trekkie again. So do I wish that this film makes JJ and his colleagues even richer than they already are? You betcha.

 

[Freman]

It's been my experience in these few, short days since Star Trek came to general release, that the people who tend to insist that the movie represents not an alternate timeline but an altered timeline have been those who dislike the movie. I offer this admittedly anecdotal correlation without comment.

As it was, I was surprised in regards to the extent which Star Trek went to ensure that it was absolutely clear that the events of the rest of the canon remains, in its entirety, intact. It seems to me that there's very little room for actual debate on that point, given the film's exposition on the matter.

Nero in the true universe went back in time and changes things... In exactly the way that the borg went back and assimilated earth .. except no one stopped Nero from doing it - Therefore ALTERED!!!!!

Except it didn't alter the main timeline, it split off from it, making a divergent, ALTERNATE timeline. The original timeline continued the way it did it TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY etc etc.

Why are ppl having problems understanding this?

 

[RoJoHen]

The fact that Old Spock and Nero exist at all proves that the original timeline is intact. If it weren't, they would never have been able to travel back in time in the first place.

We could still have a 25th Century story take place in the original timeline. The only difference would be that Spock and Nero aren't there anymore.

 

[barnaclelapse]

Shut up! Stop making sense!

You monster!

 

[RoJoHen]

Never!

 

[hal9500]

Makes sense to me.

So, even though the original universe, the one we know and love can theoretically go on with new stories, new adventures, it's more likely than not that the bulk of the creative direction towards the franchise (at least, as far as films go) will be pointed towards this alternate universe/timeline that's been created.

Basically, to my understanding, the original timeline will go on into the 25th/26th/784th century with everything before it just as we've come to know it.

Right?

If that's so, then what's the bloody problem?

I'm not much for J.J. Abrams (not much for Lost and Cloverfield was just kind of average), but it seems to me that he went to some pretty decent lengths to make things open to whatever viewpoint you want to have. If you want two universes, fine. If you want just one, then that's fine, too.

The "Bloody problem" it doesnt go on. Reality was changed. TNG, DS9, VOY, even TOS exists on a redundant timeline.... Is there no one here, regardless of whether you love JJ Trek, or not that will just admit that... REDUNDANT TIMELINE.... NOT ALTERNATE UNIVERSE, The old timeline NO LONGER EXISTS or are you all living in denial... it hurts me to think of this fact but it doesnt stop me thinking of it

You know, I lived the great cliche by doing a remarkable amount of drugs when watching 2001, but I really don't remember HAL being such a jerk-ass.

I don't know. I might have just missed some subtle nuance of the film.

Reading this, I'm half-expecting you to start link Abrams to JFK.

Well We can fix that... Lets re do 2001! Brilliant why didnt i think of that!!!!!
There was no nudity in that film... or car chases, or action... Let re do it! This time we could have Hal being a female robot, played by Jessica Alba, who instead of just metaphorically F****** the crew, literally does it!!
IT WILL APPEAL TO A WIDER AUDIENCE

AND BLADE RUNNER! There was sod all nudity, in that.... it was all just boring stuff like brilliant writing, metaphores, true Sci Fi...

We can re do it, and have the replicants all played by Jennifer aniston! It will appeal to a wider audience.... I mean who cares.... All were doing is PISSING OVER A GREAT CREATIVE WORK FOR MONEY ... BECAUSE WERE CRAP WRITERS!!!

And as for JFK, well who knows!!! lol

 

[hal9500]

It's been my experience in these few, short days since Star Trek came to general release, that the people who tend to insist that the movie represents not an alternate timeline but an altered timeline have been those who dislike the movie. I offer this admittedly anecdotal correlation without comment.

As it was, I was surprised in regards to the extent which Star Trek went to ensure that it was absolutely clear that the events of the rest of the canon remains, in its entirety, intact. It seems to me that there's very little room for actual debate on that point, given the film's exposition on the matter.

Nero in the true universe went back in time and changes things... In exactly the way that the borg went back and assimilated earth .. except no one stopped Nero from doing it - Therefore ALTERED!!!!!

Except it didn't alter the main timeline, it split off from it, making a divergent, ALTERNATE timeline. The original timeline continued the way it did it TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY etc etc.

Why are ppl having problems understanding this?

Sorry i hate to break it to you, but it didnt.... Have you actually seen year of hell, or first contact?

 

[CommanderRaytas]

There wasn't any nudity in Trek. And what exactly was so crappy about the writing, anyway? I'd like some facts.

 

[hal9500]

There wasn't any nudity in Trek. And what exactly was so crappy about the writing, anyway? I'd like some facts.

There is a whole thread of plot holes... Im not the only one who spotted them