The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[pookha]

as for social commentary there is the very basic theme that no matter how bad were the circumstances you came from one can over come them to become something greater.

in a lot of ways it has been one of the basic themes of trek through the ages.
throw in the one about people can over come their differences and become something greater through working toward a greater goal and you have the other great basic trek theme.

 

[jazzstick]

uh because he also used to be a scientist..
because that combined with his being a diplomat and long term interaction with the romulans made him unique for the task.

So why would such a valuable person be used to do something so dangerous other than to get him in a alternate universe, do you see how shitty the writing is!

Marie and Pierre Curie.

J.

Come on dude stay on topic just because the Curies discovered Radium does'nt make up for the shitty writing in this movie!

 

[jazzstick]

as for social commentary there is the very basic theme that no matter how bad were the circumstances you came from one can over come them to become something greater.

in a lot of ways it has been one of the basic themes of trek through the ages.
throw in the one about people can over come their differences and become something greater through working toward a greater goal and you have the other great basic trek theme.

I think the theme is really, no matter how well developed and good something is, theirs always some cynical bastard who is willing to pervert it to appeal to the masses and make a quick buck in the process!

 

[Borgminister]

My one issue with the script is how neatly everyone falls into place by the end of the movie. While it strains credibility, the nature of the movie and just how fun a ride it is makes it easy to forgive this minor nitpick.

I agree, but still loved to see the fully realized crew on deck ready for their first mission.

Which looks more and more likely to be upcoming...

Star Trek is back!

Indeed....

Great review, by the way...

 

[Borgminister]

as for social commentary there is the very basic theme that no matter how bad were the circumstances you came from one can over come them to become something greater.

in a lot of ways it has been one of the basic themes of trek through the ages.
throw in the one about people can over come their differences and become something greater through working toward a greater goal and you have the other great basic trek theme.

I think the theme is really, no matter how well developed and good something is, theirs always some cynical bastard who is willing to pervert it

Now don't be so hard on y--

to appeal to the masses and make a quick buck in the process!

Oh. Never mind.

 

[jazzstick]

as for social commentary there is the very basic theme that no matter how bad were the circumstances you came from one can over come them to become something greater.

in a lot of ways it has been one of the basic themes of trek through the ages.
throw in the one about people can over come their differences and become something greater through working toward a greater goal and you have the other great basic trek theme.

I think the theme is really, no matter how well developed and good something is, theirs always some cynical bastard who is willing to pervert it

Now don't be so hard on y--

to appeal to the masses and make a quick buck in the process!

Oh. Never mind.

I'm not the cynic, the cynics are the ones that know their destorying something good and worth while because they can make a ton of money!

 

[Borgminister]

I think the theme is really, no matter how well developed and good something is, theirs always some cynical bastard who is willing to pervert it

Now don't be so hard on y--

to appeal to the masses and make a quick buck in the process!

Oh. Never mind.

I'm not the cynic, the cynics are the ones that know their destorying something good and worth while because they can make a ton of money!

1. I don't think they are destroying, they are resurrecting.
2. Nothing wrong with making money.

 

[Amaris]

So why would such a valuable person be used to do something so dangerous other than to get him in a alternate universe, do you see how shitty the writing is!

Marie and Pierre Curie.

J.

Come on dude stay on topic just because the Curies discovered Radium does'nt make up for the shitty writing in this movie!

Marie and Pierre Curie were always in danger, yet they were scientists.
Consider Jonas Salk or Louis Pasteur, men who were scientists yet stood in the face of danger to save lives. What you consider poor writing is only another example of history, one that really does exist.

J.

 

[jazzstick]

Now don't be so hard on y--

Oh. Never mind.

I'm not the cynic, the cynics are the ones that know their destorying something good and worth while because they can make a ton of money!

1. I don't think they are destroying, they are resurrecting.
2. Nothing wrong with making money.

Wow! You've proved my point!

 

[CommodoreKong]

My Dad and I went and saw Star Trek together yesterday. He's a long time Star Trek fan and is more casual of a fan then I am. Neither of us knew anything about the movie besides what we saw in the trailers and and we both really liked it.

We both thought the new actors did a really great job. I was especially impressed by Zachary Quinto and Simon Pegg, both did outstanding work.

While the plot did seem to have a few holes I could nitpick, for the most part it was really enjoyable and very fast paced. I really liked how they created a separate continuity and destroyed Vulcan, it was a bold move and I can't wait to see how it affects future movies and TV shows set in this continuity.

My major disappointment was that we never got to see any big fleet battles, I was hoping to see the small Federation fleet attack the Romulan ship or even have the big fleet come in at the end and help the Enterprise destroy the ship. Oh well, I guess we always have future movies for that kind of stuff.

 

[Tom Servo]

Who says Kirk doesn't have things to learn? Also, isn't a lot of the fleet destroyed by Nemo? Captains are at a premium. This is how Spock and Bones will help Kirk in his command decisions.

No, actually the only Starfleet ships Nero destroyed were six of the seven sent from Earth to Vulcan, apparently crewed mostly by cadets. The rest of Starfleet is still intact, somewhere in or around the conveniently distant Laurentian system.

You know, everyone I know who's seen the movie, fan and not-already-fan, has done plenty of thinking and talking about this movie and its themes.

Really? I've seen lots of talking about plot and acting and continuity, and even a little about emotional impact (the way it celebrates family and friendship). But actual themes? Pretty much zilch. What do you think they were?


I honestly have no idea what you're getting at. TWOK was a better film by far, yes, and did have actual themes underlying the story... although calling it "deep" might be overstating the case. But what is there about it that you think wouldn't work today? Specifically? You seem to have a hypothesis here about how storytelling styles and/or audience tastes have changed in the last 27 years, but I just don't see evidence for it.

Heck, just look at X-Men and X2. Recent, big-budget adventure films with fancy special effects, yes... but still with stories built around serious social commentary, and a sense of gravitas that this film lacked. (As did X-Men 3, sadly. But I digress.)

Not to be snarky, but why should I care? I like what I like (books, TV, movies, whatever) for reasons of my own. How does it affect my experience one iota whether or not people previously unfamiliar with the material choose to like it?

Or, as another poster put it quite succinctly:

Exactly.

No, but it's a problem when someone thinks that if someone enjoyed a film for other reasons, or that that maybe the point of the film was not to be intelligent trek, but a fun ass movie, that they are somehow inferior and "drinking the koolade". I respond to April with venom because he presents his views with a condescending tone, and bitches just to bitch...

The Kool-Aid line really seems to have gotten under your skin. Don't know why, and don't care to speculate. FWIW, though, to whatever extent it's true that "the point of the film was not to be intelligent Trek," then IMHO that is a problem. If you don't see it as one, then Kool-Aid or no, at the very least you're one of those folks who (as I wrote upthread) somehow manage to like Trek without actually valuing what's best about it.

I love this though. The fact that people are destroying this film because it was not intelligent enough for them. What was so intelligent about TWOK? Or TVH? Or FC? Those three films are the most successful of the bunch, but they are also the most fun, just like this film.

I won't defend FC except as being the best of the TNG-era films, which is definitely damning with faint praise. But as for the others? If you have to ask, I suspect you wouldn't understand. Long story short, they were more intelligent because the writers wrote them that way, so that audiences could watch them without having their own intelligence insulted. Hell, Trekker4747 considers TWOK downright "deep." If you want to delve into details, that's probably fodder for a different thread.

See this is the problem, I get the messages behind TWOK and TVH, but I guess if I didn't get them, I wouldn't understand according to you. Well it seems that you can't understand the message behind this film because it's right out there in your face the whole time. It's about loyalty, friendship and becoming who you were truly meant to be, and how event's around us shape our lives in ways we could not possibly imagine. There is a message there, a great one, and I'm sorry you can't see it.

May I ask how did this film INSULT YOUR INTELLIGENCE? What did it do to slap you in the face? Honestly, there was nothing in this film that films like TWOK and TVH didn't have as well. A torpedo that can instantaneously give life to a planet? Spock mind melding a whale? My intelligence is so insulted right know you won't even believe.

 

[Tom Servo]

I'm not the cynic, the cynics are the ones that know their destorying something good and worth while because they can make a ton of money!

1. I don't think they are destroying, they are resurrecting.
2. Nothing wrong with making money.

Wow! You've proved my point!

You don't have one.

You don't like this film, then fine, break out some TOS series DVDs and go to town. Because guess what bub, this film was the only way this franchise was gonna be saved, and it seems to have done exactly that, and oh yeah, we seem to have gotten a great film out of it as well.

 

[Borgminister]

I'm not the cynic, the cynics are the ones that know their destorying something good and worth while because they can make a ton of money!

1. I don't think they are destroying, they are resurrecting.
2. Nothing wrong with making money.

Wow! You've proved my point!

Glad I could help.

 

[Cyke101]

I'm not the cynic, the cynics are the ones that know their destorying something good and worth while because they can make a ton of money!

1. I don't think they are destroying, they are resurrecting.
2. Nothing wrong with making money.

Wow! You've proved my point!

Please explain to me just how Paramount was going to make a Trek film out of charity and not out of profit. For that matter, please explain to me why Paramount sustained the Trek franchise for over 40 years. Here's a hint: it certainly wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts, bud. The seasonal budget for all the spinoffs was easily in the seven figures.

"To not like it would make them dickheads." --Nimoy on SNL. Bless him

Anyway, here's my review, posted on another board:

The entire Kelvin sequence was more epic than all but two of the previous Trek movies.

Heck, that's one positive problem I have with the movie: it's almost too epic, and while normally that's not a bad thing, I have something of a hard time thinking that this is the same crew who lost the ship to space hippies. Twice. (The movie makes it pretty clear that even though it's a new timeline and different technology, our Big 7 heroes have pretty much the same personalities and same traits that make them heroes in the first place).

But anyway, not the most complex or deepest Trek movie out there, and once again the film continues the trend for Trek to be more about fighting than actually going where no man has gone before, but it's a fun movie and you never notice the time flying by.

Surprises:

Amanda Grayson! NOOO!!! I think she's she only TOS character to actually die in this movie. The audience around me gasped.

Also, with all the references to the other movies, when the drill rig falls in the Bay, I half expected someone to yell out that the last of Earth's humpback whales were killed.

Uhura plays an integral role in a any Trek. Anyone remember STIII, when she was gone for 90% of the flick? Woo hoo!

Additionally, Sulu's sword fight, logistics be damned, was fantastic. We always knew he had what it took to be great. After all, he did eventually get the Excelsior. Aside from Kirk, he was probably the most dashing of the bunch.

And while not really a surprise, how great is it to see Pike and Kirk working together, albeit briefly?

I'm sure I'll have more complaints later, either when I think of them or someone brings up a good point. Still, for now, I'm going to revel in its popcorn goodness. While not the best Trek movie, it's certainly the most exhilarating.

Two minor nitpicks in classic Trekkie fashion:
-While I understand the new warp effect that came with a new change to the franchise (as it's happened a half dozen times anyway), I wish Nero's and Spock's ships retained the TNG/DS9/VOY warp look

-During the gunfight aboard the vessel, the phasers shooting short bursts is fine and consistent. I wish the Romulan weapons fired steady streams as was consistent in the past

And really, the only reason why I'd point out those nitpicks is just to show the contrast of what came before versus the changes made with the new version. But again, they're minor, almost minute minor.

Oh, and old school sound effects? Heck yes. You even get to hear the ship's warp-power-up sound effect from the 60s! Love it love it love it.

 

[Reliant1983]

Hello all, first post from a year long lurker! Glad to finally jump in and embrace my inner Trekkie .

I saw the movie on Thursday with the girlfriend, my brother, sister, and her boyfriend. I was the only one out of the group who had seen any Trek and liked/loved what had come before: sis and her bf tried to watch a few episodes but thought they were bland, my brother is a Star Wars freak (I dig it too, Eps 4/5/6 only though), and my girlfriend who doesn't like any sci-fi that isn't Twilight. But, they all agreed that it "looked cool", and were willing to give it a chance.

This movie blew me away. Holy SHIT. This is the Trek we've been waiting for! I loved the nods to previous Trek, the casting/acting was superb, the f/x were stunning, I really liked the score, and the pacing of the film. Nonstop, balls to the wall. And emotional as hell. The first 10 minutes had the room getting dusty .

The cast all delivered in spades, and in fact might be my favorite thing about the movie. Pine as Kirk, Quinto as Spock, Urban as McCoy equals pure WIN. They didn't turn their charecters into spoofs, but the subtle nods here and there were welcome while making their own marks. LOVE Scotty, just wish there was more of him. Chekov was very likable, Uhura was sexy, intellegent, and stoic, and Sulu was Badass. Greenwood was great as Captain Pike as well! Loved the nods with his uniform and wheelchair. I really want to see the cut scenes with Nero on the DVD, because I really liked Bana's villian. Granted, it was Khan-lite, but he felt real, if that makes sense. And of course, Leonard Nimoy. What else needs be said? You could tell he really enjoyed being back, and I enjoyed it as well

The Enterprise herself...wow. From the pictures released months ago, I wasn't sure how it would work. In motion, it's BEAUTIFUL. I wanted to see more! Awesome ship. I liked the phasers being pulses like TWOK. The new warp effect is excellent as well. You really feel the ships power (especially when the Narada warps).

My only complaints are it ended way too fast, and maybe in the sequel we can see a bit more futuristic engineering, though I liked where they were going with it. I'm not wanting to see TNG with one huge shiny warp core and no pipes, but maybe a mix of both that and what we see in this would be the ticket. Small, small complaint though .

Also, some have stated the the story/plot is the weak point of the film. At first I agreed, and still think they could have done a few things to make it flow a bit better re: alternate timeline, time travel shenanigans, whatnot. But, keep in mind that this movie is trying to accomplish something I've never seen done, that being sequel, prequel, AND reboot all at the same time. JJ and team NAILED it. An in-universe explanation for the new timeline/universe, while somewhat clunky, was a neccesity. Otherwise, there would have been a lot of ticked off Trek fans for wiping the slate clean. I thought it was a great job overall.

Oh, and my family LOVED it too. When you see that first shot of the Enterprise right after Kirk tells Bones "I may throw up on you" ...I audibly "Whoa"d. So did the family! My brother couldn't stop smiling, and my sister and boyfriend now wants their own Enterprise (God, don't we all...). Even the girlfriend enjoyed it!

Emotional, epic, hilarious: it was all I could have asked for and more.
(on a side note, my sis pointed out to me that this movie had a "A New Hope" vibe to it. I think she was right, but in all the right ways. As they all agreed with me, at its heart, it's most definitely Star Trek!)

I could go on and on, but it's time to get some rest. I'll be seeing it again this week with my other sister who's a big geek like me, and probably a few more times after that! I can't wait to see what's next for this LIVING and PROSPERING franchise!

9.5/10

 

[TGTheodore]

Gene Roddenberry was a part-time journeyman TV writer, selling to the occasional show.

This part is not really accurate. He was not a "part-time journeyman TV writer". Although a freelance writer for a long time, he wrote pretty much constantly for TV from 1954 up to Star Trek. I wish I could write as many scripts as he did in only 10 years.

That's what journeyman means in writing. A writer-for-hire who's not on staff.

--Ted

 

[JoeyDeacon]

Disturbed by What I've Seen.....

.....When I went to see The Voyage Home I had a similar feeling, the more I think about it the more it seems to me to be the same feeling I had back in '86'. I had seen Trek but it was not Trek, it looked like Trek, it smelled like Trek but it was different.

It's not a bad thing.

But I don't know if I liked it and that's the point.

My misgivings are similar to many here although I do not care for the canon arguments. I thought engineering was a mess, what was the point of Pegg? None of the characters seemed to interact in the way that actors doing that role for years comfortably interacted, the effects were good but ultimately no better than most blockbusters coming through today and they had the virtue of being ripped off from BSG

I was utterly unmoved by the opening scenes on the Kelvin which seemed contrived and what was the point of Spock prime? Lucky Kirk happened on by that cave having been chased in any number of directions by the 'Lobster'.......more plot twisting that seemed credible actually. Pine was trying to do an impression of Shatner at times it seemed to me as well. The simulator scene was farcical too it seemed to me.

It was OK though, it was certainly different but I was far from convinced. My daughter, whom joined me last night at the cinema that it was cool because it had lots of explosions, emmmmm...........!

Too much seemed to be going on to flesh out the characters, Nero was an opportunity wasted as was Spock and his backstory.

I really don't know.

Of course it'll make money though as TVH. But did it pander to the lowest common denominator?

I think it did just as TVH did too.

 

[Orac Zen]

Things I can do without:

Fans being really mean to one another over this movie. I'm tired of seeing people being insulted for liking or not liking it. Is it completely impossible for people to state their opinion on the movie without putting other people down to do so?

Apparently. Some things never change.

Can an old lady post here?

Of course. Welcome to TBBS.

Hello all, first post from a year long lurker! Glad to finally jump in and embrace my inner Trekkie .

And welcome to you, too.

 

[JoeD80]

Gene Roddenberry was a part-time journeyman TV writer, selling to the occasional show.

This part is not really accurate. He was not a "part-time journeyman TV writer". Although a freelance writer for a long time, he wrote pretty much constantly for TV from 1954 up to Star Trek. I wish I could write as many scripts as he did in only 10 years.

That's what journeyman means in writing. A writer-for-hire who's not on staff.

--Ted

I was referring to "part-time"

 

[archeryguy1701]

I'm afraid to leave this thread alone for more than a few minutes at a time because if I don't check it for more than an hour or two, it absolutely explodes to the point where it's nearly impossible to catch back up! Saw it in Imax this morning in Imax, so I thought I would stop in with a few more thoughts. I thought it stood up very well upon the repeat viewing. Definately thinking it's my new favorite Trek movie, and it very well could be my favorite movie. So, just a few thoughts on what happened:

~Chekov didn't grate on me nearly as much the second time. The boy genius was still a tad annoying, but I got over the accent. I think it was just kinda jarring the first time I heard it.

~When the Spock was talking with the bridge crew about the time travel and the alternate realities, that scene and the way Spock was played reminded me so much of Star Trek VI when they were discussing the possibility of the cloaked BOP, and I loved it! If Quinto was Spock nowhere else in the movie, he was Spock in that scene, and it was awesome.

~The beginning. Still absolutely loved the beginning, and it still got me to tear up, which is rare for things to do upon repeat viewings. In fact, I started going earlier than last time simply because I knew what was coming.

~Pine did an awesome Kirk, and played like he was meant for the roll. The way he talked, the way he acted, reminded me so much of Kirk.

~I had two non-Trekkie fans love the movie and another one think it was good.

~Overall, still a phenominal experience. As someone who has been a fan for very nearly my entire life, I will say that I don't go into a series or movie looking for a "big, orverriding moral story". I'm going in looking to be entertained, and this movie does it in spades. If it does anything wrong, it's that it goes by too quickly. Hours seem like minutes. i have at least two more repeat viewings in the theaters, if not more, and I look forward to them!

You folks who dislike the movie are certainly entitled to that opinion, but as I've said in other locations, I don't understand the, "You're a koolaid drinker/ sheep/ fake Trek fan/ idiot/ lowest common denominator/ etc" comments and mentality. The way I see it? If you want people to respect your right to dislike the movie, grow the hell up and don't pull lines or moves like this. If nothing else, it will help your credibility and the likelihood that you'll be taken seriously when you leave crap lines like that out.