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Jeyl's Nitpicks on XI (Spoiler Heavy)

They had a fleet out in another system, the Enterprise was launched early, it wasn't meant to be launched with a cadet crew. All the officers seemed to be in another star system. They got the call from Vulcan and had to leave early, so they manned it with what they had.

Garbage.

This is the CAPITAL planet of the UFP. It has oodles and oodles of well trained people.

If, however, it did NOT and Starfleet did NOT keep a resevoir of well trained officers on hand at THE most important planet in the entire UFP, well, then they are a bunch of total douchebags.

We know from the history of Enterprise (Archer's ship) that bad things happen. ALL THE FRAKKING TIME. The smart money is on the people who are prepared.

The UFP has, conceivably, between 50 and 100 billion people. Only cadets were left to protect Earth? No other ready officers? And what about the Enterprise? This ship left with only junior grade officers? Horse shit. There were at least seven other ships, if the Enterprise was still too new to have a staff acompaniment, then they should have re-assigned a few top-notich officers from the other ships who WERE already staffed and seasoned.

You're talking to a former Navy guy. There's no way the USN could be run this way. HELL, there's no way ANY navy could be run this way. IT's utterly implausible.

~String
 
Ok, what does it matter?

It's a nit.

I still loved the movie. Tied with TWOK, IMHO. But the point(s) are: all of these oversights were totally unnecessary to the story and could have been written out. The story would STILL have been great, but more plausible. I could think of a MILLION ways to make the things happen that happened in this movie, but in a way that were SO much more believable.

Abrams should have been a bit more diligent.

~String
 
They said though in the movie their entire fleet was in the Larention system, whatever was going on there must have been pretty major. Plus, they did have a veteren captain on the Enterprise, Pike.
 
Ok, what does it matter?
Making Kirk permanent captain appeared to serve no purpose in this movie, in story or in attracting ticket sales. It felt extremely rushed, and he only had at most a minute or so of screen-time as captain at the end.

And couldn't Spock have given him a field commission of first officer? Even that would have seemed more reasonable and credible.
 
They said though in the movie their entire fleet was in the Larention system, whatever was going on there must have been pretty major. Plus, they did have a veteren captain on the Enterprise, Pike.

Well, duh. I know what they said. IT just didn't make any sense. Have you served in the military?

I have. The US navy.

By the time any ship is even REMOTELY ready to go into service (as in, several months before), it has its Captain, XO, and other major officers (often times the XO in the USN and the Chief Engineer are captain's themselves, the average carrier has at least six commanders onboard).

Earth, by this time, has AT LEAST six billion people (let's assume that they kept the population to a reasonable level). Figure a billion more throughout the entire solar system.

Also, it's safe to assume that since it's the capital planet of the entire UFP, it's bound to have a number of star bases (Shit-- San Francisco obviously had a HUGE number of flag officers and other relevant officers).

Again, either the UFP and Starfleet command is manned by idiots, or this is a major plot oversight.

Washington DC has over 50,000 military personnel who aren't onboard ships. In a pinch most of them could be pressed into service to their country. The USA only has 300,000,000+ people. The US military has like 2,000,000 people. Starfleet OBVIOUSLY has many, MANY times more than that. A good chunk of them, as we can see, are stationed on and around Earth.

The point: it's a military organization. It may be peaceful, but it's still a military organization dedicated to PROTECTION. If it can't accomplish that through moderately intelegent decisions, then the Romulans and Klingons are the least of their troubles.

~String
 
that's lovely, this is a future fictional organization, perhaps they operate differently. We can't apply our current methods to it. I don't have all the answers, all I know is what was said onscreen, and it seemed like they had a pretty good fleet in another star system for some reason and I guess they felt the cadets they were assigning to Enterprise were ready for the task.
 
True, there were many cadets shown, as that's where the movies focus was, but there were many others who weren't cadets. Obviously, there was Capt. Pike, the chief medical officer (who was killed), presumably a chief engineer, and several bridge crew members. The Comm officer Uhura replaced wasn't mentioned as being a cadet, and frankly neither were Chekov or Sulu although they didn't seem to have much experience. These are just the visible people and also just the ones on the Enterprise. True, the cadets were more visible, but I think its completely unfair to say that cadets made up the entire home fleet.

As for the location and task of the rest of the fleet, I have to wonder if that is going to tie into the sequel somehow.
 
that's lovely, this is a future fictional organization, perhaps they operate differently.

Oh... it's fictional. Well, thank god you said that. I was so confused.

Look. I'm not trying to piss in your Wheaties, but truth is truth. Just because you can suspend your disbelief, entirely, doesn't mean I have to.

Again, the story was well executed. I liked it. I enjoyed watching it and I didn't even stumble upon these points until I saw it, again, this morning. So, I obviously enjoyed it enough to see it a second time. I can quote Trek like a good Muslim can the Koran, but that doesn't negate my intellectual ability to tear it to shreds when it's WAY off base.

We can't apply our current methods to it.

Actually, yes we can. The rule is: This is still humanity, just MUCH more advanced. By this logic, it would stand to reason that if some dude from the 21st century (me) could be thinking of all these things, then some BRILLIANT people from the 23rd century should be way ahead of him. They've got an amalgam of Humans, Vulcans, Andorians... they have the brain power to keep a sizable military detachment on Earth just in case something happens. (Side nit: Andorians are QUITE militaristic and eager to man ships, we didn't see them: did they give up their seat on the council? and Tellerites. Imagine Earth joining an organization with a BIG military arm, don't you think we'd be sending our people to man the ships too? Sure. That's logical.)

I don't have all the answers

Who's looking to you for the answers? I know the answer to my nits: they are HUGE oversights. Granted. The movie rocked, but it doesn't detract from the HUGE oversights. Explaining them away with wishful thinking doesn't erase them. Humans are smart. WE, in our current time, would see the possibilty of a national emergency. They should and WOULD have as well.

and it seemed like they had a pretty good fleet in another star system for some reason and I guess they felt the cadets they were assigning to Enterprise were ready for the task.

It was a poorly used plot device. There were better ways to explain it. How about: just flash forward to Kirk being stationed on the ship (though, I did enjoy McCoy's ploy to get him onboard). We wouldn't have missed anything had we just been "flashed forward" six years to Kirk being head of Security on the ship with Spock as the XO. No harm done.

~String
 
Re: Fubar?

I remember back when the term Klingon Warbird was used in Broken Bow. The Enterprise forum had a thread filled with fanboys shouting cybervenom and cursing Bermaga as crimilans who shouldn't be allowed to write Trek again because of that. Hell, even other Trek websites went on at detail about this grievous error and docked the episode upward to five points in their reviews over it.

Yet, Abrams uses the term Klingon Warbird and everyone laps it up and berates anyone who criticizes it. No, no double standards here.

:bolian:
 
Re: Fubar?

I remember back when the term Klingon Warbird was used in Broken Bow. The Enterprise forum had a thread filled with fanboys shouting cybervenom and cursing Bermaga as crimilans who shouldn't be allowed to write Trek again because of that. Hell, even other Trek websites went on at detail about this grievous error and docked the episode upward to five points in their reviews over it.

Yet, Abrams uses the term Klingon Warbird and everyone laps it up and berates anyone who criticizes it. No, no double standards here.

Of course there will be double standards. Even if whining about the Warbird thing wasn't stupid, on the one hand you have Abrams.
This is his first Trek attempt and well... the universal acclaim from critics and fans speaks for itself.

On the other hand you had B&B,with years on the job and we all know what their last Trek tv & movie attempts were like.

If you are going to cut some slack to someone, who is it going to be ? That's right. Abrams.
 
Re: Fubar?

Birds of Prey are Romulan ships anyhow. Why the Kilingons ever started using them, I'll never know.
 
I would have thought that the reason the Narada was not detected was because it was cloaked, being Romulan and all. Plus if any of Vulcans defense ships were in the outer system, it could possibly have poached them off, one by one. Granted, Vulcan should have at least had an orbital defense system.
 
And couldn't Spock have given him a field commission of first officer?

Pike already did. That's how Kirk became Captain when Spock stepped down. Kirk was First Officer.

For those pissing and moaning because they made Kirk official Captain at the end, demand your money back and don't see any more Trek movies.
 
3) Why does Nero seem to think destroying Vulcan is going to stop Romulus from being destroyed, when Vulcan in fact seemed to hold the only hope to save it, but Spock just was too late?
I don't think that Nero thought destroying Vulcan would save his world. he still had well over 100 years to destroy the star that would go nova, and he had the technology to do it, he was just mad with anger. Even if he saves Romulus, it's still not "his world". His family, friends, and people died, and he wanted revenge for that failure.

Just got back from seeing it a second time-- by the time I scroll through 172 posts I may forget but--

1) Yes, as a woman it very much bothered me that with only 2 women in the main credits, one seems to get all her scenes cut-- and then gets killed. So it seems like the boys club only alows one woman to play in it.

I admit I was shocked that they hired Winona Ryder to speak about five lines. The lack of women, however, seemed to be locked in from the dramatis personae they inherited. I mean, Star Trek had three female characters, and only one, even in theory, wasn't in an extremely subordinated role.
From what I've read, there was a lot of stuff cut from the movie that was Amanda and Sarek related, so it's not quite like they hired her for five lines.

My Nitpicks:

1) By the year that the Romulus star exploded, Spock would have been over 150+ years old. Even though Vulcans have a longer lifespan than humans, why send an obviously elderly man, without any backup to stop a star from going Supernova, and then get pissed because he failed? Based on Nero's accounts, it clear that the Romulan Empire did little to evacuate Romulus, nor did they send any additional ships to prevent the Supernova other than Spock's ship (thus adopting the Federation's dismal "one ship to save us" policy). Wouldn't this be like sending Angela Landsbury on a mission to save Earth by herself?
According to the Countdown series (so stop reading this particular response if you don't want it spoiled), Spock volunteered. He felt that he was near the end of his life, and that he was responsible for not getting anyone to take action in time to save Romulus, so he volunteered for what ran the risk of being a suicide mission.

2) Instead of waiting around for 25 years for Spock, why didn't Nero head to Romulus and try to prevent the Supernova from ever happening? It is doubtful that the Supernova issue was just building up in the last few years, and that it had been buliding for a while (centuries/millenia), even though it was just recently detected in the 24th century. Since Nero's ship was so advanced, he could have disabled any Romulan opposition that he may have encountered and at least try to force the 23rd century Romulans to implement a system/solution to prevent it from happening. Clearly Nero was not worried about polluting the timeline, so why not pollute it to save Romulus? How in Nero's mind was the Federation responsible for the Supernova?
A couple things to keep in mind on this point. First, we don't know that he didn't already go destroy the star in question. It was never specifically established one way or the other. Second, according to the Countdown series again, they knew about th star going nova for a while, they just didn't realise how big and dangerous it would be. Third, there's the cut Rura Penthe story line. If the Narada can defeat 45 Klingon vessels, then there is no reason she should have been caught... unless the Klingons caught them right after the Kelvin smashed into them and probably crippled them temporarily. And, since they said that he 45 ships were destroyed near the "klingon prison planet", it's safe to assume that they had just gotten out of the prison.

3) Was Nero aware that he was in an alternate timeline? The dialog that he had when he was fighting nuKirk seems to indicate that he at least perceived that this "Kirk" was different than TOS Kirk. So, if he knew this, why did he think that by changing or interfering with the alternate timeline that it would help Romulus escape its fate?
Since he Ceti eeled Pike, he probably learned about the differences between his reality and the one they were in that way.
Many things in this movie were like that. Oooh, billions of people died. Well, whatever, on to the next action sequence. You were never really given the time and space to feel what was happening.

No, of course not.
There was only the 'I'm now part of an endangered species' log entry and the turbolift-scene with Spock and Uhura.

:rolleyes:
The Enterprise flyby shot alone seemed to dismiss the whole sequence. It just felt conspicuously out of place, and likely no amount of Spock/Uhura turbolift brooding would have brought it back for me.

I would have preferred no flyby. Vulcan collapses. A moment of silence, perhaps a sorrowful music cue. Mouths agape on the bridge, like "holy shit, did that just happen!?". Then pause, take a breath. Then Spock heads for the lift, Uhura follows.
Was a flyby necessary to see? Probably not, but they were in "standard orbit" of a planet that just turned into a black hole. Considering they sat there well past what one officer said was too late to escape, I doubt they would have much time to sit there gaping at the screen.
 
Re: Problems with the film?

In fact, it's a "peacekeeping and humanitarian" organisation - Captain Pike, Trek XI

Actually, Pike said the Federation was a "peacekeeping and humanitarian" organization. I'm certain, because I blinked at it and thought "didn't he mean Starfleet?"

My one question regarding the Klingon prison issue: if Nero and crew were captured, was the Narada impounded somewhere by the Klingons? If so, did the Klingons reverse-engineer any of it? And was the Narada adversely effected by whatever the Klingons did in analyzing it? And, how hard was it for Nero and his crew to find and get to it?

I have a feeling that questions like these are part of the reason why it wasn't dwelled upon too much. :rommie:
 
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