The Federation is at war with the... [spoilers]

[TheMadCloner]

The Romulans?

Based on Kirk's line to Spock before firing on Nero's ship:

"Offering compassion might be the only way we can make peace with the Romulans." (or something to that extent)

Unless I missed something - which has been known to happen - I can only see a few possibilities:

1. Kirk mistakenly thought Nero represented greater Romulan interests. Nero told Pike he didn't represent Romulus, but did this message get through to Kirk?

2. Nero contacted the Romulans in this universe, leading them to declare war with the Federation.

3. The Federation was already at war with the Romulans, or Nero's arrival into this universe altered history to cause that to happen.

4. Following from #1, the Federation is in a cold war with the Romulans (much like the original TOS universe) and "making peace" means detente.

 

[BorgPhil]

you have to assume that after the Kelvin-Narada incident, the Federation and Romulans had some contact (pre-Balance of Terror time), as Kirk knew the Narada was a Romulan ship and Spock knew of the common heritage.

However, I think it's safe to assume they also believed the Narada had some link to the current Romulan government when it obviously didn't.

Whatever the situation, following Starfleet's defeat at Vulcan, and the 47 Klingon warbirds being destroyed, the Romulans must be in a very strong position at the end of the film.

 

[npsf3000]

1 no, 2 no, 3 no, 4 nearly.

I figure its closest to 4, especially as this universe should be just like "the original TOS universe" in respect to the Romulans.

 

[TheMadCloner]

you have to assume that after the Kelvin-Narada incident, the Federation and Romulans had some contact (pre-Balance of Terror time), as Kirk knew the Narada was a Romulan ship and Spock knew of the common heritage.

However, I think it's safe to assume they also believed the Narada had some link to the current Romulan government when it obviously didn't.

Maybe, but given Kirk had already met Spock prime and knew that the Narada was from the future and that Nero didn't represent current-time Romulus, his line doesn't really make sense in that context.

Whatever the situation, following Starfleet's defeat at Vulcan, and the 47 Klingon warbirds being destroyed, the Romulans must be in a very strong position at the end of the film.

Yeah, I think this could be a plot point for the sequel to be honest.

 

[TheMadCloner]

1 no, 2 no, 3 no, 4 nearly.

I figure its closest to 4, especially as this universe should be just like "the original TOS universe" in respect to the Romulans.

Like I said above, this only makes sense if Nero had somehow been in touch with the Romulans in this universe and that his presence had become known fact around the galaxy. Otherwise, saving Nero would have no impact on Romulan-Federation relations - how would the Romulans know about anything that happened, and secondly, why would they care?

 

[npsf3000]

Actually i think the opposite, the federation just lost a few ships it had lying around at the time, bit like loosing your reserves the real deal is still out there.

The romulans on the other hand haven't lost anything, but now have 2 very pissed empires at the door. They wont do anything.

Once again the power of the "three" is balanced.

 

[npsf3000]

1 no, 2 no, 3 no, 4 nearly.

I figure its closest to 4, especially as this universe should be just like "the original TOS universe" in respect to the Romulans.

Like I said above, this only makes sense if Nero had somehow been in touch with the Romulans in this universe and that his presence had become known fact around the galaxy. Otherwise, saving Nero would have no impact on Romulan-Federation relations - how would the Romulans know about anything that happened, and secondly, why would they care?

Its a show of federation ideals... Romulans and Klingons have always indoctrinated that the federation is week, and power hungry. To return someone that has just wiped out one of your most powerful planets shows a great deal of moral structure.

In theory you would hope the Romulans respect that.

 

[-Brett-]

On Delta Vega, doesn't Kirk refer to himself as a prisoner of war? He clearly isn't.

I'd just chalk stuff like that up to the writers not thinking before they write.

 

[TheMadCloner]

On Delta Vega, doesn't Kirk refer to himself as a prisoner of war? He clearly isn't.

I'd just chalk stuff like that up to the writers not thinking before they write.

Maybe, maybe not.

I just feel that there's something more to this universe than what we see in this movie. I get the sense that the Federation is already engaged in some kind of major conflict - large enough to require a significant amount of their forces diverted to one (Laurentian) system.

 

[clint g]

On Delta Vega, doesn't Kirk refer to himself as a prisoner of war? He clearly isn't.

I'd just chalk stuff like that up to the writers not thinking before they write.

Maybe, maybe not.

I just feel that there's something more to this universe than what we see in this movie. I get the sense that the Federation is already engaged in some kind of major conflict - large enough to require a significant amount of their forces diverted to one (Laurentian) system.

I was getting that vibe as well. It must be pretty bad for them to have to mobilize a bunch of cadets to fill in the gaps. It would be cool if they explain some more about it in the future

 

[npsf3000]

On Delta Vega, doesn't Kirk refer to himself as a prisoner of war? He clearly isn't.

I'd just chalk stuff like that up to the writers not thinking before they write.

Drr... the federation is in a war, and he is a prisoner...

They use a similar joke in a MASH episode.

 

[npsf3000]

On Delta Vega, doesn't Kirk refer to himself as a prisoner of war? He clearly isn't.

I'd just chalk stuff like that up to the writers not thinking before they write.

Maybe, maybe not.

I just feel that there's something more to this universe than what we see in this movie. I get the sense that the Federation is already engaged in some kind of major conflict - large enough to require a significant amount of their forces diverted to one (Laurentian) system.

I was getting that vibe as well. It must be pretty bad for them to have to mobilize a bunch of cadets to fill in the gaps. It would be cool if they explain some more about it in the future

Vulcan is under Attack people, don't you get that?

Vulcan is one of the core words.

Its like the USA.

America doesn't fight on its own soil, it fight away from home. The main force of starfleet is out there exploring and maintaining its borders.

If something happened to New York, a major flood or something, they would send everything they have got. Even recruits can help an evacuation.

"major conflict - large enough to require a significant amount of their forces diverted to one (Laurentian) system."

I call Vulcan being blown up by a Romulan hostile, a pretty big reason to rally the troops together don't you?

 

[TheMadCloner]

Maybe, maybe not.

I just feel that there's something more to this universe than what we see in this movie. I get the sense that the Federation is already engaged in some kind of major conflict - large enough to require a significant amount of their forces diverted to one (Laurentian) system.

I was getting that vibe as well. It must be pretty bad for them to have to mobilize a bunch of cadets to fill in the gaps. It would be cool if they explain some more about it in the future

Vulcan is under Attack people, don't you get that?

Vulcan is one of the core words.

Its like the USA.

America doesn't fight on its own soil, it fight away from home. The main force of starfleet is out there exploring and maintaining its borders.

If something happened to New York, a major flood or something, they would send everything they have got. Even recruits can help an evacuation.

"major conflict - large enough to require a significant amount of their forces diverted to one (Laurentian) system."

I call Vulcan being blown up by a Romulan hostile, a pretty big reason to rally the troops together don't you?

Uh, the Laurentian system matter is a separate rallying cry. So obviously something else is happening there that is on the scale of a core world being in crisis - because from the movie, I get the impression that there are MORE ships in the Laurentian system (most of the primary fleet, in fact) than were sent to Vulcan.

They have the primary fleet tied up in the Laurentian system, and they're forced to basically send reserves (and a newly commissioned Enterprise) to Vulcan.

 

[clint g]

I was getting that vibe as well. It must be pretty bad for them to have to mobilize a bunch of cadets to fill in the gaps. It would be cool if they explain some more about it in the future

Vulcan is under Attack people, don't you get that?

Vulcan is one of the core words.

Its like the USA.

America doesn't fight on its own soil, it fight away from home. The main force of starfleet is out there exploring and maintaining its borders.

If something happened to New York, a major flood or something, they would send everything they have got. Even recruits can help an evacuation.

"major conflict - large enough to require a significant amount of their forces diverted to one (Laurentian) system."

I call Vulcan being blown up by a Romulan hostile, a pretty big reason to rally the troops together don't you?

Uh, the Laurentian system matter is a separate rallying cry. So obviously something else is happening there that is on the scale of a core world being in crisis - because from the movie, I get the impression that there are MORE ships in the Laurentian system (most of the primary fleet, in fact) than were sent to Vulcan.

Indeed. The reason why the attack on Vulcan was such a big deal over by Earth was because the Federation was deployed over in the Laurentian system and had no one watching the front yard. To follow npsf3000 analogy, what happened would be similar to a massive Chinese invasion of the west coast while our forces were fighting a war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[npsf3000]

The only problem with that is I never hear it mentioned in the film - the only reason I heard for the rally was to group together in hope that a bigger task-force that knew what it was up against could do more damage.

 

[TheMadCloner]

The only problem with that is I never hear it mentioned in the film - the only reason I heard for the rally was to group together in hope that a bigger task-force that knew what it was up against could do more damage.

Spock later orders the Enterprise to rendezvous with the rest of the fleet, so I assume that whatever matter they were tied up at in the Laurentian system was resolved (or at least put on the back burner because Earth was in imminent danger) by then.

Still, I don't think it's common to have most of your fleet tied up in one system. Something must have been happening there, and it likely wasn't exploration or peacekeeping.

 

[joe40001]

The Romulans?

Based on Kirk's line to Spock before firing on Nero's ship:

"Offering compassion might be the only way we can make peace with the Romulans." (or something to that extent)

Unless I missed something - which has been known to happen - I can only see a few possibilities:

1. Kirk mistakenly thought Nero represented greater Romulan interests. Nero told Pike he didn't represent Romulus, but did this message get through to Kirk?

2. Nero contacted the Romulans in this universe, leading them to declare war with the Federation.

3. The Federation was already at war with the Romulans, or Nero's arrival into this universe altered history to cause that to happen.

4. Following from #1, the Federation is in a cold war with the Romulans (much like the original TOS universe) and "making peace" means detente.

Honestly I had the same questions when I saw it too. I really think it was only in there as setup for a joke.

 

[clint g]

The only problem with that is I never hear it mentioned in the film - the only reason I heard for the rally was to group together in hope that a bigger task-force that knew what it was up against could do more damage.

I dont have the DVD in front of me so I cant check right now, but after two viewings it seemed pretty clear to me that the fleet was preoccupied in the Laurentian system.

Thats why the fleet left straigt from Earth in the first place. It is also implied that the Lauerentian fleet was never sent to Vulcan since the Ent was supposed to meet up with them after they lost Captain Pike

 

[npsf3000]

Thats why the fleet left straigt from Earth in the first place. It is also implied that the Lauerentian fleet was never sent to Vulcan since the Ent was supposed to meet up with them after they lost Captain Pike

Problem is my explanation also explains that, with-out some kind of sick war that we don't know about being played out. This is star trek, not a war movie!.

 

[lawman]

I just feel that there's something more to this universe than what we see in this movie. I get the sense that the Federation is already engaged in some kind of major conflict - large enough to require a significant amount of their forces diverted to one (Laurentian) system.

What was the explanation in the movie for the entire rest of the fleet being away at this conveniently remote location? It was passed over so quickly in dialogue that I didn't retain the details.