The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[FlyingLemons]

When I first heard about the "straight to Captain" promotion out of the Academy I initially wondered how that would work, but after seeing the film it makes sense. Saving the planet Earth, and possibly the entire Federation would be a pretty special and spectacular start to any cadet's career, so I suppose that would warrant Kirk jumping up the career ladder a bit earlier than he otherwise might have.

 

[Bobatiel]

As a kid, I grew up watching TOS first run, and have been a fan, a hard core fan, for these nearly 43 years and...I liked this movie, it was exciting...sorry, but what was also exciting was that my 13 year old who had NEVER been a trek fan at all went with me and enjoyed it and the fact that he was asking questions afterward shows that this Trek will resonate with those outside the franchise while in my opinion it remains true to the essential core of the characters and themes us old timers love, woven into a new canvas that is accessible to all in 2009.

One thing that struck me as I was sitting in the theater looking at all the iPods and iPhones, was just how hard it must have been to update the look of this and still keep the spirit of the old alive, argue all you want, and I love the old designs as much as anyone, but this HAD to be visually relevant for todays audience, it HAD to look like our future, not 1966's...

As a kid who jumped on board at the nd of the original run, I totally agree with what you say.

My sons (18 and 19) enjoyed it and couldn't wait to see it.

 

[KimMH]

I can see that with one or two exceptions, this forum is full of muppets and traitors and brain-dead mindless idiots who point at the flashing lights and say 'Ooh, pretty!' so I see no reason to bother posting here anymore.

well don't let the door hit ya . . .

*traitor - but only a fan for 30 years talkin' here*

I really liked the shiny flashing lights. and the shiny new Spock.

 

[Agent Richard07]

When I first heard about the "straight to Captain" promotion out of the Academy I initially wondered how that would work, but after seeing the film it makes sense. Saving the planet Earth, and possibly the entire Federation would be a pretty special and spectacular start to any cadet's career, so I suppose that would warrant Kirk jumping up the career ladder a bit earlier than he otherwise might have.

He'd certainly be commended for what he did, but cadet to captain? I still think it's a bit much. Then again, it does play into the more simplistic "Power Rangers" tone I always thought the movie had.

Sure, give a bunch of kids colorful costumes and a cool ship to battle evil. Why not?

 

[Kruge]

One teeny tiny little bit of nitpicking (hey, I stood in line for an hour even though I bought my tickets three weeks in advance, lol I'm entitled to one!)

In The Wrath of Khan, Spock recalls that Kirk took the Kobayashi Maru 3 times, and it's revealed that he finally "beat it" by cheating...also, as Spock is dying, he tells Kirk that he "never took the Kobayashi Maru..."

So in Star Trek, true to canon, Kirk attempts the Kobayashi Maru a third time, and this time he beats it, again by cheating (reprogramming the subroutine, we all know the story)...and yet it is noted that Spock has run the test for the past four years (I never heard them say that he actually invented the test, just that he had been in charge of running it)

At Kirk's academic trial, Spock confronts him and berates him for not accepting the premise of the test...yet how is it not hypocritical that Spock, according to TWOK, has never even takent the test himself? How can he criticize Kirk? And just how likely is it that a cadet (or commander, or whatever Spock was in 2258) would be placed in charge of running a test that he has never taken?

I know...I'm grasping for straws here...I reallly liked this film, but this just came to me...

 

[Captain Craig]

The science was completely absurd, to the point of being annoying, but I resigned myself to accept this movie as a big dumb action piece with character moments, and on those terms, it was a great success. Tons of fun. But...what the hell is "red matter," anyway?

What is dilithium? Trititanium? Accept and move on. ST is not a science project.

RAMA

Preach it Rama. Just have fun with it Harvey, you remember fun don't you?

Forgot to mention Pike too. Awesome. I'm glad they didn't kill him and the wheelchair was a nice touch!

I to was glad they didn't kill Pike, thought it was headed that way. Bruce Greenwood is a good actor and I like the idea of him being able to reprise the role, even marginally, in future sequels.

Rebel, you seem to have totally missed the whole scene on the bridge where the characters practically break the fourth wall and shove the fact that this is an alternate universe down your throat. This change in the timeline isn't overwriting what came before it, it's a seperate and distinct universe now, like the Mirror Universe exists along side the 'prime universe'.

Why does a growing number of people seem to not acknowlege this? Parallel or Mirror Universies have long established Trek canon. Some exist along side our "regular 43yrs of canon"(ie the Mirror U) others exist a short while and dissappear or are folded back into the normal STU(ie Voyage Home,First Contact, TNG's All Good Things or VOYs Year of Hell. Then thre is the the TNG ep Parallels which leads us to acknowledge those other STU's are out there in some capacity.

For all we know its possible that after a trilogy of movies that this Pine/Quinto timeline will reconvene into the "normal" STU ala Voyage Home or First Contact. Could make an interesting 50th Anniversary type movie in 7yrs.

 

[thumbtack]

Reading through this thread, I am confused. It's the spin-off fans and not the TOS fans who've got their panties in a bunch. I am at a loss to explain this. Is it because the comfortable sameness of the four spin-offs is not present in this movie? Is it because "their" trek is gone now? Do they now feel that they have memorized the Star Trek Encyclopedia all for nothing? Is this movie just too different for them? It's quite strange, when you think about it.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Saw the movie last night. Don't have the time to go in depth, right now. But I will say that I've finally, at long last, seen a Star Trek movie. This was a cinematic event. A motion picture with a kinetic energy that I've felt was long missing from Trek. Most of all it was FUN. That's been MIA for quite some time in Trek.

The boring, pretentious and forced character moments were gone. In their place, genuine characterization and emotion. The characters felt real, more real than they've been since the first season of TOS. They felt. They acted. They didn't pontificate on the wonders of 23rd/24th century humanity. They were human, even Spock, who, even in the original, has always been the most human of them all. His inner conflict allowed to boil to over 200 degrees and bubble over the pot into the flames below.

The actors, all of them, held my interest from beginning to end. Pine was Kirk. Qunito was Spock. Urban was McCoy. Etc. Never once did I think "their not playing it like so-and-so." Pine's Kirk in a lot of ways reminded me of the early first-season Kirk. These actors were the characters. I believed it. More importantly, I felt it.

The ship had a grandeur not seen since TMP. I felt I was on board both the Kelvin and the Enterprise not some studio set as I did with TSFS-NEM.

Do I have critiques? Yes, but few and far between, mainly doing with pacing in a few places and shot framing.

I could give a rat's ass to exactly what Red Matter is. Trek is littered with so so many pseudo-scientific McGuffins that I was able to go with it and not even blink twice. Hell, everyone complains about the science in this movie but Trek has always played loose, real loose, in regards to the scientific.

Voyager anyone? That show had more pseudo-scientific McGuffins than any other Trek.

Some one mentioned how a black hole could be a portal. Well, it's always been theorized that a black hole or singularity could function as a bridge between two points in space-time. Einstein-Rosen bridge. Commonly known as a "wormhole." And the function of a black hole in this movie is on par with the function it's always had in Trek.

Although I loved that there wasn't an TECH, i.e. technobable, explanations for things. The most we got was key terms like Red Matter, black hole, supernova, and "space as the thing that's moving." They even used the old TOS trick of the simplistic analogy ("hitting a bullet with another bullet while riding on a horse blindfolded").

Canon be damned. They told a good story that wasn't really about the villain or the problem, but the people who we care about and how they came to work together.

That's a little more in-depth than I originally was going to post.

Star Trek is back. The Trek I grew up with, TOS, writ large on the anamorphic screen.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The cadet-to-Captain thing is unsalvagable. It's not the first time, going back forty-three years, that I've looked the other way at Trek's disinterest in the realities of military structure and the chain of command, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The cadet-to-Captain thing is unsalvagable. It's not the first time, going back forty-three years, that I've looked the other way at Trek's disinterest in the realities of military structure and the chain of command, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

And it's been done in other military SF, like where I got my moniker, that I didn't bat an eye.

However, the movie established that Starfleet seemed to be interested in quickly cultivating those with command aptitude in the bar scene with Kirk and Pike. "...captain of your own ship in eight..." So Starfleet promoting Kirk, who did the extraordinary in the face of certain peril, seems in line with the "universe" that Abrams and company created for this film.

It may not make "real world" sense but it worked within the fiction of the movie.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Reading through this thread, I am confused. It's the spin-off fans and not the TOS fans who've got their panties in a bunch. I am at a loss to explain this. Is it because the comfortable sameness of the four spin-offs is not present in this movie? Is it because "their" trek is gone now? Do they now feel that they have memorized the Star Trek Encyclopedia all for nothing? Is this movie just too different for them? It's quite strange, when you think about it.

It is an interesting and strange thing.

I became a Trek fan during its first weeks on NBC. I really liked TNG, though, right from the beginning despite the rough patches in the first and especially second years. It's second only to TOS in my fondness for it.

And last night I went home and went to bed and was channel-surfing...and the SCI-FI Channel was showing "All Good Things..."

And I couldn't watch it. I was tired, and it just...looked...so...flat.

I'm sure the feeling will pass.

 

[ST-One]

You know, I didn't notice a single bar-code scanner during the entire film - I know they were all over the place, but I didn't notice.

In fact, none of the complaints I had before seeing the film - about the score, or Engineering, or the bridge - bothered me a bit while I was watching it. I was just so there.

I tried to see them, but they aren't noticeable enough.
The bridge seemed much smaller in motion than in the still-images we've seen for months now.

 

[thesadpanda]

The cadet-to-Captain thing is unsalvagable. It's not the first time, going back forty-three years, that I've looked the other way at Trek's disinterest in the realities of military structure and the chain of command, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Starfleet isn't the military. It has a military heirarchy, sure, 'cause it runs smoother that way but these people aren't soldiers. They're scientists and swashbucklers banding together as an "instrument of civilization," as Kirk once said. Where the military breaks its members down to little more than machines following an authoritarian command structure, Starfleet's strength comes from its attempt to cultivate and maximize the strengths of each individual. That's why Starfleet is so much more forgiving of insubordination and familiarity in the ranks. It wasn't until DS9, Voyager and Enterprise that it was reinterpretted to be a military organization.

Kirk proved his talent by saving every single Federation world from Nero when a dozen experienced starship commanders had failed to do it. He was rewarded with a place in Starfleet where he could fully actualize himself, to the benefit of the entire organization. The fact that something like that would never happen in today's military is an indictment of today's military, not of Starfleet.

 

[Lonemagpie]

8.5/10 - looks fab, hugely entertaining, feels right, does a great job of introducing this stuff all new, but does have a massively underdeveloped villain (he lost any hope of being menacing as soon as he brightly said "Hi Chris, I'm Nero"), and plot holes you could drive the Narada through. I'm perfectly happy with all the new cast, as well

 

[NCC-1701-B]

I saw it last night and all i can say is WOW! it was even better than i expected! what better way to celebrate finishing school for good than with a new trek movie!?! I loved Bones when he said: "Dammnit Jim, i'm a doctor, not a physicist!" the whole room filled with laughter! I am amazed that he played bones so well! the voice was perfect, and all of the mannerisms were brilliant!

 

[LitmusDragon]

7.5 out of 10

Solid, entertaining Trek movie that could not quite rise to the possibly ridiculously high level of expectation I carried into the theatre with me. I think the movie would have had a greater impact if the ice monsters and orbital parachute sequence had not already been spoiled by commercials of all things. It really irks me when they put the best parts of the movie into the ads.

I think the "originality" of this movie has been overblown. Most of it was by-the-numbers space battles and fisticuff sequences. Also what was with Kirk hanging from cliffs every five minutes?

I don't mean to knock the movie entirely. It really was entertaining, and I think if I had went in totally unspoiled I would have enjoyed it more. If it had been released six months ago as originally intended that probably would have been the case.

The cast did an excellent job, especially the actor playing Bones who really nailed the part.

When you get a media circus surrounding a movie such as this one, sometimes the movie is so good that it rises above all of the hype. I'm thinking Lord of the Rings is the best example. The Dark Knight would be another. In this case, I couldn't help but be a little disappointed. This was mostly stuff I had seen before. For people who haven't watched Star Trek in 20 years, this movie might be a revelation. For myself, not so much.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The cadet-to-Captain thing is unsalvagable. It's not the first time, going back forty-three years, that I've looked the other way at Trek's disinterest in the realities of military structure and the chain of command, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Starfleet isn't the military.

As Harve Bennett famously replied to one of Roddenberry's memos, "It used to be."

During the original Star Trek television series, Starfleet (or "Star Fleet") was an analogue to the United States Navy with the scientific mission tacked on - inspired partly by 19th century explorers but largely, I suspect, by the fact that the astronauts of the American space program were mainly military officers serving in a scientific endeavor.

In the writer's guide for the series, Roddenberry encouraged writers to test the plausibility of Kirk's behavior in their stories by asking themselves "would the Captain of an aircraft carrier behave this way?"

For me, this movie not only rose above the pre-release hype but exceeded four decades of expectations.

 

[tomalak301]

Now that I'm more or less awake, here were some more thoughts I had about the new movie:

Overall, I liked it. I liked what Abrams was trying to do, and this just opens the door to what is in Store for Star Trek in this universe. This was also the most fun Trek movie I've seen in a long time. It seemed like in other movies, the fun felt forced, but this one things just seemed to flow a lot better and it was just a hell of a ride.

I did feel, however, the movie was too short. It's one thing to have my complete attention throughout, but when it was over, it almost felt like the movie had just started. The movie moved at a fast pace and never let up from start to finish. Through it all, I wanted more. I think one way to make it longer, and another qualm I had with the movie, was that Nero should have been much more developed than he was. Maybe it was Bana's Acting (I'm biased and do not like him as an actor and wish someone else was in the role) but Nero came across as just unclear who needed more fleshing. In terms of Star Trek villians in the movies, I would probably rank him last, unfortunately.

It was good though that this movie wasn't about Nero but more about Kirk and Spock. I really loved the characters and the casting choices were really good. Pine made a great Kirk, and Quinto was almost near perfect as Spock. I really loved Simon Pegg as Scotty, and while Urban was alright as McCoy, the scene where he's saying stuff like "Space is a disease..." seemed kinda forced. McCoy doesn't say stuff like that and while this is a different Canon, I don't want McCoy to get all Philisophical or whatever. It just doesn't bode well for me. Bruce Greenwood made a great Pike and hopefully we see more of him. Zoe Zeldana was decent as Uhura and I was intregued by the relationship between Her and Spock. In fact, I think I liked it, especially after Vulcan was destroyed. I wish we got more of Rider and Cross but I don't have much to say about them so I won't. As for Nimoy, I liked him in this movie. It was a nice way to pass the torch and it didn't feel like a sucking up to the original series which was nice.

Overall, I like the movie and gave it an excellent. I find it a bit unsettling that Vulcan is destroyed, but that made Spock a much better character and it was nice to see the friendship between the two of them grow. I'm not one of these Canon people, but I must say the thing that I take away from this movie is the excitement as to where Star Trek goes from here. It's like Abrams gave the franchise forty more years and opened it up to new audiences. Going in, I knew that was the goal, and Abrams did it well. Looking forward to Star Trek XII.

I still can't wait to find out who will play the Next Generation characters in this universe.

 

[Klaus]

I enjoyed it a lot and plan to see it again... I had remained unspoiled concerning the fate of Vulcan so that was a shock. Perhaps redressing the timeline in that regard will come later?

 

[tomalak301]

I do have two other things but didn't want to make a new thread about it:

1) Didn't like the product placement (Nokia still exists in the 23ed century ha?) but loved the music. Bestie Boys? That was different but good

2) I missed the part where McCoy was explaining how he got the nickname bones. The theater was laughing a lot during the scene and I didn't hear it. Could someone explain it to me so I at least got that. I'm probably going to see it again, but not this weekend.