Why am I such a freak? Why can't I be normal? How is it that I like both X3 and Star Trek Nemesis?
Because you don't have standards?
X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Ethros
- Start date
Because you don't have standards?
Why am I such a freak? Why can't I be normal? How is it that I like both X3 and Star Trek Nemesis?
Hey, don't worry, normality is overrated (or so I hear). Besides, aren't all of us here kind of freaky in our own way?
That being said... X3 and Nemesis? Yeah, you're an abomination and must be cast out.
Sorry.
I hated X3 because of it's rush job, not spending any time or detail on things that needed it, and pussifying Wolverine and a few incompetent filmmaking decisions from Ratners typical workmanlike direction. Wolverine had all that as well as pure stoytelling incompetence and a total lack of regard for any cinematic originality or faithful characterization, even within itself. I own X3 simply for it's few moments, there were none of those in Wolverine.
I just watched X3 last night and I think it holds up well. It's not as artistic as the first two but there's so many geek moments in there I just love. Kelsey Grammar as the blue-furred Beast. The Fast Ball Special. A Sentinel. Juggernaut. Kitty Pryde. Juggernaut versus Kitty Pryde. Multiple Man. Angel. Storm versus Callisto. It's funny because all the countless cameos seem to fit into the plot here, whereas in Wolverine they were just these weird little vignettes in a vacuum. If it weren't for the abysmal depiction of Dark Phoenix (and her killing Cyclops and Xavier) I'd think it's pretty good.
I always thought X3 was underrated. I mean it actually dealt with a real quandry: what would they do if there was a cure? who would take it? What a great story idea, on its own more compelling than the plots of the other two films. I mean the actors and producers had debates on the set over who would and wouldn't take the cure. While X: Men origins: Wolverine had adamantium bullets, which is the dumbest idea in the world!
Also just for the record, I do love X2, but man is it overrated. the second act in the story just doesn't work at all. I mean what were Storm and Grey doing all that time, flipping switches on the jet? And when Wolvie et all reach the house, the tension of the overall story deflates like a balloon that we resort to seeing wolverine having to deal with a crummy cell phone signal.
Also just for the record, I do love X2, but man is it overrated. the second act in the story just doesn't work at all. I mean what were Storm and Grey doing all that time, flipping switches on the jet? And when Wolvie et all reach the house, the tension of the overall story deflates like a balloon that we resort to seeing wolverine having to deal with a crummy cell phone signal.
I went in expecting crap and was pleasantly surprised. It was a fun movie that I felt held up well with the first two X-men films. Much better than X3, but that is not too hard. I think that there was so much hype against the movie, so many people are trying hard to bash it. It is not perfect ( a mute Deadpool and crappy CG) but a fun summer movie.
There are few outright bad elements, but there are few astonishingly great ones either. Wolverine is a middle-of-the-road summer action picture, but it had the potential to be so much more than it was. It is hard to care about the action when so many characters are indestructible or known to survive in later movies. To make that work, there has to be a different kind of emotional anchor, such as Superman trying to protect the innocent civilians in his movies.
I don't currently plan on seeing Wolverine 2, Deadpool, Magneto, Gambit, or any other Origins movie.
I don't currently plan on seeing Wolverine 2, Deadpool, Magneto, Gambit, or any other Origins movie.
Agreed. X3 would have been much more emotionally significant if Magneto had saved Xavier during the confrontation with Jean (a nice reversal there), and Cyclops should have been the one to stop her in the end. Then after her funeral, a devastated Cyclops leaves the team and Wolverine steps in to take his place full-time.
C+
It's not a horrible movie, but it really just seems to be a collection of cameos to set up spin off movies. An Logan himself was a rather boring character.
It's not a horrible movie, but it really just seems to be a collection of cameos to set up spin off movies. An Logan himself was a rather boring character.
Wow. This is on Page 2 already. That says a lot...
Here's an article from IGN wondering whether or not the Wolverine character is broken. I agree with what is written here. As one reviewer noted, instead of being an animal Wolverine is practically civilized throughout the entire movie.
http://stars.ign.com/articles/979/979479p1.html
Here's an article from IGN wondering whether or not the Wolverine character is broken. I agree with what is written here. As one reviewer noted, instead of being an animal Wolverine is practically civilized throughout the entire movie.
http://stars.ign.com/articles/979/979479p1.html
I've been gestating more on the film...
X-Men Origins: Wolverine is just a mess. Rife with continuity errors, plot holes, poor characterization, and cheesy action, the film fails to ever take its talent or characters seriously enough to make for a compelling adventure. Gone are the themes that made X-Men and X2: X-Men United so compelling: prejudice, race war, alienation. Unlike Iron Man, whose themes on technology and greed were simple and clearly presented in a fun and engaging fashion, X-Men Origins: Wolverine simply doesn't care enough. When it tries to care, we get empty monologues on patriotism and revenge and lame little stories about some lost lover of the moon.
Jackman's return as Wolverine is tragic. X-Men Origins: Wolverine completes the comedic caricature of Wolverine that X-Men: The Last Stand started, presenting a over-serious but somehow always-witty bad ass with a heart of gold. Gone is the ruthless loner of X-Men and X2: X-Men United. This time around, Logan wanders around trying to find the man who killed and whines about a lost love and deals with family issues. Is he a badass? Nope. The entire movie fails to offer a "savage Wolverine moment" like that of the 5-minute sequence in X2 where Logan defends Xavier's mansion.
Compare this to Tony Stark, who is engaging and fun while also lonely and conflicted. It's an engaging mix of characteristics that play nicely into Tony Stark's rise in becoming Iron Man. It also produces variety, as the Tony Stark in one scene is different from other scenes yet always consistent in his central characterization. We appreciate Stark's sarcasm as defense mechanism of his trust issues, and as a natural extension of his ego. Wolverine's always funny, always witty, and always trying so hard to be a bad ass that we're bored with him in the first few minutes. There's no variety and more importantly...
There's absolutely no growth as a character!
The change in Wolverine's character in Wolverine is largely medical, as the movie simply intends to show us how Wolverine became an amnesiac prior to the beginnings of X-Men. These new films by Marvel Studios seem to want to establish and expand worlds, showcasing our favorite heroes development into the one's we know and love. Whatever its flaws, Iron Man does this and does it well. Tony Stark goes from a greedy industrialist to a ruthless armored humanitarian. Wolverine starts out as a conflicted loner and ends as a memory-less loner. Not much of a change; certainly not one that'd move or engage an audience.
While Iron Man may not have had enough action, Wolverine has too much and it's not quality action. Instead of embracing the raw brutality of Wolverine's powers, the creative team behind this film simply made the action so over-the-top-90s-Die-Hard that Wolverine should've just not had the claws. Explosions are coupled with Logan strutting away and characters have a variety of slowed-down-look-how-cool-we-are moments that just get repetitive and boring. Iron Man embraced the uniqueness of Iron Man's powers, of a man in an iron suit full of gadgets. Iron Man has flares, air brakes, repulser rays, mini-bombs...
One thing that Iron Man clearly has over it's challenger is editing. Wolverine is an editing mess, a hodgepodge of scenes that serve only to get Wolverine from point-A to point-B. There is a variety to the editing of Iron Man, a rhythm that like good music seduces the audience into the film world. Wolverine's flat editing makes an already boring character more boring.
But X-Men Origins: Wolverine's largest flaw is one innate to itself and perhaps has nothing to do with Iron Man. As a prequel, it just doesn't work. This film is not a re-boot, it's a prequel. However, it's a prequel that completely sabotages the established histories of X-Men trilogy. A lot of this results from attempting to shoehorn fan favorites into the film. For example, Wolverine and Sabertooth (one of Magneto's henchmen in X-Men) are revealed to be brothers in this film. Yet in X-Men, Sabertooth never recognizes or speaks about Logan being his brother. The animalistic, quiet portrayal of Sabertooth is not honored in X-Men Origins, and the relationship purported is never logically explained against the backdrop of the franchise.
Another pathetic example of this is the inclusion of Scott Summers so early in the franchise. Also, Charles Xavier makes an appearance...despite the fact that his efforts would've prevented the entire movie's central plot to begin with. And since X2 established that Xavier knew Stryker and his son, a large plot hole lingers as to why Stryker was able to kidnap these students and why he didn't give Wolverine more information in the later movies. At the end of X-Men, Xavier points Wolverine in the direction of Alkali Lake and not the Three Mile Island where this film's climax takes place--the place where Logan loses his memory. William Stryker is seen to be a murderer, and murderer that within fifteen years will have the ear of the United States President somehow. After being shot in the head on Three Miles Island, Wolverine wakes up with no memory of who he is and is met by Gambit (a pathetic-forced character if there ever was one). However in X-Men, when Wolverine goes to find his memories, he never thinks to go back to Three Mile Island or to Gambit...what the hell? And you think there would be some clues; what with that whole nuclear reactor crumbling to shreds and clear evidence of mutant experimentation down below this facility.
Oh, and that fifteen years that takes place between Wolverine and X-Men...well, ignore that. Wolverineis full of high-end modern LCDs and gadgetry. Character ages don't match up with the rest of the trilogy. Instead of embracing the uniqueness of Wolverine's journey through the 70s and 80s, Gavin Hood and Co. neuter any uniqueness for...well, budget reasons maybe? Either way, this is just one of many the continuity errors riddling Wolverine.
Because of this, audiences will find themselves scratching their heads at Wolverine, wondering how it fits into the franchise, contemplating the huge character and mythology changes. And while this at least gives us something to do in a movie that could even bore a PBS telethon host, it's just too much work...it's also depressing to watch a horrible film attempt to maim the detailed and elegant mythologies of Singer's two X-Men films.
What is even more tragic is that screenwriter David Beinoff's (25th Hour, Troy) first pass on this script was a strong depiction of a loner hero seeking revenge, introducing many Marvel favorites while fitting quite seamlessly into the X-Men franchise's canon. Then, Skip Woods comes along to re-write the script, bringing with him all the skill and talent that made 2008's Hitman such a wonderful piece of cinematic trash. It's shameful really.
X-Men Origins: Wolverine is just a mess. Rife with continuity errors, plot holes, poor characterization, and cheesy action, the film fails to ever take its talent or characters seriously enough to make for a compelling adventure. Gone are the themes that made X-Men and X2: X-Men United so compelling: prejudice, race war, alienation. Unlike Iron Man, whose themes on technology and greed were simple and clearly presented in a fun and engaging fashion, X-Men Origins: Wolverine simply doesn't care enough. When it tries to care, we get empty monologues on patriotism and revenge and lame little stories about some lost lover of the moon.
Jackman's return as Wolverine is tragic. X-Men Origins: Wolverine completes the comedic caricature of Wolverine that X-Men: The Last Stand started, presenting a over-serious but somehow always-witty bad ass with a heart of gold. Gone is the ruthless loner of X-Men and X2: X-Men United. This time around, Logan wanders around trying to find the man who killed and whines about a lost love and deals with family issues. Is he a badass? Nope. The entire movie fails to offer a "savage Wolverine moment" like that of the 5-minute sequence in X2 where Logan defends Xavier's mansion.
Compare this to Tony Stark, who is engaging and fun while also lonely and conflicted. It's an engaging mix of characteristics that play nicely into Tony Stark's rise in becoming Iron Man. It also produces variety, as the Tony Stark in one scene is different from other scenes yet always consistent in his central characterization. We appreciate Stark's sarcasm as defense mechanism of his trust issues, and as a natural extension of his ego. Wolverine's always funny, always witty, and always trying so hard to be a bad ass that we're bored with him in the first few minutes. There's no variety and more importantly...
There's absolutely no growth as a character!
The change in Wolverine's character in Wolverine is largely medical, as the movie simply intends to show us how Wolverine became an amnesiac prior to the beginnings of X-Men. These new films by Marvel Studios seem to want to establish and expand worlds, showcasing our favorite heroes development into the one's we know and love. Whatever its flaws, Iron Man does this and does it well. Tony Stark goes from a greedy industrialist to a ruthless armored humanitarian. Wolverine starts out as a conflicted loner and ends as a memory-less loner. Not much of a change; certainly not one that'd move or engage an audience.
While Iron Man may not have had enough action, Wolverine has too much and it's not quality action. Instead of embracing the raw brutality of Wolverine's powers, the creative team behind this film simply made the action so over-the-top-90s-Die-Hard that Wolverine should've just not had the claws. Explosions are coupled with Logan strutting away and characters have a variety of slowed-down-look-how-cool-we-are moments that just get repetitive and boring. Iron Man embraced the uniqueness of Iron Man's powers, of a man in an iron suit full of gadgets. Iron Man has flares, air brakes, repulser rays, mini-bombs...
One thing that Iron Man clearly has over it's challenger is editing. Wolverine is an editing mess, a hodgepodge of scenes that serve only to get Wolverine from point-A to point-B. There is a variety to the editing of Iron Man, a rhythm that like good music seduces the audience into the film world. Wolverine's flat editing makes an already boring character more boring.
But X-Men Origins: Wolverine's largest flaw is one innate to itself and perhaps has nothing to do with Iron Man. As a prequel, it just doesn't work. This film is not a re-boot, it's a prequel. However, it's a prequel that completely sabotages the established histories of X-Men trilogy. A lot of this results from attempting to shoehorn fan favorites into the film. For example, Wolverine and Sabertooth (one of Magneto's henchmen in X-Men) are revealed to be brothers in this film. Yet in X-Men, Sabertooth never recognizes or speaks about Logan being his brother. The animalistic, quiet portrayal of Sabertooth is not honored in X-Men Origins, and the relationship purported is never logically explained against the backdrop of the franchise.
Another pathetic example of this is the inclusion of Scott Summers so early in the franchise. Also, Charles Xavier makes an appearance...despite the fact that his efforts would've prevented the entire movie's central plot to begin with. And since X2 established that Xavier knew Stryker and his son, a large plot hole lingers as to why Stryker was able to kidnap these students and why he didn't give Wolverine more information in the later movies. At the end of X-Men, Xavier points Wolverine in the direction of Alkali Lake and not the Three Mile Island where this film's climax takes place--the place where Logan loses his memory. William Stryker is seen to be a murderer, and murderer that within fifteen years will have the ear of the United States President somehow. After being shot in the head on Three Miles Island, Wolverine wakes up with no memory of who he is and is met by Gambit (a pathetic-forced character if there ever was one). However in X-Men, when Wolverine goes to find his memories, he never thinks to go back to Three Mile Island or to Gambit...what the hell? And you think there would be some clues; what with that whole nuclear reactor crumbling to shreds and clear evidence of mutant experimentation down below this facility.
Oh, and that fifteen years that takes place between Wolverine and X-Men...well, ignore that. Wolverineis full of high-end modern LCDs and gadgetry. Character ages don't match up with the rest of the trilogy. Instead of embracing the uniqueness of Wolverine's journey through the 70s and 80s, Gavin Hood and Co. neuter any uniqueness for...well, budget reasons maybe? Either way, this is just one of many the continuity errors riddling Wolverine.
Because of this, audiences will find themselves scratching their heads at Wolverine, wondering how it fits into the franchise, contemplating the huge character and mythology changes. And while this at least gives us something to do in a movie that could even bore a PBS telethon host, it's just too much work...it's also depressing to watch a horrible film attempt to maim the detailed and elegant mythologies of Singer's two X-Men films.
What is even more tragic is that screenwriter David Beinoff's (25th Hour, Troy) first pass on this script was a strong depiction of a loner hero seeking revenge, introducing many Marvel favorites while fitting quite seamlessly into the X-Men franchise's canon. Then, Skip Woods comes along to re-write the script, bringing with him all the skill and talent that made 2008's Hitman such a wonderful piece of cinematic trash. It's shameful really.
Regarding the first section, yeah I was also going "huh?" when Logan was making quips when he was sparring with Blob.
Seems like with each passing movie the character of Wolverine keeps getting more diluated. Stay tuned for X-Men 5 when he's teamed up with a 50's greaser and looking for crystal skulls.
Second section:
In defense of the first two X-Men movies, they did try to say "In the not too distant future............but it's actually 2000 and 2002 respectively"
but yeah the technology in the adamantium room was "huh?"
I despise the part of the film where he escapes from the facility in a PG-13 rage, and then his escape is turned into a comedy routine with him running naked by the old couple, and then when he old man finds him, they're laughing about how he's naked and Wolverine is like "thank you for your kindness, friend." BARF! This movie was so shitty and didn't seem to even understand what Logan is even about. And man, it still bugs me that they never say onscreen where or why he goes by the name Logan but everyone knows he goes by it. How fucking incompetent can you be as a storyteller and filmmaker!?!
Well, In Wolverine we see Stryker's son again and he's a little boy. Plus Sabertooth told Wolvie that there was no going anywhere without him being there. So I assume they meet again thoughout the years and the only way Wolvie makes him into the dumbass we see in X1, Wolvie must pop his claw into his brain like in the books. I'm thinking sequel.
Deadpool seems fine too me, they just gave him the powers he was supposed to have thru the Weapon-X project. So it was a round about way of turning him into the deformed Deadpool we know. I wouldn't be surprised if/when they do his movie that cancer was the reason he submitted to it.
Everyone knows his name because they were spying on him thru Silverfox. It was obvious he changed his name because the lastthing Sabertooth & Stryker told him was he couldn't walk away and they'd find him.
I have a passing, but not in depth, knowledge of things X-Men. So it was impossible for this film to lose or gain points with me based on any faithfulness to what's in the books.
It was a serviceable, just short of solid, action movie made a bit better by the comic book action not having to be tethered to the laws of reality (the sword/bullet scene, I found excellent, for example). Some of the CGI was a bit spotty, no more so than Patrick Stewart looking like he was drawn onto the final print in peach crayon.
B
It was a serviceable, just short of solid, action movie made a bit better by the comic book action not having to be tethered to the laws of reality (the sword/bullet scene, I found excellent, for example). Some of the CGI was a bit spotty, no more so than Patrick Stewart looking like he was drawn onto the final print in peach crayon.
B
They did it again? They deaged Patrick Stewart?(X3) Whose idea is it that every past scene with Stewart has to have him subjected to CGI manipulation?
Some minor gripes that i've found on other threads
Logans Jacket- He loses his memory at the end but instinctively knows to find the exact same jacket
The dog tags-They changed them from Canadian dog tags to US ones, with some added information.
I must be the only one who thought Xavier looked fine. He didn't look fake at all, just less wrinkly. The BAD CGI was on Wolvie's claws! In the scene where he's playing with them in front of the bathroom mirror, you can actually see the base of the claws wavering around between his knuckles!
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