World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What if the events of the voyage home created a new universe where the whales saved the day and the old universe earth and its people were destroyed.

They didn't.

A timeline where Earth was destroyed never got a chance to form. It wasn't like Kirk and crew came from such a timeline, travelled back and prevented it. They came from their own present, *before* such a timeline had the chance to exist.

 

[Augustus]

What if the events of the voyage home created a new universe where the whales saved the day and the old universe earth and its people were destroyed.

They didn't.

A timeline where Earth was destroyed never got a chance to form. It wasn't like Kirk and crew came from such a timeline, travelled back and prevented it. They came from their own present, *before* such a timeline had the chance to exist.

well that would be the future of the old timeline... no kirk and spock showed up, so adios earth!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What if the events of the voyage home created a new universe where the whales saved the day and the old universe earth and its people were destroyed.

They didn't.

A timeline where Earth was destroyed never got a chance to form. It wasn't like Kirk and crew came from such a timeline, travelled back and prevented it. They came from their own present, *before* such a timeline had the chance to exist.

well that would be the future of the old timeline... no kirk and spock showed up, so adios earth!

There was no 'old timeline' in that film. There was only one.

If you're suggesting that there was a timeline where George and Gracie were never taken from 1986, there's no evidence of that either. That always happened. There was never a timeline where it did not.

 

[Augustus]

They didn't.

A timeline where Earth was destroyed never got a chance to form. It wasn't like Kirk and crew came from such a timeline, travelled back and prevented it. They came from their own present, *before* such a timeline had the chance to exist.

well that would be the future of the old timeline... no kirk and spock showed up, so adios earth!

There was no 'old timeline' in that film. There was only one.

If you're suggesting that there was a timeline where George and Gracie were never taken from 1986, there's no evidence of that either. That always happened. There was never a timeline where it did not.

Just because it wasn't shown doesn't mean it CAN'T happen... no one knows exactly how time travel could work.

 

[gh4chiefs]

The whole story about Vulcan getting destroyed and the species feeling like it's on the vurge of extinction reminds me of the ENT episode "Twilight." I wonder if the writers were aware of this episode when they wrote that storyline.

I've seen the spoilers and have stayed out of the arguments about Roddenberry's vision and all that. And I don't really care about any of the other perceived cannonical errors. I've already made peace with that. It's like the tag line says "This is not your father's ST."

But I have to say, this apparent fate of Vulcan is a bit unsettling to me. The planet Vulcan, to me at least, is an important piece of the Trek universe, almost as important as the characters themselves. It just seems like Vulcan should be part of this ongoing universe, the same as Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

I've had my reservations about this film from day one, (mainly because I'm just not a remake fan), but based on the reviews and comments I was really starting to warm up to it. Until we got to this part about Vulcan. And now I'm really unsettled about it again. Furthermore, I'm kind of taken aback by the overwhelming number of people who are okay with it. I just don't understand it as Vulcan seems to be a very important part of this universe.

Please understand that I'm not calling anybody names or suggesting you boycott or anything like that. I'm perfectly happy to let people enjoy Star Trek going forward however they want to enjoy it, however I'm more than a little surprised how "OK" people are with this one rather startling development.

 

[Franklin]

The whole story about Vulcan getting destroyed and the species feeling like it's on the vurge of extinction reminds me of the ENT episode "Twilight." I wonder if the writers were aware of this episode when they wrote that storyline.

I've seen the spoilers and have stayed out of the arguments about Roddenberry's vision and all that. And I don't really care about any of the other perceived cannonical errors. I've already made peace with that. It's like the tag line says "This is not your father's ST."

But I have to say, this apparent fate of Vulcan is a bit unsettling to me. The planet Vulcan, to me at least, is an important piece of the Trek universe, almost as important as the characters themselves. It just seems like Vulcan should be part of this ongoing universe, the same as Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

I've had my reservations about this film from day one, (mainly because I'm just not a remake fan), but based on the reviews and comments I was really starting to warm up to it. Until we got to this part about Vulcan. And now I'm really unsettled about it again. Furthermore, I'm kind of taken aback by the overwhelming number of people who are okay with it. I just don't understand it as Vulcan seems to be a very important part of this universe.

Please understand that I'm not calling anybody names or suggesting you boycott or anything like that. I'm perfectly happy to let people enjoy Star Trek going forward however they want to enjoy it, however I'm more than a little surprised how "OK" people are with this one rather startling development.

I'm with you to the point that I harp on it. But it's part of the story, and now we have to see just how maturely such an event is handled in future movies. You can't destroy Vulcan and its several billion inhabitants and not revisit it. The ramifications are enormous, from how it affects Spock and hence the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship all the way to to intra-galactic relations. It even calls the efficacy of Starfleet and the entire Federation into question. OK, Nero had 24th century technology and the element of surprise, but still it seems too easy. NOTHING could be done? No Vulcan ground defenses to try to stop the drilling beam from the ground? No ground-based phasers or torpedoes? Nothing?

Besides some of the other things I said way upthread, it also means that in a sense, Nero won. He exacted his revenge. Pike and the Enteprise failed. Spock Prime failed worse than he ever has in his life. He was helpless. Nero got Vulcan for Romulus. No Romulus in Nero's old timeline. No Vulcan in this new one.

Sorry for always ranting about this when it comes up, but it's like picking a scab. Eventually, I'll let the sore heal.

 

[gh4chiefs]

I find myself wondering if I'm going to have a little bit of a "deja vu" experience watching this movie. After I posted my last comment, I remembered my thoughts when I first saw "Wrath of Kahn." I can't recall how I came to know this, but I knew going in that Spock would die and I found myself thinking during the movie "Wow this is a great movie, why do they have to ruin it by killing off Spock?"

So I'm thinking if and when I see STXI, if I'll be thinking "Wow this is a great move, why do they have to ruin it by blowing up Vulcan?" Of course with Spock, we know what happened, they brought him back and all was right with the (Star Trek) world again. So I guess I'll have to see what they do with this, but forgive me if I'm still a little bothered by it.

 

[blueshirt]

I have to agree with gh4chiefs. You've said a lot of the things I've been thinking.

I really was excited about seeing what Zachary Quinto, Karl Urban and the rest would bring to the roles.
I don't care that the bridge gets redesigned or that the Enterprise looks slightly different. They have to look impressive for 2009, not 1966.
If it's true that Kirk goes from cadet to the captain's chair -- well, that's silly under any circumstances, but I'll happily suspend my disbelief for a well-told tale.

But Spock and, by extension, the Vulcans are the first and most thoughtful example Star Trek gave us about accepting aliens and tolerating differences in others. I just don't find a Star Trek universe where Vulcan gets destroyed to be at all inspiring.

Now, I also have no wish to tell any of you what to enjoy. I'm just saying that my enthusiasm for the movie is gone. And I never thought I'd say that.

 

[gh4chiefs]

To me, it just seems . . . wrong somehow.

I get it's a "new reality" and "re-imagining" and all that, and it's going to be different that TOS as I knew it for all these years. And I've come to accept that. But this aspect just seems like too much of a deviation from that original vision, that original universe.

I suppose I'll get over it, and it matters not one whit whether I see the movie or not, or whether I enjoy it or not, but I just can't help but think that Abrams could have made just as good of a movie but not have had to take it that far.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

The whole story about Vulcan getting destroyed and the species feeling like it's on the vurge of extinction reminds me of the ENT episode "Twilight." I wonder if the writers were aware of this episode when they wrote that storyline.

I've seen the spoilers and have stayed out of the arguments about Roddenberry's vision and all that. And I don't really care about any of the other perceived cannonical errors. I've already made peace with that. It's like the tag line says "This is not your father's ST."

But I have to say, this apparent fate of Vulcan is a bit unsettling to me. The planet Vulcan, to me at least, is an important piece of the Trek universe, almost as important as the characters themselves. It just seems like Vulcan should be part of this ongoing universe, the same as Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

I've had my reservations about this film from day one, (mainly because I'm just not a remake fan), but based on the reviews and comments I was really starting to warm up to it. Until we got to this part about Vulcan. And now I'm really unsettled about it again. Furthermore, I'm kind of taken aback by the overwhelming number of people who are okay with it. I just don't understand it as Vulcan seems to be a very important part of this universe.

Please understand that I'm not calling anybody names or suggesting you boycott or anything like that. I'm perfectly happy to let people enjoy Star Trek going forward however they want to enjoy it, however I'm more than a little surprised how "OK" people are with this one rather startling development.

I'm with you to the point that I harp on it. But it's part of the story, and now we have to see just how maturely such an event is handled in future movies. You can't destroy Vulcan and its several billion inhabitants and not revisit it. The ramifications are enormous, from how it affects Spock and hence the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship all the way to to intra-galactic relations. It even calls the efficacy of Starfleet and the entire Federation into question. OK, Nero had 24th century technology and the element of surprise, but still it seems too easy. NOTHING could be done? No Vulcan ground defenses to try to stop the drilling beam from the ground? No ground-based phasers or torpedoes? Nothing?

Besides some of the other things I said way upthread, it also means that in a sense, Nero won. He exacted his revenge. Pike and the Enteprise failed. Spock Prime failed worse than he ever has in his life. He was helpless. Nero got Vulcan for Romulus. No Romulus in Nero's old timeline. No Vulcan in this new one.

Sorry for always ranting about this when it comes up, but it's like picking a scab. Eventually, I'll let the sore heal.

Complacency within the Federation member worlds isn't new either, both the taking over of Betazed and the attack on Earth during the Dominion War proved that. Betazed with its archaic defense systems and the attack by the Breen on Earth was simply down to the fact that no one considered it a likely tactic, as Martok said not even the Klingons attempted that. I'm guessing the same could be said in this instance, did anyone really think that some opponent would dare strike at one of the founding members home planets?

 

[Franklin]

I find myself wondering if I'm going to have a little bit of a "deja vu" experience watching this movie. After I posted my last comment, I remembered my thoughts when I first saw "Wrath of Kahn." I can't recall how I came to know this, but I knew going in that Spock would die and I found myself thinking during the movie "Wow this is a great movie, why do they have to ruin it by killing off Spock?"

So I'm thinking if and when I see STXI, if I'll be thinking "Wow this is a great move, why do they have to ruin it by blowing up Vulcan?" Of course with Spock, we know what happened, they brought him back and all was right with the (Star Trek) world again. So I guess I'll have to see what they do with this, but forgive me if I'm still a little bothered by it.

Well, Spock's death was a little different. It was interwoven into the theme of the story in a way that made it acceptable as part of that story.
What bothers me a little is the movie is trying to be light, action-packed, and deliver a chuckle or two. No big themes. No pathos. No message or allegorical references. By all accounts just a very entertaining romp on the way to stopping a villain. But oh onthe way, Vulcan implodes in a senseless act of mass genocide. Bummer, man.
I think when more people see it on the screen for themselves, they'll wonder what has been wrought. I wonder if Berman could've gotten by with it?

 

[gh4chiefs]

Well, Spock's death was a little different. It was interwoven into the theme of the story in a way that made it acceptable as part of that story.

Well not only that, but when you left the theater after watching "Wrath", you just had to know they had something up their sleeves when you saw his coffin on the Genesis planet.

I'm not sure how they come back from this Vulcan thing short of another time-travel story in the next movie. And I just don't see that happening.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I have to agree, Vulcan bieng destroyed is kinda too much for me. This movie seems more like a scfi movie that got the name Star Trek slapped on it.It's not that i don't think the movie will be cool,it just seems like when your watching Star Trek then sudenly theres a news flash about some crazy explosion, then they say we now return you to your regulary scheduled program. Then you continue watching Star Trek. this movie is that news flash, they just created an alternate universe so they can do whatever they want and do 2 sequels then they will say peace, im out. I doubt it will spawn a new TV. series and I doubt we will see our Trek universe agian, so that just leaves us with random producer/directors doing random movies of no consequence and continuity with the name Star Trek attached to it.The only other solution is in the 2 sequels they fingd a way to send Old Spock back and restore everything back to normal with maybe the exception of Kirk dying in Generations Do I like the Cadilacprise? yes, Bridge? no, the way the Charachters are portrayed? don't know yet, but vulcan getting destroyed cannot be ignored, no doubt, so we will see.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Uh oh, I better figure out how to do spoiler tags for the big ones.

Just look for the button above the text entry box which looks like this:

Gee, I always thought that was the icon for "I'm doing my best to hold in a barf at the notion that someone could say what you just said."

No wonder it doesn't work in TNZ.

 

[EJA]

As much as I'm still looking forward to seeing this movie, I have to agree with some of the posters who feel that destroying Vulcan is taking things a little bit too far.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

"No! Vulcan is a peaceful planet - we have no weapons!"

 

[Jimmy_C]

What if the events of the voyage home created a new universe where the whales saved the day and the old universe earth and its people were destroyed.

They didn't.

A timeline where Earth was destroyed never got a chance to form. It wasn't like Kirk and crew came from such a timeline, travelled back and prevented it. They came from their own present, *before* such a timeline had the chance to exist.

Actually, if you look closely, a new timeline did form. After the window breaks for the first time, there is a pause and you see Sarek looking out the window. The second time the window breaks in the movie, Sarek points out the Klingon Bird-of-Prey. So a new timeline did form.

 

[Franklin]

Complacency within the Federation member worlds isn't new either, both the taking over of Betazed and the attack on Earth during the Dominion War proved that. Betazed with its archaic defense systems and the attack by the Breen on Earth was simply down to the fact that no one considered it a likely tactic, as Martok said not even the Klingons attempted that. I'm guessing the same could be said in this instance, did anyone really think that some opponent would dare strike at one of the founding members home planets?

Complacency is illogical. It is a human emotion.

Comapred to those attacks, or even the destruction of Florida in ENT, out of probably billions, there are fewer than 10,000 Vulcans left according to Spock. That's genocide on the big screen. Serious, show-stopping stuff. Sobering. Honestly, this is the worst thing that's ever happened in on-screen Trek. Thank goodness Scotty will provide comic relief.

Not only how does Spock handle it, but how do Kirk and Pike get over it? The mistake Kirk thought he made in "Obsession" stayed with him for years. Don't you think this should play over and over a few times in his head. What could have been done differently?
Usually in Trek, when the stakes have been this high, our heroes came thorugh. Didn't do this time. That will have to leave a mark.

Not to be judgemental about those shrugging this off, but would this creative decision had been as easy to swallow if Orci and Kurtzman had decided to have Nero destroy Earth instead of Vulcan? What if when the movie ended there were fewer than 10,000 humans left in the galaxy?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

What if the events of the voyage home created a new universe where the whales saved the day and the old universe earth and its people were destroyed.

They didn't.

A timeline where Earth was destroyed never got a chance to form. It wasn't like Kirk and crew came from such a timeline, travelled back and prevented it. They came from their own present, *before* such a timeline had the chance to exist.

Actually, if you look closely, a new timeline did form. After the window breaks for the first time, there is a pause and you see Sarek looking out the window. The second time the window breaks in the movie, Sarek points out the Klingon Bird-of-Prey. So a new timeline did form.

The window breaks, Sarek looks out. (Round One). At that point we cut to the BoP getting ready to go back in time. They adventure in the past and return to the future. The window breaks, Sarek looks out (Round Two). He sees the crashing BoP and points. One sequence of events.

No new timeline in THIS reality. Using the many worlds hypothesis as portrayed by Trek. Is there a world where Kirk and Co DIDN'T save the day? Yes. But it's NOT this world.

 

[FarDreaming]

I was originally very enthusiastic about this movie, until the rumors about the destruction of Vulcan started to surface, and I found myself pulling back. Once not only that was confirmed, but it was disclosed that they also killed off Amanda, well, I have to admit that while I will go to this movie opening day, it is not without a great deal of disappointment and fear that much will be sacrificed just for the shock value. And what had been planned upon originally as multiple theatrical viewings, will probably be scaled back to a single one.