Original Crew = A Step Back?

[stonester1]

Also, all this hue and cry about the characters possibly being desecrated, yet some of the more PC among us blanching at the idea of the film acknowledging Kirk's yen for the ladies?

Can't have it both ways, y'all.

 

[ST-One]

Also, all this hue and cry about the characters possibly being desecrated, yet some of the more PC among us blanching at the idea of the film acknowledging Kirk's yen for the ladies?

Can't have it both ways, y'all.

And I too don't understand what is wrong with showing the character of James R. ... err T. Kirk as he is seen by most people (fans included).

 

[Franklin]

The character of Number One was a bit ahead of her time, and Roddenberry had to cave to network "sensibilities" and give her up (maybe if he'd offered to have put her in a cat suit, things would've been different).
But TOS was able to work quite a few strong female characters into important positions in episodes, even if some of them were wearing mini-skirts (or even less).

As far as major characters on other TV shows go, where are the strong female or minority leads? How is Trek failing in this area compared to other shows where the lead could've been male or female but was male? Hell, why wasn't Greg House made Marge House?
Just within Trek, two subtle but important things were done that you don't see often on TV. A woman, Kate Mulgrew, was the lead in VOY, and an African-American, Avery Brooks, was the lead in DS9. Regarding the latter, there have not been too many shows on TV (I seriously can't think of any now other than I Spy and Room 222, both from the 1960s) that had an African-American actor as the lead of a predominantly white cast.
Trek could've done better. It could've done a hell of a lot worse.

 

[npsf3000]

Sounds exactly like what happened to Star Trek. Get rid of the Number One officer because she was a female. So in essence, we got the original crew due to sexism.

So in essence, we tried a woman, it didn't work, we got rid of her (ending up with a perfect 15% woman ratio).

I fail to see the sexism.


ITS ALL IN YOUR HEAD

 

[Jeyl]

So in essence, we tried a woman, it didn't work, we got rid of her (ending up with a perfect 15% woman ratio).

Well, to paraphrase what you said. If you're going to get rid of a female character that doesn't work, that's an understandable arrangement. However, if you going to say the character doesn't work because she is female, than that's sexism.

However, I fail to see how the character of Number One didn't work.

 

[indranee]

actually, speaking from a woman's POV, skorts (minis, not so much, but I'm assuming that in this case skorts are what we're talking about) are pretty comfortable.

BDUs and flightsuits are pretty comfy, too, and as an added bonus you can take someone wearing them seriously.

slacks and shirt are "normal", huh?

Yep, standard issue.

these guys aren't moron's, the studios have not just wasted millions of dollars, okay, alot of careful thought went into the development, pre-production, filming, post-production and marketing! Jeeeeeez, does anyone really think the people that make these films are clueless, they've been in the business alot longer than any of us...

Of course a lot of what Hollywood puts out is pretty bad, remakes especially. There seems to be a disconnect between what they think people will see as good and what they actually see as good. Same thing with dumbing down movies and TV shows because they underestimate the intelligence of their audience.

Hmmmm tell you what, if it fails maybe paramount will coming knocking on your door asking you how it should be done.

If only...

Bullshit on the "standard issue" bit. we're looking at the 23rd century here. how many species "without foreheads" do you think can ease into a shirt-and-slacks ensemble? stop making an issue out of every fucking thing and stick to your guns on the most significant.

 

[indranee]

The character of Number One was a bit ahead of her time, and Roddenberry had to cave to network "sensibilities" and give her up (maybe if he'd offered to have put her in a cat suit, things would've been different).
But TOS was able to work quite a few strong female characters into important positions in episodes, even if some of them were wearing mini-skirts (or even less).

As far as major characters on other TV shows go, where are the strong female or minority leads? How is Trek failing in this area compared to other shows where the lead could've been male or female but was male? Hell, why wasn't Greg House made Marge House?
Just within Trek, two subtle but important things were done that you don't see often on TV. A woman, Kate Mulgrew, was the lead in VOY, and an African-American, Avery Brooks, was the lead in DS9. Regarding the latter, there have not been too many shows on TV (I seriously can't think of any now other than I Spy and Room 222, both from the 1960s) that had an African-American actor as the lead of a predominantly white cast.
Trek could've done better. It could've done a hell of a lot worse.

TOS had a horrible gender-equality record, let's face it. from the removal of Number One to Janice Lester -- they've got almost nothing with which to redeem themselves. Trek, OTOH, in general, tries.

I agree with Jeyl here, they totaly dropped the ball on Number One. I was waaaay looking forward to seeing her again. I am hoping she might be in a sequel (if we're lucky to get one).

 

[Franklin]

The character of Number One was a bit ahead of her time, and Roddenberry had to cave to network "sensibilities" and give her up (maybe if he'd offered to have put her in a cat suit, things would've been different).
But TOS was able to work quite a few strong female characters into important positions in episodes, even if some of them were wearing mini-skirts (or even less).

As far as major characters on other TV shows go, where are the strong female or minority leads? How is Trek failing in this area compared to other shows where the lead could've been male or female but was male? Hell, why wasn't Greg House made Marge House?
Just within Trek, two subtle but important things were done that you don't see often on TV. A woman, Kate Mulgrew, was the lead in VOY, and an African-American, Avery Brooks, was the lead in DS9. Regarding the latter, there have not been too many shows on TV (I seriously can't think of any now other than I Spy and Room 222, both from the 1960s) that had an African-American actor as the lead of a predominantly white cast.
Trek could've done better. It could've done a hell of a lot worse.

TOS had a horrible gender-equality record, let's face it. from the removal of Number One to Janice Lester -- they've got almost nothing with which to redeem themselves. Trek, OTOH, in general, tries.

I agree with Jeyl here, they totaly dropped the ball on Number One. I was waaaay looking forward to seeing her again. I am hoping she might be in a sequel (if we're lucky to get one).

Well, Roddenberry could've stuck to his guns on Number One, and maybe there wouldn't have been a TV show. As it is, he was barely able to keep a male alien on the show in a major role.

As far as strong and/or professional and/or in authority female characters (human and alien) go, I'd offer (in roughly chronological order and I my miss some):
-- Dr. Elizabeth Dehner
-- Eve McHuron
-- Christine Chapel (in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?")
-- Miri
-- Dr. Helen Noel
-- Number One (who at least wasn't edited out of "The Menagerie")
-- Lt. Areel Shaw, JD
-- Lt. Marla McGivers, historian
-- Mea 3
-- Edith Keeler
-- Uhura (in "Mirror Mirror")
-- Slyvia
-- Nancy Hedford
-- Amanda (Spock's mom)
-- Eleen
-- Dr. Janet Wallace
-- Nona
-- Dr. Ann Mulhall
-- Kelinda
-- The Romulan commander in "The Enterprise Incident"
-- Miramanee
-- Dr. Miranda Jones
-- Mara
-- Natira
-- Philana
-- Elaan
-- Vanna
-- Dr. Janice Lester

Not bad for space opera aimed mostly at a male audience. There's one starship captain (the Romulan), and two science officers (Number One and Mara, a Klingon). And despite often being costumed as "babes," there are government and societal leaders in the group, as well as professionally achieving women. OK, no recurring strong female role with a big part in the regular cast, but at least having one appear in 35 percent of the episodes ain't bad. They weren't perfect, but they could've done plenty worse in portraying women characters.

 

[stonester1]

As far as those issues go, TOS was ahead of it's time.

FULL STOP.

 

[stonester1]

Nero as a woman?

I'd have no problem with it. But then, the feministas would get on a tear about an "angry woman" blah blah...

You know it's true.

 

[superdeluxe]

Oh geez. A step back? We should not make movies to further political/equal right type issues. Why stop at just a woman, Why isn't there a african american or a hispanic on the crew? We should also have a homosexual male as well in a new crew. It is fine the way it is.

 

[Franklin]

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way, but I can't help myself. Why are we going from a series that literally took a chance in Star Trek Voyager at having a female captain with an almost equal male/female ratio BACK to the 6 to 1 ratio again?

Well, they wanted to go back to the original cast of characters, and that was the ratio. I guess they could've "gone Battlestar" on one or two, but they didn't.

As it is, it'd would've been imaginative and progressive to have made Nero's character a woman. There's no reason why he had to be male.

 

[Captain X]

Also, all this hue and cry about the characters possibly being desecrated, yet some of the more PC among us blanching at the idea of the film acknowledging Kirk's yen for the ladies?

Can't have it both ways, y'all.

It's not, really. Despite the vision so many people seem to have of him as an action hero with a phaser in one hand and a girl in the other, even out of the fairly limited run of TOS he didn't have that many affairs. And really, if I would have changed anything, it would have been that anyway. Besides, I thought JJ was supposed to be all about getting rid of the old corniness.

Bullshit on the "standard issue" bit. we're looking at the 23rd century here. how many species "without foreheads" do you think can ease into a shirt-and-slacks ensemble? stop making an issue out of every fucking thing and stick to your guns on the most significant.

Yeah, there're a ton of non-humanoid aliens even in the new movie... Oh, wait, there's not. And even if there were, it wouldn't excuse the minidress and fuck-me boots - it's just not professional. This is the same reason I complain about the catsuits various female crewmembers have worn, and even the original minidress uniform from TOS. What's somewhat surprising is that JJ and pals found a way to make it even more sexist.

 

[Takeru]

The character of Number One was a bit ahead of her time, and Roddenberry had to cave to network "sensibilities" and give her up (maybe if he'd offered to have put her in a cat suit, things would've been different).

But the network had no problem with Number One, they had a problem with Majel Barrett, the network's memo after The Cage made that pretty clear. It was Roddenberry's decision to drop the character, because he didn't want to recast the part. He ditched Numer One and blamed the network, typical Roddenberry bullshit.

 

[Jeyl]

Well, McCoy says in one trailer that they've got no captain and no first officer... Maybe Pike and Number One are taken out at the same time...

Spock is the first officer, and notice how he isn't on the bridge when Kirk sits on the big chair.

Oh geez. A step back? We should not make movies to further political/equal right type issues. Why stop at just a woman, Why isn't there a african american or a hispanic on the crew? We should also have a homosexual male as well in a new crew. It is fine the way it is.

Star Trek changed through out the years. Don't you remember the very last TOS episode "Turnabout Intruder" where the episode specifically states that women cannot be Captain of a Starship? No other character refuted that claim. And now this new Trek movie is going back at this very time line where sexism still exists. They said they were going to be true to the Canon and Lore!

Thankfully Nimoy put the very first female captain in Star Trek IV and as the serires progressed, we got a female captain of the Enterprise C, a female Adiral and a whole entire show with a female captain and the closest male/female ratio in regards to the crew. Why are we now back to the time and period where all that's been changed for the better are now moot?

 

[T'Paul]

Was the movie sexist?

I haven't made up my mind yet. There were no women in leadership roles. The female character with the most screentime stripped onscreen and wore a mini-skirt for most of the movie. Kirk's mother proposed a name for Kirk, and then his father totally blew her off.

However, there were no blatantly sexist remarks or anything, so it's tough to outright label the movie as sexist.

What do you think?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

I think you've been a member here for a few hours and already have a very specific attitude toward the moderators shutting down troublemakers - reflected in your sig "It is wrong for moderators to censor posts just for having viewpoints they disagree with."

This is even lamer than the attempt to get everyone worked up about "gay Spock." You are not good at this.

 

[Phily B]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

Maybe they didn't want to give us flashbacks to Janeway.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

I did not find it sexist. I do found the percentage of women too small. Especially those with miniskirts. Don't women go to the Academy or something?

Also, I saw no one stripping. Uhura took her shirt off, but that hardly constitutes stripping. So in what scene did the stripping take place?

And yes, the miniskirts. Finally something realistic (real women wear them too, you know) back in Star Trek after been taken out of the show by (assumed) feminist gangs.

 

[Amaris]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

I think you've been a member here for a few hours and already have a very specific attitude toward the moderators shutting down troublemakers - reflected in your post.

This is even lamer than the attempt to get everyone worked up about "gay Spock." You are not good at this.

Agreed.


J.