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Original Crew = A Step Back?

Jeyl

Commodore
Commodore
This is probably the stupidest thread I think I'm going to make on this forum. I've tried and failed to express why I believe the new Wonder Woman animated movie wasn't a good representation on what made her, well, Wonder Woman. I've also tried to convince Star Wars fans that Padme's death was one of the most poorly written character deaths that makes Kirk's death in Generations look like Shakespeare. But what I'm about to discuss is pretty much aiming against the very thing I've liked ever since I've gotten into Star Trek. And that thing I challenge is the original crew being mostly populated by males.

Folks, I've got nothing against the original crew. I love Kirk, Spock, Bones, Uhura, Sulu, Chekov and Scotty. But since this crew outnumbers the female crew members six to one, don't you think the idea of going with essentially EVERYONE of the original crew kind of diminish the idea of an optimistic future where females can become first officers and captain their own ship?

Just look at "The Cage". Gene Roddenberry wanted a very capable female crew member who actually had a position that was high in profile, but the studio didn't want that so what we got now was an operator named Uhura, a Yeoman who clings to the closest man in her proximity and is always victimized. And don't forget the obligatory nurse who the series actually abandoned by the time the movies came out.

I think it's also funny how every time there is an attempt to put a female in a bridge position that's not limited to just answering calls or taking your coats, they always somehow get removed. Illia was a cool looking character, but she got zapped and was never heard from again. Saavik was awesome as a helmsman in Star Trek II, but she disappeared for no good reason in Star Trek IV and never came back. And than we have Valeris who, for being the only outside crew member of the original cast was the traitor of the bunch.

I wish I could mention Janeway as a strong candidate for a female role, but she was so horribly written in the long run of the show that she came off more of an arrogant sissy than a strong and capable Captain. At least Sisco had the decency to look past gender and actually get his crew to do better at what they do. Archer doesn't get jack since he only gave one uniform to one female crew member while the other one got a skin tight outfit.

Which brings me to ST09. I really don't think going with ALL of the original crew members was the way to go in this movie. As I said earlier, I love the original crew, but this isn't supposed to be the exact Star Trek we know. Like why couldn't they have written Number One from the Cage into this movie? Why does Uhura still have to be a background comms officer? Why couldn't it have been Kirk's mother who captained the Kelvin instead of his father (Ya, isn't that idea just stupid)? I know she's supposed to be giving birth and all during the attack, but why does every plot detail have to fall on the soft cushy pillow of cliché? Kirk follows in his father's footsteps, Spock follows in his fathers path towards being a Vulcan, and Uhura looks like she's there only to be the person we see undress and the one to hug.

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way, but I can't help myself. Why are we going from a series that literally took a chance in Star Trek Voyager at having a female captain with an almost equal male/female ratio BACK to the 6 to 1 ratio again?
 
My uneducated guess would be because...,


... TWO GUYS WROTE THE MOVIE STORY...

;)
 
My uneducated guess would be because...,

... SEVERAL GUYS WROTE THE MOVIE...

;)
And J.J. Wrote and created Alias, Felicity, Lost and actually gave the female characters in MI3 something to do. Heck, Trekmovie.com even commented on how good he handles female characters. I'll try and find it. 1 moment.
 
I agree that they should have had Number One in this movie, but hey whatchagonnado?

Also Number One's character traits clash with those of Spock, who inherited most of them in the character reshuffle after The Cage.
 
My uneducated guess would be because...,

... SEVERAL GUYS WROTE THE MOVIE...


;)
And J.J. Wrote and created Alias, Felicity, Lost and actually gave the female characters in MI3 something to do. Heck, Trekmovie.com even commented on how good he handles female characters. I'll try and find it. 1 moment.


JJ didn't write the movie script... Orci & Kurtzman (Sp?) did.
 
JJ didn't write the movie script... Orci & Kurtzman (Sp?) did.

They ALSO wrote episodes for Alias, and even Xena. And just because J.J. isn't writing it doesn't mean he didn't have influence in the matter.
 
JJ didn't write the movie script... Orci & Kurtzman (Sp?) did.

They ALSO wrote episodes for Alias, and even Xena. And just because J.J. isn't writing it doesn't mean he didn't have influence in the matter.


OK... OK.. Don't git yer knickers in a twit...:(

My observation was not meant to disenfranchise your comments...

I was just saayin'... jeeesss... ;)
 
My observation was not meant to disenfranchise your comments...

I was just saayin'... jeeesss... ;)

Oh, I understand and I'm happy you're stating your intents. I just didn't want the way you put it to be misinterpreted that guys can't write good female characters.
 
My observation was not meant to disenfranchise your comments...

I was just saayin'... jeeesss... ;)

Oh, I understand and I'm happy you're stating your intents. I just didn't want the way you put it to be misinterpreted that guys can't write good female characters.



LOL ...

ummm...

... well apparently, according to your opening post, it's evident that these Guys DIDN'T, in this particular case... :lol:
 
Okay lets think of a couple reasons why there wouldn't be a lot of women on the command bridge of the USS enterprise.

1) Women tend not to be placed in front line positions.

2) Psychological and Physiological differences make there be more male competition for roles such as, captain, helmsman, science officer, security, navigation, weapons officer etc.

3) Long term commitments can conflict with a woman's maternal instincts.

4) Testosterone.

I think people call discrimination a the call of an often imaginary hat.
 
ummm.. well apparently, according to your opening post, it's evident that these Guys DIDN'T in this particular case... :lol:

Well, for one thing I have not seen the movie and another thing is that I'm only going with what JJ, the studio and the writers are showing us. And what they're showing us isn't the most promising representation of what I hope they do for this story. The second trailer only showed Uhura undressing, and you had to watch the international version of the 3rd trailer just to get a line from Uhura.

What I would like to get out of this post is what you think of the idea of Star Trek going from what it achieved to get out (A female leading captain) back to a male dominant crew with only one female character to stand out? Unfortunately all i've been getting is shrugs and lols.

And while I do think these writers have proven that they can write great female characters (unlike Christopher Nolan and those who work under him), it just looks like they're taking a step back like James Cameron did for True Lies (Jamie Lee Curtis' character was used and useless).
 
My guess would be because its a movie based on a show called Star Trek that had only one main female bridge crew member.

In world explanation, maybe by the 23rd century they don't have to take care to have an even number of men and women on the bridge and maybe some ships have more women officers and others have more men. Just the way the cookie crumbles.
 
ummm.. well apparently, according to your opening post, it's evident that these Guys DIDN'T in this particular case... :lol:

Well, for one thing I have not seen the movie and another thing is that I'm only going with what JJ, the studio and the writers are showing us. And what they're showing us isn't the most promising representation of what I hope they do for this story. The second trailer only showed Uhura undressing, and you had to watch the international version of the 3rd trailer just to get a line from Uhura.

What I would like to get out of this post is what you think of the idea of Star Trek going from what it achieved to get out (A female leading captain) back to a male dominant crew with only one female character to stand out? Unfortunately all i've been getting is shrugs and lols.

And while I do think these writers have proven that they can write great female characters (unlike Christopher Nolan and those who work under him), it just looks like they're taking a step back like James Cameron did for True Lies (Jamie Lee Curtis' character was used and useless).


I'm sorry...

We're talking about a film that was made to be a Summer Action-Fest, Box Office, Smash Hit...

I really don't think TPTB were too concerned with how women are portrayed in the final script.

And That's not an indication on my part, that your points aren't valid...,

I just don't think that that was really one of Their main concerns, during the production of this film.
 
Considering what having a female captain did for Star Trek, perhaps they decided to go back to a formula of what actually worked?
If this movie is as successful as we all hope it to be, JJ & Co. will have a sequel in which to add more strong female roles. He has a track record for doing so. This was a male dominated series JJ Abrams is recreating. It will take time to develop.
 
...

What I would like to get out of this post is what you think of the idea of Star Trek going from what it achieved to get out (A female leading captain) back to a male dominant crew with only one female character to stand out? Unfortunately all i've been getting is shrugs and lols.

...
Judging by the reaction to what has been changed (or not been changed) and to which characters and which events/places/ships have or have not been included in the movie, I think it's safe to assume that no matter what Abrams and Company chose to do, they wouldn't have been able to please everyone. I guess the other side of your question would be: What would be the reaction if any of those main characters had been omitted?

Would there have been a hue and cry raised if there had been no Scotty? No Sulu? No Uhura? No Chekov? We've certainly had pages of spirited argument over the non-appearance of Gary Mitchell, Captain Garrovick and the Republic, Finnegan and others, and then there have been more arguments over whether all of the characters included are being portrayed as they should be.

I know from an interview we saw recently with writers Orci and Kurtzman that they were acutely aware of the impossibility of pleasing every single Trek fan, but got the distinct impression that they tried anyway, as best they could, to strike a balance between what we saw in the old series and what we'll see in the new movie.

Might that balance change and evolve if and when we get another movie? I'd be very surprised if it didn't. Might we see a female captain? I wouldn't be surprised at that, either.
 
1) Women tend not to be placed in front line positions.

2) Psychological and Physiological differences make there be more male competition for roles such as, captain, helmsman, science officer, security, navigation, weapons officer etc.

3) Long term commitments can conflict with a woman's maternal instincts.

4) Testosterone.

I think people call discrimination a the call of an often imaginary hat.

Well it's nice that we have folks here who still look at women at face value by putting them in positions due to how they compare to men and NOT at what women are capable of doing. Judge a book by it's cover is not the most appropriate method of drawing a conclusion, especially when it comes to Star Trek's optimistic approach of the future where viewpoints like this have no relevance in a judgement of character.

And I will have you know that there are over fifty women in the military who bear the rank of Admiral and General in the United States military.
 
Doesn't look like they struck much of a balance to me. It's tipped decidedly in favor of the REBOOT! crowd that thinks making Star Trek into a retro-future, action-packed ADHD jizz-fest because they think that will make a franchise already stigmatized because of its name into something "popular" with the "mainstream" audiences.

It's true, not every fan is going to get what they want, but tearing everything up and spitting on it isn't going to produce any kind of balance.
 
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