Star Trek III question...

[Paris]

When Sarek visited Kirk and asked him to bring Spock's katra to Mount Selaya, why was it neccesary for Kirk and his crew to steal the Enterprise in order to do it? At the time that they were stealing the ship, Kirk & co. had no idea that Spock had been rejuvenated on the Genesis planet. As far as Kirk was concerned, Spock's body burned up in Genesis' atmosphere, so there was nothing to recover on Genesis. Spock's katra, at the time, resided within Dr. McCoy. If Sarek wanted the katra returned to the Hall of Thought (from the books) at Selaya, then all Kirk needed to do was bring McCoy to Vulcan and perform the ceremony. It wouldn't have beeen illegal for Kirk and McCoy to do so. Did I miss some dialogue? Why were they going to Genesis?

 

[DonIago]

If memory serves, while editing the movie they removed a segment where Kirk learns that Spock's body has been found on Genesis.

 

[Paris]

If memory serves, while editing the movie they removed a segment where Kirk learns that Spock's body has been found on Genesis.

That's some pretty crazy editing changes then. We don't even find out that Spock is alive again until about 55 minutes into the flick. Captain Esteban didn't contact command with the news...only that the torpedo tube had been found and that it soft landed. Maybe this set Kirk off on the trip to Genesis? Did Sarek ever mention that the body was needed for the ceremony as well?

 

[The_Beef]

I always knew there was something about this movie that didn't make sense, I guess I never really sat back to think about it.

 

[shapeshifter]

That it took 24 years for this flaw to be revealed says something positive about the editing.

 

[Paris]

This has to have been mentioned before at some point. It's a pretty big error, but I still can't find any mention of it. Does anyone know if it was an editing error for sure? Is this mentioned or documented somewhere? Is it mentioned in the special features section of the special edition DVD?

 

[FarDreaming]

When Sarek visited Kirk and asked him to bring Spock's katra to Mount Selaya, why was it neccesary for Kirk and his crew to steal the Enterprise in order to do it? At the time that they were stealing the ship, Kirk & co. had no idea that Spock had been rejuvenated on the Genesis planet. As far as Kirk was concerned, Spock's body burned up in Genesis' atmosphere, so there was nothing to recover on Genesis. Spock's katra, at the time, resided within Dr. McCoy. If Sarek wanted the katra returned to the Hall of Thought (from the books) at Selaya, then all Kirk needed to do was bring McCoy to Vulcan and perform the ceremony. It wouldn't have beeen illegal for Kirk and McCoy to do so. Did I miss some dialogue? Why were they going to Genesis?

I have to watch this again to be sure, but at that point,I don't think they realize that Spock's katra is in McCoy. In the previous scene, Sarek had thought that Kirk had it, so I think that McCoy's part is still an unknown. Sarek would have wanted Spock's body returned to Vulcan if there might still be a chance of retrieving his katra.

 

[Paris]

Kirk and Sarek look through the engineering video log (TWOK footage) together, and discover that Spock melded with McCoy before he died. You know...the whole "remember" scene. At this point they realize that the Katra is in McCoy. Kirk knew before he went to Genesis that the Katra was already in their hands (so to speak)...so the question still remains...

 

[FarDreaming]

Kirk and Sarek look through the engineering video log (TWOK footage) together, and discover that Spock melded with McCoy before he died. You know...the whole "remember" scene. At this point they realize that the Katra is in McCoy. Kirk knew before he went to Genesis that the Katra was already in their hands (so to speak)...so the question still remains...

You've obviously watched this a lot more recently than I have, LOL! (Actually, had been planning to do myself next week... ) The older one gets the less one should depend on memory!

( Wishing I could get it to work like I used to!)

 

[David cgc]

Kirk and Sarek look through the engineering video log (TWOK footage) together, and discover that Spock melded with McCoy before he died. You know...the whole "remember" scene. At this point they realize that the Katra is in McCoy. Kirk knew before he went to Genesis that the Katra was already in their hands (so to speak)...so the question still remains...

Ah, but in that same scene, Sarek says (something to the effect of (emphasis mine)), "One alive, one not, yet both in pain. You must bring them both to Mount Selaya. Only there will they both find peace."

Because of the way the film worked out, and the fact they didn't spend too much time on the original plan, it wasn't made clear that, all things being equal, the Vulcan masters simply couldn't get Spock's katra out of McCoy's head unless they had Spock's corpse handy.

 

[Basil]

That it took 24 years for this flaw to be revealed says something positive about the editing.

Not precisely -- some of us who saw it in theaters in 1984 wondered the same thing, as well as why Kirk had transformed from the relatively sanguine character at the end of TWOK to the obsessed TJ Hooker-ish figure he was in TSFS. I recall being fairly disappointed with how TSFS basically undid everything from the superior previous film, went nowhere with secondary characters like David Marcus and Saavik, provided some of the dopiest Federation folk and campiest Klingons since TTWT, and though it took nearly two years to make, only advanced things in the Trek universe a few months. On the whole, I found it to be an inferior film, mawkish in sentiment and dweeby in humor, though a few scenes -- Sarek's mindmeld, the destruction of the Enterprise, the return to Vulcan -- deserved to be in a much, much better film.

 

[Paris]

Kirk and Sarek look through the engineering video log (TWOK footage) together, and discover that Spock melded with McCoy before he died. You know...the whole "remember" scene. At this point they realize that the Katra is in McCoy. Kirk knew before he went to Genesis that the Katra was already in their hands (so to speak)...so the question still remains...

Ah, but in that same scene, Sarek says (something to the effect of (emphasis mine)), "One alive, one not, yet both in pain. You must bring them both to Mount Selaya. Only there will they both find peace."

Because of the way the film worked out, and the fact they didn't spend too much time on the original plan, it wasn't made clear that, all things being equal, the Vulcan masters simply couldn't get Spock's katra out of McCoy's head unless they had Spock's corpse handy.

I, like most people, took Sarek's line of "them both" to mean the two of them in McCoy's mind. If Sarek needed the body, then Kirk would have just told him that it wasn't possible because Kirk had fired his body at the planet in a torpedo tube. At this point in the movie no one had any idea that the torpedo tube had made a soft landing on Genesis and that Spock's body had been rejuvenated.

 

[David cgc]

Well, as scripted, the opening sequence of the movie would've been Grissom finding Spock's torpedo intact and reporting in. Kirk's opening log entry would've made it explicit that he knew they'd found Spock's tube, but it was rerecorded when that scene was moved to the very beginning of the movie, before they found out about Spock's body.

So much for fixing it in the editing room.

 

[Sky]

Well, as scripted, the opening sequence of the movie would've been Grissom finding Spock's torpedo intact and reporting in. Kirk's opening log entry would've made it explicit that he knew they'd found Spock's tube, but it was rerecorded when that scene was moved to the very beginning of the movie, before they found out about Spock's body.

So much for fixing it in the editing room.

Wait. I could swear that in the DVD version I have seen, Kirk is logging about being strangely disturbed (or something) about the news he's received about Spock's tube being found intact on Genesis.

 

[Paris]

Well, as scripted, the opening sequence of the movie would've been Grissom finding Spock's torpedo intact and reporting in. Kirk's opening log entry would've made it explicit that he knew they'd found Spock's tube, but it was rerecorded when that scene was moved to the very beginning of the movie, before they found out about Spock's body.

So much for fixing it in the editing room.

Awesome ! This is exactly what I was wondering. The scene with the Grissom being at the beginning would have made it make sense. Where did you find this out ? I've been wondering about this for awhile...

 

[DonIago]

It's in the novelization but not in the movie.

 

[Therin of Andor]

When Sarek visited Kirk and asked him to bring Spock's katra to Mount Selaya, why was it neccesary for Kirk and his crew to steal the Enterprise in order to do it?

This was a whole thread only last February:
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=2658836#post2658836

 

[trevanian]

That it took 24 years for this flaw to be revealed says something positive about the editing.

You gotta be kidding, right? For some reason, my mother -- whose knowledge of TREK was pretty much nonexistent -- went with me to see the movie, and even SHE mentioned aloud that there was something missing with respect to all this 'go back to Vulcan' crap, WHILE THE MOVIE WAS ON.

EDIT ADDON: Oh, I see Basil covered all this (except for the part about my mom.)

 

[Basil]

I would have gotten to it.

 

[Grant]

If memory serves, while editing the movie they removed a segment where Kirk learns that Spock's body has been found on Genesis.

That's some pretty crazy editing changes then. We don't even find out that Spock is alive again until about 55 minutes into the flick. Captain Esteban didn't contact command with the news...only that the torpedo tube had been found and that it soft landed. Maybe this set Kirk off on the trip to Genesis? Did Sarek ever mention that the body was needed for the ceremony as well?

DonIago is right. You can read the script a dozen places online.

The scenes of David/grissom occured much earlier in the script. The first scene is the discovery of the tube 'intact'. The second is Kirk's V.O. where he says' "the news of Spock's tube has shaken me"

So he knew right from the start that the tube and perhaps his body had survived. In the editing process they changed the order and redid the opening voice-over.