Getting something right that the franchise has often failed at.

[cynical dreamer]

Just a quick thought on something the new movie appears to be doing far better than the other shows/movies. Too often on the other shows other starfleet captains and admirals and other staff on other ships other than the Enterprise were all too often shown as bumbling/incompetent/up to no good.

I realize why it was done (to serve a particular plotline) but I found it grew wearisome. I'm thinking of the various admirals over the years, that science ship captain from TSFS, Captain Harriman from GEN, etc, etc...

And with the new movie I egt the impression that the rest of starfleet outside the Enterprise is being treated as being equal in competency to our crew.

Anyone else sense the same?

 

[Classic Fan]

Well, as we have only seen seconds of footage/dialogue from other characters that are not the regulars, i cant really answer.

However, from what we have seen and heard, it appears that that is the case. Ranking officers, well all we have seen so far is Spock and Pike in a command postion, and it appears they are of equal compitence, allbeit or different abilities.


So yeah, id agree given on what we know (Psst, i havnt read the spoilers, so, spoiled people, you know who you are, im assuming )

 

[Temis the Vorta]

On DS9, I don't recall any implication that Starfleet was anything but highly competent. Granted, they spent more time with alien enemies and allies than anyone in Starfleet, but there was a big ole honkin' war going on, and if Our Heroes on that Cardassian hunk of junk space station were the only ones who knew what they were doing, they wouldn't have stood a chance.

I guess Admiral Ross is a good example of a non-regular Starfleeter. He may have been a stuffed shirt (the scene where he chokes on the newly-legalized Romulan Ale that everyone drinks like fishes told you all you needed to know about the guy ) but he was a good guy and certainly competent.

 

[urbandk]

If you're referring to the whole Esteban/Harriman phenomenon, then yeah, no bumblng idiots, but I think Starfleet is more or less par for the course here.

 

[Data Holmes]

To this day I still think that the Harriman character was not in this class of "officer".

He was a good captain who was nervous as hell because three of "the greats" including the man him self, Kirk, were on his ship. And he got fucked over by starfleet pushing the ship out before it was fully staffed or fitted in the name of a press junket/event.

 

[indranee]

doesn't Captain Robau already have enough threads?

 

[Skywalker]

To this day I still think that the Harriman character was not in this class of "officer".

He was a good captain who was nervous as hell because three of "the greats" including the man him self, Kirk, were on his ship. And he got fucked over by starfleet pushing the ship out before it was fully staffed or fitted in the name of a press junket/event.

Agreed. His confidence wasn't scheduled to arrive until Tuesday.

 

[Data Holmes]

To this day I still think that the Harriman character was not in this class of "officer".

He was a good captain who was nervous as hell because three of "the greats" including the man him self, Kirk, were on his ship. And he got fucked over by starfleet pushing the ship out before it was fully staffed or fitted in the name of a press junket/event.

Agreed. His confidence wasn't scheduled to arrive until Tuesday.

 

[Bill Morris]

Admiral Forrest in ENT seemed competent, even heroic when he died saving a Vulcan's life.

 

[donners22]

^ Indeed, and there was another captain in Enterprise who was made to look very good as well (one might say it wouldn't be hard to be portrayed better than Archer).

It was very much a TOS and TNG thing to have mad/incompetent admirals in particular, though it was at least as much novels as canon.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

To this day I still think that the Harriman character was not in this class of "officer".

He was a good captain who was nervous as hell because three of "the greats" including the man him self, Kirk, were on his ship. And he got fucked over by starfleet pushing the ship out before it was fully staffed or fitted in the name of a press junket/event.

Plus he's the first person other than Kirk to command a ship called the Enterprise in a long while.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

To this day I still think that the Harriman character was not in this class of "officer".

He was a good captain who was nervous as hell because three of "the greats" including the man him self, Kirk, were on his ship. And he got fucked over by starfleet pushing the ship out before it was fully staffed or fitted in the name of a press junket/event.

Not to mention that he was a young captain. If anybody frakked up, it was Starfleet for giving the flagship to an inexperienced CO.

On the OT:

Interestingly, TOS has MORE incompetent/crazy/et al ship commander stories than any other Trek:

TOS

• Capt Tracy
• Commodore Stocker
• Commodore Decker
• Capt Merrick (almost made it into Starfleet captaincy)
• Janice Lester (likewise as Merrick)
• Capt Estiban
• Adm Cartwright

TNG

• Adm Jamison
• Adm Pressman
• unnamed Chief of Starfleet Intelligence
• Capt Maxwell
• Adm Dougherty

DS9

• Adm Leighton
• Capt Bentine

VOY

can't think of any

ENT

can't think of any


Note that I didn't include Captains, etc that were just pricks or otherwise hard to deal with (Styles, Ross, Solok, et al)

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Plus [Harriman] is the first person other than Kirk to command a ship called the Enterprise in a long while.

Going by the Okuda chronology, that's not true. The way the line is played in the film makes it sound like Kirk commanded the Enterprise since the 2260s. It's only about eight years since Kirk took command of the Enterprise-A. The last years of the refit Enterprise were commanded by Spock as the Starfleet Academy trainee vessel. And let's not forget Will Decker.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Interestingly, TOS has MORE incompetent/crazy/et al ship commander stories than any other Trek.

Yep. That's the way I see it too. Mainly to reinforce how great Kirk was mainly. Although they were usually his heroes, who's "exploits were required reading at the Academy". With some many to list, it only reinforced how Kirk was a lousy judge of character.

VOY

can't think of any

Ransom. Who was willing to sacrifice as many members of an alien race as needed, to get the Equinox crew home.

ENT

can't think of any

Archer was mostly out there on his own, because of the nature of the Warp 5 breakthrough.

In Silent Enemy, there's a joke he and Trip share about somebody named Duvall, getting his own command. Archer remarks he's glad to be many light years away. Probably nothing more than idle gossip, until a future novel elaborates.

 

[urbandk]

Interestingly, TOS has MORE incompetent/crazy/et al ship commander stories than any other Trek.

Yep. That's the way I see it too. Mainly to reinforce how great Kirk was mainly. Although they were usually his heroes, who's "exploits were required reading at the Academy". With some many to list, it only reinforced how Kirk was a lousy judge of character.

Yeah, that was a pretty lousy gimmick.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Interestingly, TOS has MORE incompetent/crazy/et al ship commander stories than any other Trek.

Yep. That's the way I see it too. Mainly to reinforce how great Kirk was mainly. Although they were usually his heroes, who's "exploits were required reading at the Academy". With some many to list, it only reinforced how Kirk was a lousy judge of character.

VOY

can't think of any

Ransom. Who was willing to sacrifice as many members of an alien race as needed, to get the Equinox crew home.

ENT

can't think of any

Archer was mostly out there on his own, because of the nature of the Warp 5 breakthrough.

In Silent Enemy, there's a joke he and Trip share about somebody named Duvall, getting his own command. Archer remarks he's glad to be many light years away. Probably nothing more than idle gossip, until a future novel elaborates.

I can't beleive I forgot about Ransom...

Of course I also forgot Garth of Izar (TOS)...

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Interestingly, TOS has MORE incompetent/crazy/et al ship commander stories than any other Trek.

Yep. That's the way I see it too. Mainly to reinforce how great Kirk was mainly. Although they were usually his heroes, who's "exploits were required reading at the Academy". With some many to list, it only reinforced how Kirk was a lousy judge of character.

Yeah, that was a pretty lousy gimmick.

To be fair, that only applied to Garth.

And I almost left Decker off the list because he wasn't a BAD CO, he was just shattered by what had happened to his crew.

 

[LutherSloan]

You can't forget Ransom, he was in the same league as Garth.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

You can't forget Ransom, he was in the same league as Garth.

Depends on whether you see Ransom as mentally ill or just bad.

 

[Jeyl]

How about getting female characters to be useful and not being bound to just supporting the other characters?

Or how about not using the Gorns or Tholians for more than a 30 year period?