Theory about Christian (SPOILERS, duh)

[exodus]

I'm trying to remember this correctly. It didn't pass judgment on Mr. Eko then kill him, did it? Didn't it say that if Mr. Eko asked for forgiveness then he could live, but Eko said "no, I nothing to be sorry about. I did what I did to survive." It was then that smokey killed him. Not because he was guilty, but rather because he wouldn't ask for forgiveness.

Which is really interesting because we haven't seen smokey ever give anyone else that choice to make. Was it because Eko was a religious man and the others smokey killed were not? Does Smokey kill you based on your faith (or lack of it)? If your catholic do you get a chance to attone for your sins like you do in confession? So, if smokey had shown up to kill Charlie (who was also catholic) would Charlie have been given the chance to ask for forgiveness? If you have no religious beliefs does it kill you without thought? What happens if you are Jewish or a Hindu? Is Smokey some sort of guide to the afterlife (The Egyptians believed in something like that didn't they?) and as a "guide" to the afterlife does it judge you based on how you judge yourself?

It's not about being religous.

Echo was religious but was also a man that used violence as a solution, which is hypocritical of what religion is meant to teach. Due to Echo not seeing the wrong in violence, Smokey passed judgement on him and killed him. The Island thru the "spirits" certain people meet are testing them. It asks them clever questions that reveals themselves.

Remember when Ben summoned it? Ben said he didn't control it, yet it only went after the military men. The men holding guns.

Rousseau called it a security system for the island. So it stands to reason it kills those on the island that it views as threatening.

But what about the pilot? He never was visited, just outright killed and then smokey chased Jack, Kate & Charlie. If it wasn't going to kill them then why chase them? Why did it try and take Locke? Why did it take one of Russo's crew, but not the others? Why did it try and get Kate and Juliet? And since it did try and get them, why hasn't it tried to get them again? Why did it let the Widmore's Mercs live and not kill them like it has done to everyone else it has attacked?

There has got to be a lot more going on that we don't know (obviously) but so far the only times we have seen it give someone a chance to go free was when it gave Eko a chance to ask for forgiveness for what he had done and he said no, so it killed him. And another time when it rose up above Locke but didn't kill him (we still don't know what Locke saw (except it was beautiful)) and we don't know if it talked to him or not at that time.

We are also assuming that Smokey and the "ghosts" are one and the same, when really it could be two different beings. It could be that smokey roams the island killing whoever it wants and then when the "Ghosts" call it it shows up and kills whoever the "ghosts" tell it to before goingback to doing its own thing.

Pay closer attention to what is happening and/or the conversations taking place when it shows up.

As I said, Russo called it a security system for the island.
It wanted Locke but Locke wants to be taken by it because he doesn't fear it.
It chased Juliet & Kate but didn't kill them. They hide in a tree and you saw flashes from it. If it's smoke that uproots trees, how is the tree Juliet & Kate hiding in keeping it out unless it doesn't wish them harm.
It took the first member of Russo's crew that armed himself.
It did kill Widmore's Mercs.

If you watch more closely, there is a pattern forming of what this thing does.

 

[Mallet]

If you watch more closely, there is a pattern forming of what this thing does.

I watch quite closely, thank you. And there is not much of a pattern forming at all. let's look at your "pattern."

As I said, Russo called it a security system for the island.

But how do we know that that is true? She only knows that because the guy she kills says that to her to try and stop her from killing him. He could have been lying to her to make her not be scared of it. He was trying to save his own life at the time. That does not make him a reliable source, especially since he was already apparently "taken" by Smokie at that time.

It wanted Locke but Locke wants to be taken by it because he doesn't fear it.

It took the first member of Russo's crew that armed himself.

These two points seem to contradict each other, and don't fit a pattern.

You imply that it took Russo's crew member because he armed himself, and thus was a threat. Yet it's come to Locke twice. The first time it didn't do anything to him. The second time it grabbed him and dragged him through the woods to one of it's vents, just like it did to the French guy. Only Jack and Kate managed to save Locke from being sucked down into the hole.
So does it take people it likes and who believe in it (like Locke) or does it take people who arm themselves like the French guy? And what about the people it out right kills without trying to take away like the Pilot and Eko? Not much of a pattern there.

It chased Juliet & Kate but didn't kill them. They hide in a tree and you saw flashes from it. If it's smoke that uproots trees, how is the tree Juliet & Kate hiding in keeping it out unless it doesn't wish them harm.

Then what does it wish them? Why destroy and rip up the jungle chasing them? Just to go "Boo!" and scare them a little? That doesn't seem likely or logical in any way.

And the only pattern that fits is that it has chased people before and they have managed to hide from it by hiding in clumps of trees.

It did kill Widmore's Mercs.

You're telling me to watch more closely and you don't even know/remember that it didn't kill them?!

After Ben summoned it and it attacked the merc's and few scenes later they all come trudging out of the jungle, some of them are injured, but none were killed. The Merc's were later killed by Sayid, Kate and the Others when they attacked them at the helicopter.

So, no, there doesn't seem to be a pattern forming in what it does, who it attacks, who it kills, who it takes away, who it judges, etc...

 

[exodus]

^^I think last nights "Dead is Dead" has proven my point, thank you very much.

 

[Mallet]

^^I think last nights "Dead is Dead" has proven my point, thank you very much.

How so? In fact I think it proves my point, not yours.

 

[exodus]

^^I think last nights "Dead is Dead" has proven my point, thank you very much.

How so? In fact I think it proves my point, not yours.

I don't know, isn't a point.

 

[Mallet]

But what happened last night doesn't show a pattern forming, in fact it moves us even further away from a pattern of behavior for smokey.

 

[exodus]

But what happened last night doesn't show a pattern forming, in fact it moves us even further away from a pattern of behavior for smokey.

You claim there is no patten, so what pattern behavior could he be moving away from?

I'll also keep in mind that Russo's security system & Ben's statement of being judged by it just like Ecko was isn't explaining anything.
I guess the writers are repeating & implying such things for no other reason than to get paid by the word.

 

[Mallet]

But what happened last night doesn't show a pattern forming, in fact it moves us even further away from a pattern of behavior for smokey.

You claim there is no patten, so what pattern behavior could he be moving away from?

Now you are just being pedantic.

You talk about a pattern in the Smoke Monster's actions, yet you haven't been able to show or demonstrate this pattern.

Where is this pattern you are talking about?

-Smokey attacked the merc's but let them live, even after they had killed numerous innocent people. So all of them passed it's judgment somehow?

-It has attacked unarmed people and killed them (the pilot). Why?

-It has "scanned" people and let them go, only to try and take them away later (Locke).

-It has chased people, then when they hid, it went away. If it wanted them why hasn't it come after them since then? It has had plenty of opportunities.

-It gave Eko a chance to live if he would only repent his violent past but he didn't because he believed that everything he had done he had done to survive, so it killed him.

-It judged Ben and let him live without having to repent his past violent actions (and he has done a lot of bad stuff). Why? Why didn't Ben have to repent all of his bad actions before Smokey let him live?

-You say it is a security system to protect the island from hostile people, yet it let the Merc's live, but killed shipwrecked scientists, it didn't even apparently try and stop the US military from bringing a nuke on to the island or attack the US soldiers, but it killed an injured pilot that crashed on the island, but it apparently was attacking the Dharma people because they put up a sonic fence to stop it from getting them, yet it let them build other Dharma stations across the island and travel around the island in vans.

This is a very schizophrenic monster/security system for the island to have. It seems to kill innocent people even more often then dangerous/evil ones.

If you can tell/show me a pattern in all of those actions by the Smoke Monster then I will agree that you are right. Until then, it does not look like much of a pattern to me.

 

[exodus]

But what happened last night doesn't show a pattern forming, in fact it moves us even further away from a pattern of behavior for smokey.

You claim there is no patten, so what pattern behavior could he be moving away from?

Now you are just being pedantic.

You talk about a pattern in the Smoke Monster's actions, yet you haven't been able to show or demonstrate this pattern.

Where is this pattern you are talking about?

-Smokey attacked the merc's but let them live, even after they had killed numerous innocent people. So all of them passed it's judgment somehow?

-It has attacked unarmed people and killed them (the pilot). Why?

-It has "scanned" people and let them go, only to try and take them away later (Locke).

-It has chased people, then when they hid, it went away. If it wanted them why hasn't it come after them since then? It has had plenty of opportunities.

-It gave Eko a chance to live if he would only repent his violent past but he didn't because he believed that everything he had done he had done to survive, so it killed him.

-It judged Ben and let him live without having to repent his past violent actions (and he has done a lot of bad stuff). Why? Why didn't Ben have to repent all of his bad actions before Smokey let him live?

-You say it is a security system to protect the island from hostile people, yet it let the Merc's live, but killed shipwrecked scientists, it didn't even apparently try and stop the US military from bringing a nuke on to the island or attack the US soldiers, but it killed an injured pilot that crashed on the island, but it apparently was attacking the Dharma people because they put up a sonic fence to stop it from getting them, yet it let them build other Dharma stations across the island and travel around the island in vans.

This is a very schizophrenic monster/security system for the island to have. It seems to kill innocent people even more often then dangerous/evil ones.

If you can tell/show me a pattern in all of those actions by the Smoke Monster then I will agree that you are right. Until then, it does not look like much of a pattern to me.

If what I & the writers themselves have given you can't help you piece it together, then I guess you won't see it.


I see it as do a few others now based on what was given in last night ep. from their comments in the recent post. Sorry, I can't help you.

 

[Mallet]

If what I & the writers themselves have given you can't help you piece it together, then I guess you won't see it.


I see it as do a few others now based on what was given in last night ep. from their comments in the recent post. Sorry, I can't help you.

That's OK. I wasn't actually expecting you be be able to show a pattern in the Smoke Monster's behavior, since their obviously isn't one. Heck, I'm even doubting that the Smoke Monster and The "Ghost" people are on the same side/working together, let alone two versions of the same thing. I wouldn't be surprised it they were actually opposing each others actions.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I don't see a pattern, except maybe that each physical manifestation of Smokey is based solely on the person it comes in contact with. Maybe Smokey is sort of a Legion -- "I am Legion, for we are many."

Totally offtopic, Exodus, and don't take offense, but your ungrammatical sig. is bugging me. I don't know if it's a quote from someone else, but there's virtually no number agreement in the following passage:

"Emancipate yourself[singular] from mental slavery
None[singular] but ourselves[plural] can free our[plural] mind[singular]."

 

[Ben Sisko3]

Totally offtopic, Exodus, and don't take offense, but your ungrammatical sig. is bugging me. I don't know if it's a quote from someone else, but there's virtually no number agreement in the following passage:

"Emancipate yourself[singular] from mental slavery
None[singular] but ourselves[plural] can free our[plural] mind[singular]."

That'd be Bob Marley's "Redemption Song", sung by Sawyer in the first season finale. Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IIZPURwTK8

 

[exodus]

I don't see a pattern, except maybe that each physical manifestation of Smokey is based solely on the person it comes in contact with. Maybe Smokey is sort of a Legion -- "I am Legion, for we are many."

Totally offtopic, Exodus, and don't take offense, but your ungrammatical sig. is bugging me. I don't know if it's a quote from someone else, but there's virtually no number agreement in the following passage:

"Emancipate yourself[singular] from mental slavery
None[singular] but ourselves[plural] can free our[plural] mind[singular]."

Dude, it's Bob Marley.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Dude, it's Bob Marley.

Marley gets an F.

 

[exodus]

If what I & the writers themselves have given you can't help you piece it together, then I guess you won't see it.


I see it as do a few others now based on what was given in last night ep. from their comments in the recent post. Sorry, I can't help you.

That's OK. I wasn't actually expecting you be be able to show a pattern in the Smoke Monster's behavior, since their obviously isn't one. Heck, I'm even doubting that the Smoke Monster and The "Ghost" people are on the same side/working together, let alone two versions of the same thing. I wouldn't be surprised it they were actually opposing each others actions.

Yeah, I know. It's hard to follow it killing or attacking those that it sees as violent and/or holding weapons vs. those that are not.

As I said before: It attacked Ecko, the Mercs & Russo's man because they either had weapons and intended harm or violent thoughts. It attecked the pilot for this reason & came after Juliet & Kate because they were choking each other at the time. It up roots trees as I explained, if it wanted them dead that one tree wouldn't have stopped it. What you saw flashing was it judging them, just as we saw it do with Ecko, Ben & Locke.

It doesn't bother Locke because he is harmless & chosen. It only grabbed him to bring him to the temple. Remember he was telling Kate & Jack to let him go, that he'd be alright.

It didn't kill Ben because as Locke said, he went to be judged upon the death of his daughter. It let him live because he showed penance.

Now you have your pattern, for the second time.
As Russo said, it's a security system for the island by getting rid of certtain elements the island doesn't want.