It is. And if you're tired of the Borg in general, you're in for a treat at the end.
World Premiere/Advance screening discussions [SPOILERS GUARANTEED]
- Thread starter M'Sharak
- Start date
If they do just that, give Spock 10 minutes worth of grief in this movie, and then move on to the next movie as if these horrific events did not happen, then it not only cheapens the great losses he suffers, but it also really does just delegate the movie to an ordinary action-adventure movie, without the heart that Trek has carried with it for so long, and which many of us find the real attraction.
And you are certainly right in that so much of the chemistry between Spock and the other characters will need to change. Certainly, there needs to be a much gentler approach to him from McCoy especially, which means re-establishing a whole new type of relationship than the one we knew.
I see Spock's evolution from this point as being thus; his emotions over this matter do deeply effect him to the point he realizes his Father was right, he must get control of them. This causes him to begin considering and searching out the Vulcan 'way' he has, up till now, ignored/shunned. 
I see Spock's evolution from this point as being thus; his emotions over this matter do deeply effect him to the point he realizes his Father was right, he must get control of them. This causes him to begin considering and searching out the Vulcan 'way' he has, up till now, ignored/shunned.
Respression. Oh yes, that's healthy.
The big thing Spock is going to have to overcome (and explain) is why he left the bridge of the Enterprise while in command just to save his father and mother (and ostensibly the Vulcan Council). Needs of the many, and all that?
I guess in the next movie McCoy can have a line like, "Why you motherless, homeless, green-blooded, devil-eared Vulcan!" We'll know if Spock's changed if he either accepts the barb without emotion, or if he starts to sob loudly.
You mean like sobbing pitiously about how "I could never tell my mother I loved her" - as oldSpock did in "The Naked Time?"
You mean like sobbing pitiously about how "I could never tell my mother I loved her" - as oldSpock did in "The Naked Time?"
Pretty much. Or in the next movie we see Spock alone in his dark quarters, sitting in a corner drinking from a bottle of Wild Turkey. Either way.
I see Spock's evolution from this point as being thus; his emotions over this matter do deeply effect him to the point he realizes his Father was right, he must get control of them. This causes him to begin considering and searching out the Vulcan 'way' he has, up till now, ignored/shunned.
Respression. Oh yes, that's healthy.
The big thing Spock is going to have to overcome (and explain) is why he left the bridge of the Enterprise while in command just to save his father and mother (and ostensibly the Vulcan Council). Needs of the many, and all that?
And even worse he failed!
Rather than a shift into strict repression, I would rather see these events result in a more even handed approach to emotion, not just by Spock, but by those Vulcans that remain. A re-evaluation of what is important to their new society, for it will be a new one. A clearer view of emotion as something that needs to be controlled, but not denied. If this great tragedy is to mean anything, it has to show a society that has picked up the pieces and made those pieces matter.
Well, this will certainly throw a wrench into what could happen in an Abramsverse Voyager, since obviously Tuvok can never be born now that Vulcan is destroyed.
Don't know about Saavik, though. How old is she when we first meet her? Could she still exist in the Abramsverse?
You don't know that. Tuvok could still be born. But I do wonder how the surviving Vulcans will react to this.
What did Nero think he will accomplish with this? Does he think he can stop the destruction of Romulus by changing the timeline? Just think of it..will "our" future Star Trek timeline be without the Romulan influence? Will this weaken their terratory?
Blind-ass revenge, I guess. In his original timeline (the timeline we're all familiar with), Romulus is still gone.
What I wonder is why he didn't just show up in orbit around Romulus in the new timeline and say, "Here I am. Follow me. Let's go get them."
What I also wonder is whether or not Kirk learned enough from Spock Prime or Nero himself to realize what has happened. If he did, then the Federation and everyone else has ample warning about the Hobus star this time and real evidence of what it could do. In a perverse way, the incident with Nero created a timeline where Romulus will continue (and Vulcan won't).
Edited to add: Actually, Nero did get his revenge. He lost Romulus in one timeline, but got Vulcan and probably saved Romulus in another.
Quick question does Kirk's taking command of the Enterprise after getting off the ice planet come off as believeable the way it is shown?
If they play that music from teh trailer when he sits down...it is believable
With only 10,000 Vulcans left in the entire universe, I'd say the odds are very slim that any Vulcans from future series would be born, as both parents would need to have survived and be in a position to get together!
As far as Romulus is concerned, if what I read of the comics is correct, that Vulcan was destroyed because they would not give "red matter" to Nero to save his planet. By destroying Vulcan, he has effectively destroyed any chance of saving Romulus in this time line, as he can't get the red matter from a planet that no longer exists!
Well, this will certainly throw a wrench into what could happen in an Abramsverse Voyager, since obviously Tuvok can never be born now that Vulcan is destroyed.
You don't know that. Tuvok could still be born.
If he's lucky, maybe. When Vulcan is destroyed, he hasn't yet been born.
True, he wasn't born on Vulcan proper (his actual birthplace was the 'Vulcanis Lunar Colony', whatever the hell that means, since Vulcan has no moon), but what if his parents were on Vulcan when it was destroyed? Can't be born then.
That's a well-stated way of saying whether they meant to or not, they opened up a can of worms by destroying Vulcan. This isn't a one movie issue. It's a big thing.
I wonder if Orci and Kurtzman were thinking beyond this movie when they did it? I don't mean that sarcastically. What I mean is if they gave thought to exactly what you say above. And, as I said above, if they gave any thought to what that may mean to the balance in the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship we've come to respect and be entertained by.
Well, this will certainly throw a wrench into what could happen in an Abramsverse Voyager, since obviously Tuvok can never be born now that Vulcan is destroyed.
You don't know that. Tuvok could still be born.
If he's lucky, maybe. When Vulcan is destroyed, he hasn't yet been born.
You have to remember this is a different timeline. Tuvok is alive and well in the other timeline. A lot of people we know may not be born in this timeline, or if they are, not follow the paths they did in the other one.
This is not an altered future. This is ANOTHER future. Hell, maybe Picard isn't even born.
Which we will never see again, at least outside of the novels. So what's the point?
I could give a DAMN how alternate this timeline is!
It's the only one we're ever gonna see onscreen, and in it, a lot of people have died who otherwise did not. Tuvok possibly included. Are you seriously telling me that doesn't bother you?
Which we will never see again, at least outside of the novels. So what's the point?
I could give a DAMN how alternate this timeline is!
Read my above posts about whether or not I care about Vulcan being detroyed.
But as far as people dying who "otherwise did not," that's not a correct way to put it. There is no "otherwise." In this timeline, Amanda is killed. That was her fate in this timeline. It was supposed to happen to her. While in the familiar timeline, her fate was to apparently live to a ripe old age.
Maybe baby Tuvok dies when Vulcan is destroyed, too. Hell, maybe someone who turned out to be an ancestor of Jean Luc Picard in the familiar timeline was on Vulcan, too, so no Jean Luc in this new timeline. Whatever happens in that timeline once it's created is supposed to happen. Including the destruction of Vulcan. That's the way it goes. Alive and vital in one dimension. Dead or among the "nonborn" in the other. That's life(s).
As far as it being another timeline goes, I do honestly think it was a rather cheap ploy by Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman, to be frank. There was plenty of lee-way to tell a TOS cast story within the timeline we all know. Or, they could've just said, "We're starting over. Deal with it."
But I've reconciled myself to this being what it is. I don't read the novels, and if we never see the other timeline again, sobeit if we get three or four good movies out of this one.
I could give a DAMN how alternate this timeline is!
1) You're right.
2) No, it doesn't bother me. Not in the least.
If Nero stops by Platonius off-screen and destroys it with a singularity, I would be happy. No flamenco-dancing Spock and Kirk-riding dwarf in this timeline!
Also, I had to ask: does Robau get a fight scene that allows him to live up to his badass reputation?
Also, I had to ask: does Robau get a fight scene that allows him to live up to his badass reputation?
My feeling is that the destruction of Vulcan is more of a Mothra effect than a butterfly one. A whole lot should change, maybe in seemingly subtle ways, but it should change the face of much in the Federation. So much happens because one is in a certain place at a certain time-- it only takes a little to be off. And we have lost a whole world of people that were involved in making the Prime timeline "work" the way it did at some point along the line .
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