Code of Honor - Racist or Not?

[Praetor]

This is a very strange thread for this forum, IMO. Somewhat out of character.

I never really considered this episode to be offensive. However, now after reading the reasons why, I, as a white person, I could see how a black person might consider it offensive. I would hardly reduce the Ligonians to 'spear-throwers' but I can see how it conveys that sort of connotation. I think it was nice to see a race that resembles black humans instead of white humans.

It's generally a bad episode though.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

It is/was a BAD one, it was not well thought out.
As a minority but not black I found it crude.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I agree. That was a good quote.

And, it's true. I have no Lt. Yar; I have no vaccine. I'm screwed. My life is a shell.

 

[miraclefan]

It is/was a BAD one, it was not well thought out.
As a minority but not black I found it crude.

Question? if this episode WAS good and well thought out, would people still consider this episode racist?

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

It might at that,
The only thing that liked was Lutan's wife put him in his place at the end

 

[Praetor]

Lutan was a total ass, and seeing him get his comeuppance was somewhat satisfying.

 

[Cyke101]

This is a very strange thread for this forum, IMO. Somewhat out of character.

I never really considered this episode to be offensive. However, now after reading the reasons why, I, as a white person, I could see how a black person might consider it offensive. I would hardly reduce the Ligonians to 'spear-throwers' but I can see how it conveys that sort of connotation. I think it was nice to see a race that resembles black humans instead of white humans.

It's generally a bad episode though.

White liberal guilt vs. discussing what insults minorities is always a tricky topic to decipher, which leads to weird discussions anyway (fear not, dear Praetor: I'm not accusing you of anything ).

However, now that I think about it, substituting a planet of Blacks with a planet of Latinos or Asians... it's pretty horrifying and it would go either way. In the case of Asians in particular, I would imagine that such an episode would come across with some serious condescension, with defenses like "But the constant use of robes and lotuses makes that race all the more intriguing" or appeasement that only caters on a superficial level and plays up a rather limited cultural knowledge. On the flip side, to me it's really no different than a restaurant in a foreign country that drapes itself in American flags and cheeseburgers, but has no idea what true Americana is. It just comes across as fake and insincere and exploitative.

On a greater level, and on a much more consistent and widespread problem of Trek: I'm just sick and tired of seeing aliens that look human. Black, White, Latino, Asian, Native American, Aborigine, Pacific Islander, etc. etc. etc: stop it, Trek! I want to see new life and new civilizations!

 

[Praetor]

Good post, Cyke101. I think you make good points, there.

 

[john titor]

*Cough* budget constraints *cough*

Unless you want to see swirly light things again like in TOS or someones face with swirling ink stuff superimposed ala Migelum.

On the other hand, the borg, before they introduced the queen, were highly novel even though they looked humanoid. I guess going down that route in terms of social organization or lack thereof would be interesting. Like with Alien, ok so its based on a breed of wasp, but most people wouldn't know this and along HR Gigers design the creature was otherworldly. So a little imagination wouldn't go amiss.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

It is/was a BAD one, it was not well thought out.
As a minority but not black I found it crude.

Question? if this episode WAS good and well thought out, would people still consider this episode racist?

The episode might then at worst come across as cliched

 

[Cyke101]

Good post, Cyke101. I think you make good points, there.

Hah, thanks. I was really worried that you might take it the wrong way!

*Cough* budget constraints *cough*

Unless you want to see swirly light things again like in TOS or someones face with swirling ink stuff superimposed ala Migelum.

On the other hand, the borg, before they introduced the queen, were highly novel even though they looked humanoid. I guess going down that route in terms of social organization or lack thereof would be interesting. Like with Alien, ok so its based on a breed of wasp, but most people wouldn't know this and along HR Gigers design the creature was otherworldly. So a little imagination wouldn't go amiss.

Part of Trek is to see just how many forms of life exist there. TNG gave us non-corporeal beings and nanites (very cleverly, for that matter), while DS9 gave us "gods" who had to lower themselves to our level. And TOS had the whole "budget-be-damned" attitude going for it that just added to its timelessness, I think (to wit, how many human aliens did they have? Conversely, how many aliens did they have that consciously turned into human form under their own power? The latter is much more believable and a neat trick on the lack of make-up.)

I sort of feel like it's not really budget constraints, but more like budget allocation.

 

[rramarr]

Oh well that episode has nothing on this one!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7urc...-caused-by-recession/&feature=player_embedded

 

[Hoshi_Mayweather]

Oh well that episode has nothing on this one!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7urc...-caused-by-recession/&feature=player_embedded

Getting back on topic:

I wonder if an 'African-American' actually commented on the episode; I haven't read the entire thread. However, it seems that some know Af-Am's who have seen the episode....(Note: The boyfriend actually likes the episode....)

Looking at Star Trek now, it hasn't really progressed, IMO (a reason why it's being rebooted and going back to basics)....although, at the time, I guess it was refreshing to see a planet of dark-skinned individuals where aliens tended to be clearly portrayed by Caucasian actors.

 

[john titor]

Good post, Cyke101. I think you make good points, there.

Hah, thanks. I was really worried that you might take it the wrong way!

*Cough* budget constraints *cough*

Unless you want to see swirly light things again like in TOS or someones face with swirling ink stuff superimposed ala Migelum.

On the other hand, the borg, before they introduced the queen, were highly novel even though they looked humanoid. I guess going down that route in terms of social organization or lack thereof would be interesting. Like with Alien, ok so its based on a breed of wasp, but most people wouldn't know this and along HR Gigers design the creature was otherworldly. So a little imagination wouldn't go amiss.

Part of Trek is to see just how many forms of life exist there. TNG gave us non-corporeal beings and nanites (very cleverly, for that matter), while DS9 gave us "gods" who had to lower themselves to our level. And TOS had the whole "budget-be-damned" attitude going for it that just added to its timelessness, I think (to wit, how many human aliens did they have? Conversely, how many aliens did they have that consciously turned into human form under their own power? The latter is much more believable and a neat trick on the lack of make-up.)

I sort of feel like it's not really budget constraints, but more like budget allocation.

I agree that there definetly needs to be more imagination beyond doing something weird to peoples noses/brows. There must be a billion alien races in ST with some minor ridge in the nose or brow.