Re: Obama's Favourite Episode
What the hell does this have to do with the President?
What the hell does this have to do with the President?
Code of Honor - Racist or Not?
- Thread starter Boy Wonder
- Start date
Re: Obama's Favourite Episode
There's nothing in particular wrong with the word "black" in my view, but I prefer to use the term African-Americans because of my political agenda. I believe in a conception of American identity that is post-racial, where the concept of race doesn't even apply to the concept of being an American. Therefore, to encourage a post-racial American identity, I specifically employ language that emphasizes the Americanism of individuals of divergent ancestries and sub-cultures: "English-American," "African-American," "Korean-American," "Muslim American," "Christian American," "Finnish American," "German American," "Latino American," "LGBT American," etc. In this way, I wish to combat the prevailing cultural assumption that "American=White Heterosexual Christian," and to use language to cause people to see these other ancestries and sub-cultures as operating on an equal basis with those that were traditionally dominant and to associate these other ancestries and sub-cultures with the idea of Americanism as strongly as they do with the white Christian heterosexual identity.
There's nothing in particular wrong with the word "black" in my view, but I prefer to use the term African-Americans because of my political agenda. I believe in a conception of American identity that is post-racial, where the concept of race doesn't even apply to the concept of being an American. Therefore, to encourage a post-racial American identity, I specifically employ language that emphasizes the Americanism of individuals of divergent ancestries and sub-cultures: "English-American," "African-American," "Korean-American," "Muslim American," "Christian American," "Finnish American," "German American," "Latino American," "LGBT American," etc. In this way, I wish to combat the prevailing cultural assumption that "American=White Heterosexual Christian," and to use language to cause people to see these other ancestries and sub-cultures as operating on an equal basis with those that were traditionally dominant and to associate these other ancestries and sub-cultures with the idea of Americanism as strongly as they do with the white Christian heterosexual identity.
Re: Obama's Favourite Episode
Actually all of those should go. They're simply Americans. Certanly not African, English or whatever. Americans like everybody else... Changing race for ancestry/religion/sexual orientation is hardly an improvement..
In fact it's worse, because black americans are indeed black even if that should be irrelevant, however they have little of African. Same for European Americans and so on... I guess first and second generation immigrants are a distinct case however...
And as cultcross said, the planet wasn't populated by African Americans, those were darkskinned, tropically adapted humanoid (known as black people in our society) aliens...to be technical.
Btw, someone sugested that modern africa wasn't racist? Lol, it's one of the most racist places in the world, full of ethnical conflicts and discrimination...
Anyway, I do think this episode was somewhat racist. The society presented should have been and advanced one, not one ressembling silly racist notions of the 19th century...
Actually all of those should go. They're simply Americans. Certanly not African, English or whatever. Americans like everybody else... Changing race for ancestry/religion/sexual orientation is hardly an improvement..
In fact it's worse, because black americans are indeed black even if that should be irrelevant, however they have little of African. Same for European Americans and so on... I guess first and second generation immigrants are a distinct case however...
And as cultcross said, the planet wasn't populated by African Americans, those were darkskinned, tropically adapted humanoid (known as black people in our society) aliens...to be technical.
Btw, someone sugested that modern africa wasn't racist? Lol, it's one of the most racist places in the world, full of ethnical conflicts and discrimination...
Anyway, I do think this episode was somewhat racist. The society presented should have been and advanced one, not one ressembling silly racist notions of the 19th century...
Very good! Thanks, Holdy.
I never saw this episode as racist. I guess I looked at the positives:
1. A nice change of pace from all the all-Caucasian races.
2. A nice musical score.
3. Some really nice planetary scenes; Ligon II looked like a very beautiful planet from what we saw of it.
I didn't see the Ligonians as primitive "spear-chuckers." Their culture most resembled ancient China rather than any from Africa with some unique elements thrown in. The fight to the death thing is yucky but there are several other advanced races in Star Trek that do this: the Klingons, Andorians and even the highly-evolved, enlightened Vulcans!
Overall, I thought it was a slightly below-average episode but I've never understood all the vitriol it gets from most fans.
1. A nice change of pace from all the all-Caucasian races.
2. A nice musical score.
3. Some really nice planetary scenes; Ligon II looked like a very beautiful planet from what we saw of it.
I didn't see the Ligonians as primitive "spear-chuckers." Their culture most resembled ancient China rather than any from Africa with some unique elements thrown in. The fight to the death thing is yucky but there are several other advanced races in Star Trek that do this: the Klingons, Andorians and even the highly-evolved, enlightened Vulcans!
Overall, I thought it was a slightly below-average episode but I've never understood all the vitriol it gets from most fans.
The original title? Made of fail. BIG fail.
I think this episode has some racist overtones from the depiction of the "alien characters" and their names and some of themes in it. I don't think it's overtly or even offensively racist. But there are definitely overtones.
I think this episode has some racist overtones from the depiction of the "alien characters" and their names and some of themes in it. I don't think it's overtly or even offensively racist. But there are definitely overtones.
I have a feeling this thread is going to get closed before to long. I've learned on these boards that topics such as Race, Sex, Politics, & Religion, get very heated very fast. Bye now!
Re: Obama's Favourite Episode
Hey! at least they weren't portrayed speaking in ''klics, mumbelling'' & going ''OONGA MOONGA BOONGA DOONGA'' while Bang'en on drums & dancing like idiot's! Like they were in the old Johny Quest cartoons!
Boy Wonder
Lieutenant
Why am I not surprised the title of this thread was changed when we live in a world were free speech is a luxury held by the majority and those with thin skins. Rolls eyes.
The title was not racist and anybody that says it was is either a very insecure person or has an axe to grind; pushing their pathetic agenda.
I titled this thread as I thought Obama would have been proud of the episode, as despite what some people on this thread state, it gave a very positive outlook on African Americans.
In a time where it was rare for any person of colour to have a major television role, Star Trek hired African-Americans to portray a whole race, that is nearly the entire guest cast comprised of African-Americans, it showed progression of society and that's why I thought it would be Obama's favourite. God some people really need to grow up and deal with life. You can't edit or delete the real world, people are always going to think differently.
And to those that are offended with African American. Is there anything that doesn't offend you?
Code of Honour was by no means the best episode of season 1, but I could really see them trying to make an effort with progression of society.
The title was not racist and anybody that says it was is either a very insecure person or has an axe to grind; pushing their pathetic agenda.
I titled this thread as I thought Obama would have been proud of the episode, as despite what some people on this thread state, it gave a very positive outlook on African Americans.
In a time where it was rare for any person of colour to have a major television role, Star Trek hired African-Americans to portray a whole race, that is nearly the entire guest cast comprised of African-Americans, it showed progression of society and that's why I thought it would be Obama's favourite. God some people really need to grow up and deal with life. You can't edit or delete the real world, people are always going to think differently.
And to those that are offended with African American. Is there anything that doesn't offend you?
Code of Honour was by no means the best episode of season 1, but I could really see them trying to make an effort with progression of society.
No, it used blacks to portray black "aliens" as noble savages in the most stereotypical manner possible. How is that a positive outlook?
Oh, BALONEY. Sure, blacks didn't and don't always get fair representations in casting, but it wasn'l like Code of Honor was some casting breakthrough. All or predominantly black casts had appeared on many popular American sitcoms in the decade before TNG (Sanford & Son, Good Times, What's Happening?, The Jeffersons, The Cosby Show, etc.). TNG was doing no favors in this regard, especially when trafficking in stererotypes the only time it did use a majority black guest cast.
Re: Obama's Favourite Episode
One of my dad's friends is black and lives in Lancaster County, PA, and usually signs his e-mails "your favorite Afro-Amishman."I have a buddy who's black and refers to himself as being "Middletown-American".
Boy Wonder
Lieutenant
Here we go, so basically if you were black in the eighties you had to make white men laugh, wow, what a lovely stereotype to endow and not racist in the slightest.
Lutan and his people were not just noble savages, they were neither noble or savages. Their ritual was not in wide use and was a an ancient custom. They didn't fight everyday of their damn lives acting like stupid imbeciles. If you bothered to look beneath the surface rather than letting your agenda cloud your perceptions, for a one off species in Star Trek they were complex. Ever see Voyager's aliens or most of the TNG's aliens?
Oh I forgot TNG must have cast a white Michael Dorn and a white Levar Burton, I guess that's the TNG just trying to peddle nasty stereotypes with their token black officers.
Okay, what qualities would you endow on an alien race portrayed solely by African-Americans? Now lets see how many stereotypes and acts of racism I can point out.
Re: Obama's Favourite Episode
Well, that depends on how you define "Americanness" vs, say, "Englishness." You might define an Englishman as being anyone who lives in England. Or you might define an Englishman as anyone descended from the indigenous inhabitants of England. I can tell you that I self-identify as an Englishman under the second definition: I am the descendent of an English family, I identify with English culture, and I am proud of my English heritage.
At the same time, I self-identify as an American. I don't tend to think of my Americanness as a heritage, the way I tend to think of my Englishness as a heritage, because, to me, Americanness is about politics rather than heritage: A commitment to the principles of liberal democracy and to the deliberate attempt to continually refine and improve the United States, the first state established explicitly in the service of liberal democracy. In other words, England is my cultural past and America is my cultural present and future.
As a result, I self-identify as an English-American. I don't consider my status as an English-American to make myself superior to other Americans, nor do I consider there to be a conflict between these two aspects of my identity. I don't think that identifying as an English-American takes away from my loyalty or dedication to America, nor does it make me feel alienated from Americans of other ancestries, of other hyphens, so to speak. In fact, for me, the idea that there are many different kinds of hyphenated Americans -- English-Americans, African-Americans, Cherokee-Americans, Latino Americans, German-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Armenian-Americans, Arab-Americans, Filipino-Americans, Indian-Americans, etc -- but that we're all still equally American... This idea is an absolute delight to me.
Well, when you point out that African-Americans usually aren't particularly African, or that European-Americans usually aren't particularly European, you're pointing out something that stems from the fact that there's no truly satisfactory set of terminology to describe racial or ethnic groups, because these are folk taxonomies that don't reflect any biological reality. The same problem applies to just trying to describe these groups on the basis of their skin color -- where's the border? There are visible differences in skin color between, say, the indigenous inhabitants of the Italian peninsula and the indigenous inhabitants of the British Isles, yet they're both called "white." There's not necessarily a huge difference in skin tone between the inhabitants of Northern Africa along the Mediterranean coast and the inhabitants of the Italian peninsula, yet the Northern Africans usually are not considered "white." Etc.
And on top of all that, if you just say, "American," well, then, unfortunately, there's a history of that term being so closely associated with one particular kind of American that was socially dominant -- light-skinned, heterosexual, European (often British)-descended, Protestant Christians -- that, in my view, if we do not add something else to it, people will hear the word "American" and continue to associate it with WASPs and to see non-WASPs as being somehow less legitimately American.
That's why I say, let people self-identify where they may and let's celebrate the diversity of all these different groups by using terminology that reflects the social reality of their existence yet also reflects a common commitment to inter-group unity: "[Adjective]-American."
Bolian-American smilie!
Well, that depends on how you define "Americanness" vs, say, "Englishness." You might define an Englishman as being anyone who lives in England. Or you might define an Englishman as anyone descended from the indigenous inhabitants of England. I can tell you that I self-identify as an Englishman under the second definition: I am the descendent of an English family, I identify with English culture, and I am proud of my English heritage.
At the same time, I self-identify as an American. I don't tend to think of my Americanness as a heritage, the way I tend to think of my Englishness as a heritage, because, to me, Americanness is about politics rather than heritage: A commitment to the principles of liberal democracy and to the deliberate attempt to continually refine and improve the United States, the first state established explicitly in the service of liberal democracy. In other words, England is my cultural past and America is my cultural present and future.
As a result, I self-identify as an English-American. I don't consider my status as an English-American to make myself superior to other Americans, nor do I consider there to be a conflict between these two aspects of my identity. I don't think that identifying as an English-American takes away from my loyalty or dedication to America, nor does it make me feel alienated from Americans of other ancestries, of other hyphens, so to speak. In fact, for me, the idea that there are many different kinds of hyphenated Americans -- English-Americans, African-Americans, Cherokee-Americans, Latino Americans, German-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Armenian-Americans, Arab-Americans, Filipino-Americans, Indian-Americans, etc -- but that we're all still equally American... This idea is an absolute delight to me.
Well, when you point out that African-Americans usually aren't particularly African, or that European-Americans usually aren't particularly European, you're pointing out something that stems from the fact that there's no truly satisfactory set of terminology to describe racial or ethnic groups, because these are folk taxonomies that don't reflect any biological reality. The same problem applies to just trying to describe these groups on the basis of their skin color -- where's the border? There are visible differences in skin color between, say, the indigenous inhabitants of the Italian peninsula and the indigenous inhabitants of the British Isles, yet they're both called "white." There's not necessarily a huge difference in skin tone between the inhabitants of Northern Africa along the Mediterranean coast and the inhabitants of the Italian peninsula, yet the Northern Africans usually are not considered "white." Etc.
And on top of all that, if you just say, "American," well, then, unfortunately, there's a history of that term being so closely associated with one particular kind of American that was socially dominant -- light-skinned, heterosexual, European (often British)-descended, Protestant Christians -- that, in my view, if we do not add something else to it, people will hear the word "American" and continue to associate it with WASPs and to see non-WASPs as being somehow less legitimately American.
That's why I say, let people self-identify where they may and let's celebrate the diversity of all these different groups by using terminology that reflects the social reality of their existence yet also reflects a common commitment to inter-group unity: "[Adjective]-American."
Bolian-American smilie!
Re: Obama's Favourite Episode
Read post #12.
If the ep doesn't come off as racist, then that is a credit to the cast. It wasn't written to be an all-black race of aliens. Understanding the backstory, it's a lot easier to see what an odious experience this was for those involved.
And the director was FIRED by the Bird for these very reasons.
It's good that the end product doesn't offend everyone, and that some good things can be found in the episode, but this is despite the circumstances.
Probably the best thing to come of this ep is the quote:
"You will have no vaccine, and no Lt. Yar!"
Read post #12.
If the ep doesn't come off as racist, then that is a credit to the cast. It wasn't written to be an all-black race of aliens. Understanding the backstory, it's a lot easier to see what an odious experience this was for those involved.
And the director was FIRED by the Bird for these very reasons.
It's good that the end product doesn't offend everyone, and that some good things can be found in the episode, but this is despite the circumstances.
Probably the best thing to come of this ep is the quote:
"You will have no vaccine, and no Lt. Yar!"
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