How we deal with death

[Lynx]

They were not obligated in any sense of the word to bring Kes back.

Then they shouldn't have done that.

 

[JB2005]

not really, i suppose they wanted to give the character closure (ie send Kes home...) so as to make the Kes fans happy (fail...) and give Jennifer Lien a chance to stretch her acting muscles and do something different (the brutes)

The character didn't need that "closure", they must have known that they would insult and annoy the fans of the character with that crap story, otherwise they must have been idiots (which I don't think they are) and they could easily have written something better for Jennifer.

and because the rolling stones all went on to become writers for voyager...

It's a pity that they didn't. They would probably have done a better job than Berman's gang.

i'm confused, first of all you say the writers aren't idiots (I personally reserve judgement) then you insult them...

 

[rfmcdpei]

Then they shouldn't have done that.

Why not a Kes follow-up episode? And why does it have to be happy from the start?

 

[rfmcdpei]

It haven't hurt book sales yet because many fans have bought the books before knowing that Janeway's death should be permanent. I'm also sure that the books will attract some of those who hate Janeway who might want to read abut her death.

It's been two years. I think that the news of Janeway's death is pretty widespread among people who are interested in the novel.

But then? With many hardcore Voyager fans leaving because of that direction, will those new fans stay?

Even you care enough about the novels to comment on them incessantly.

You also forget the people who are attracted to the novels precuisely because they have a dynamic storyline, with old characters changing, new characters coming into play, new environments (Federation politics, say) to explore, and the fact that things aren't safe with a reset button only inches away. That's how I got into the novels, after all, and I'm sure that I'm not alone.

 

[Lynx]

Then they shouldn't have done that.

Why not a Kes follow-up episode? And why does it have to be happy from the start?

Why destroy a main character in the disgusting way they did it?

Unnecessary, rude and direct insulting to the fans who wanted her back.

It's been two years. I think that the news of Janeway's death is pretty widespread among people who are interested in the novel.

The point is than no one did seem to know that her death would be permanent until recently.

Even you care enough about the novels to comment on them incessantly.

You also forget the people who are attracted to the novels precuisely because they have a dynamic storyline, with old characters changing, new characters coming into play, new environments (Federation politics, say) to explore, and the fact that things aren't safe with a reset button only inches away. That's how I got into the novels, after all, and I'm sure that I'm not alone.

Yes, I do care about the books because I happened to like the books and I was hoping that the relaunch should be something better than the TV series.

I ahve nothing against changes and development as long as they are well done but killing off main characters, ruining others and turning what was supposed to be a Voyager relaunch into something where most of the original characters are missing, killed off or ruined in some other way isn't exactly what I want.

 

[JB2005]

Yes, I do care about the books because I happened to like the books and I was hoping that the relaunch should be something better than the TV series.

whoa there. you keep saying that you want the books to remain true to the series, but when they do things which you don't approve of then they obviously are worse. how can you say (objectively, not subjectively) that Janeway + Voyager = good
while
Voyager - Janeway = hells no?

 

[rfmcdpei]

It's been two years. I think that the news of Janeway's death is pretty widespread among people who are interested in the novel.

The point is than no one did seem to know that her death would be permanent until recently.

It was pretty evident in Before Dishonor that Janeway was going to be out of the picture. She died and was explicitly told by Q that she wasn't coming back.

Yes, I do care about the books because I happened to like the books and I was hoping that the relaunch should be something better than the TV series.

A lot of people think it is. Certainly enough people like the direction of the relaunch to keep producing more books in the Voyager series.

 

[Lynx]

The point is than no one did seem to know that her death would be permanent until recently.

It was pretty evident in Before Dishonor that Janeway was going to be out of the picture. She died and was explicitly told by Q that she wasn't coming back.

Yes, I do care about the books because I happened to like the books and I was hoping that the relaunch should be something better than the TV series.

A lot of people think it is. Certainly enough people like the direction of the relaunch to keep producing more books in the Voyager series.

Most of the Janeway fans did believe that the whole thing was just a stunt. It's recently that it has become known that her death will be permanent.

Yes, they are producing books in the Voyager series. But for how long?

 

[JB2005]

It was pretty evident in Before Dishonor that Janeway was going to be out of the picture. She died and was explicitly told by Q that she wasn't coming back.



A lot of people think it is. Certainly enough people like the direction of the relaunch to keep producing more books in the Voyager series.

Most of the Janeway fans did believe that the whole thing was just a stunt. It's recently that it has become known that her death will be permanent.

Yes, they are producing books in the Voyager series. But for how long?

Give me names, give me figures, show me research.

I'm a Janeway fan, and god-willing when I read that she was dead my immediate thought was, "oh no she's dead" not, "hmm I wonder if this is a stunt"

I don't know how many people agree with my point of view, then again I'm pretty sure you don't know how many people agree with your point of view. Therefore I'm going to assume that you're just speculating. If that's the case then you may be right, but you may also be wrong...

 

[Lynx]

Most of the Janeway fans did believe that the whole thing was just a stunt. It's recently that it has become known that her death will be permanent.

Yes, they are producing books in the Voyager series. But for how long?

Give me names, give me figures, show me research.

I'm a Janeway fan, and god-willing when I read that she was dead my immediate thought was, "oh no she's dead" not, "hmm I wonder if this is a stunt"

I don't know how many people agree with my point of view, then again I'm pretty sure you don't know how many people agree with your point of view. Therefore I'm going to assume that you're just speculating. If that's the case then you may be right, but you may also be wrong...

Haven't you read the comments on this forum? The fact that people are starting to react over this now shows that many of them didn't believe that she would be permanently killed off.

I can also send you the URL to another forum where many of the posters are ardent Janeway fans. They were pretty upset when I informed them that Janeway's death would be permanent, they couldn't believe it.

 

[Thrawn]

Give me names, give me figures, show me research.

Why bother with such things?

Lynx has "feelings".

 

[JB2005]

but as you have said before, the bbs fans make up only a fraction of all the voyager fans, besides even if this board were truely representative, then there is a poll running on another thread where the majority of voters want janeway to stay dead, (50-something percent) so even if they thought it was a stunt at first, then they're quite content with it now...

 

[Lynx]

Give me names, give me figures, show me research.

Why bother with such things?

Lynx has "feelings".

Stop being so d**n sarcastic and try to maintain a proper debate instead.

 

[Thrawn]

Give me names, give me figures, show me research.

Why bother with such things?

Lynx has "feelings".

Stop being so d**n sarcastic and try to maintain a proper debate instead.

I'll stop being sarcastic if you stop being illogical.

 

[Lynx]

but as you have said before, the bbs fans make up only a fraction of all the voyager fans, besides even if this board were truely representative, then there is a poll running on another thread where the majority of voters want janeway to stay dead, (50-something percent) so even if they thought it was a stunt at first, then they're quite content with it now...

There are a lot of people who dislikes Janeway and there are alot of people who dislikes Voyager as well. I guess that some of them are taking the opportunity to show some mailce over a character (and a series) they dislike. if, let's say Archer would be killed off and there would be a similar poll, I guess that some of those who dislike Archer and Enterprise would jump in there to vote for the death of the character.

Besides that, most of the Janeway fans and Voyager fans hardly knows about the TrekLit forum and the polls here. There are actually people who don't post or aren't even registerd here at the TrekBBS.

 

[Thrawn]

but as you have said before, the bbs fans make up only a fraction of all the voyager fans, besides even if this board were truely representative, then there is a poll running on another thread where the majority of voters want janeway to stay dead, (50-something percent) so even if they thought it was a stunt at first, then they're quite content with it now...

There are a lot of people who dislikes Janeway and there are alot of people who dislikes Voyager as well. I guess that some of them are taking the opportunity to show some mailce over a character (and a series) they dislike. if, let's say Archer would be killed off and there would be a similar poll, I guess that some of those who dislike Archer and Enterprise would jump in there to vote for the death of the character.

Besides that, most of the Janeway fans and Voyager fans hardly knows about the TrekLit forum and the polls here. There are actually people who don't post or aren't even registerd here at the TrekBBS.

EXACTLY.

Any internet forum is going to be a tiny little piece of a tiny little piece of a fandom, and is going to represent absolutely nothing.

If our anectodal poll means nothing, neither does your board full of Janeway fans.

 

[Lynx]

but as you have said before, the bbs fans make up only a fraction of all the voyager fans, besides even if this board were truely representative, then there is a poll running on another thread where the majority of voters want janeway to stay dead, (50-something percent) so even if they thought it was a stunt at first, then they're quite content with it now...

There are a lot of people who dislikes Janeway and there are alot of people who dislikes Voyager as well. I guess that some of them are taking the opportunity to show some mailce over a character (and a series) they dislike. if, let's say Archer would be killed off and there would be a similar poll, I guess that some of those who dislike Archer and Enterprise would jump in there to vote for the death of the character.

Besides that, most of the Janeway fans and Voyager fans hardly knows about the TrekLit forum and the polls here. There are actually people who don't post or aren't even registerd here at the TrekBBS.

EXACTLY.

Any internet forum is going to be a tiny little piece of a tiny little piece of a fandom, and is going to represent absolutely nothing.

If our anectodal poll means nothing, neither does your board full of Janeway fans.

I do believe that there are more Janeway fans out there than there are worshippers of the current direction of Star trek literature here.

 

[JB2005]

But that's only a "feeling" you don't know for sure...I do believe that there is no god, but there are 1.2 billion catholics who would disagree with me...

 

[Thrawn]

I do believe that there are more Janeway fans out there than there are worshippers of the current direction of Star trek literature here.

Yippie skippie. Show me some evidence or drop it.

 

[rfmcdpei]

There are a lot of people who dislikes Janeway and there are alot of people who dislikes Voyager as well. I guess that some of them are taking the opportunity to show some mailce over a character (and a series) they dislike. if, let's say Archer would be killed off and there would be a similar poll, I guess that some of those who dislike Archer and Enterprise would jump in there to vote for the death of the character.

Besides that, most of the Janeway fans and Voyager fans hardly knows about the TrekLit forum and the polls here. There are actually people who don't post or aren't even registerd here at the TrekBBS.

EXACTLY.

Any internet forum is going to be a tiny little piece of a tiny little piece of a fandom, and is going to represent absolutely nothing.

If our anectodal poll means nothing, neither does your board full of Janeway fans.

I do believe that there are more Janeway fans out there than there are worshippers of the current direction of Star trek literature here.

You continue to discount evidence and possibilities to the contrary of your thesis, that many people might like the direction of the Voyager novels, that many people think Janeway died nobly, et cetera.

If you're unwilling to be convinced of other possibilities and are interested only in making bad arguments, what are you doing here?