Harlan Ellison COTEF Lawsuit Gains Momentum
- Thread starter Ryan Thomas Riddle
- Start date
"‘F- - - -in’-A damn skippy!’ I’m no hypocrite. It ain’t about the ‘principle,’ friend, its about the MONEY! Pay Me! Am I doing this for other writers, for Mom (still dead), and apple pie? Hell no! I’m doing it for the 35-year-long disrespect and the money!"
I love that guy!
I love that guy!
I think the flaming rules need some adjustment.Son of a bitch! I post the article first, hours ahead of both TrekMovie and Trekweb, and who do you fuckers on the board I run quote? TrekMovie!
(No offense, Tony. You run a fine place.)
maybe im wrong here but didnt he lose the rights to coteof when he sold it to paramount all those years ago?maybe instead of suing over something he wrote over forty years ago , he should actually come up with some new stories that will provide him with a revenue stream! what a jerk!
So, Harlan is fighting over the use of his concepts without being paid? I imagine he’s primarily referring to the Guardian of Forever and Edith Keeler, since nothing else in the episode was his creation.
Edith Keeler is a character he created and I can understand the requirement for payment of him for the use of her in stories. If she was used in an ornament, I would think Joan Collins deserves a cut because it’s her likeness being sold.
The Guardian, however, is a bit of a problem. Harlan Ellison’s unused drafts included The Guardians of Forever, three ancient beings who controlled time. The finished episode, heavily rewritten by writers other than Ellison, has The Guardian (singular) of Forever, a mysterious, donut shaped time portal. It is an extrapolation of the original three beings, but NOT the three beings. Harlan introduced a concept which evolved by others into something else in the final episode. And THIS is the concept you see marketed and written about.
Yes, it’s splitting hairs, but that’s what lawsuits are all about. Harlan is entitled to credit, absolutely. But payment every time the Guardian is used? I don’t agree.
If the court awards Ellison his damages, it will set a bad precedent and really open the floodgates. The Estate of John Meredyth Lucas should then be compensated for every mention of Richard Daystrom. The Gene Coon estate should be paid for every mention of Zephram Cochrane. Or Klingons (holy shit, just back the Brinks truck up to the door).
Harlan turned in a few drafts which were not used and he admits as such. He got paid for his work and got sole credit on the aired episode, even though it was hardly his own work at that point. He also got the SWG award for his original work. For all of Roddenberry’s yapping, Harlan was still the guy who got the credit for the episode. The fans always gave him that credit as well.
He should get something for the use of the Edith Keeler character (who, funnily enough, is hardly ever merchandised). Otherwise, Harlan’s got nothing. And since Time Travel has been used in literature for 400 years, maybe HE should be paying some people as well.
Edith Keeler is a character he created and I can understand the requirement for payment of him for the use of her in stories. If she was used in an ornament, I would think Joan Collins deserves a cut because it’s her likeness being sold.
The Guardian, however, is a bit of a problem. Harlan Ellison’s unused drafts included The Guardians of Forever, three ancient beings who controlled time. The finished episode, heavily rewritten by writers other than Ellison, has The Guardian (singular) of Forever, a mysterious, donut shaped time portal. It is an extrapolation of the original three beings, but NOT the three beings. Harlan introduced a concept which evolved by others into something else in the final episode. And THIS is the concept you see marketed and written about.
Yes, it’s splitting hairs, but that’s what lawsuits are all about. Harlan is entitled to credit, absolutely. But payment every time the Guardian is used? I don’t agree.
If the court awards Ellison his damages, it will set a bad precedent and really open the floodgates. The Estate of John Meredyth Lucas should then be compensated for every mention of Richard Daystrom. The Gene Coon estate should be paid for every mention of Zephram Cochrane. Or Klingons (holy shit, just back the Brinks truck up to the door).
Harlan turned in a few drafts which were not used and he admits as such. He got paid for his work and got sole credit on the aired episode, even though it was hardly his own work at that point. He also got the SWG award for his original work. For all of Roddenberry’s yapping, Harlan was still the guy who got the credit for the episode. The fans always gave him that credit as well.
He should get something for the use of the Edith Keeler character (who, funnily enough, is hardly ever merchandised). Otherwise, Harlan’s got nothing. And since Time Travel has been used in literature for 400 years, maybe HE should be paying some people as well.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Coon's estate SHOULD be getting dollars for every frame of every trek made after he worked there (maybe not for Lil ENT or VOY, they don't seem to have built on anything he did -- i.e., anything good) ... his estate should have got bucks for TWOK since his rewrite of SS is what made it all possible ... JML oughta get screen credit for TMP.
I can see why some would think this particular claim excessive, but if you look at how little writers have benefitted from ancillary markets, a little catchup is probably in order. And since the WGA has been wimpy on a lot of this, they probably deserve to be on the shitlist or subpoena list as well. The one time I was a member of a union, it did absolutely nothing to help re-employ me when the company I worked for went out of business, despite the fact that the union membership was predicated on exactly that kind of security for members (unless you ripped somebody off, which I did not.)
Gene Coon and John Meredith Lucas were full-time staff members... Ellison was an freelance writer. I have no experience with these matters, but I think the laws and contracts apply differently.
Hopefully, someone with actual experience in the industry will come along and clear it up.
Hopefully, someone with actual experience in the industry will come along and clear it up.
Is it that time again already? I guess he's getting a little insecure that the younger generation doesn't know who he is. Hell, I'm pushing fourty, and my only real knowledge of him, aside for whatever it was he did on Babylon 5, is his lifelong crusade to hold onto his five minute association with Star Trek. Admittedly, I'm not the biggest hard sci-fi reader on the planet, and he may very well be a good writer, but this constant hard-on he has about having been treated the exact same way as every other writer in television in the day only serves to overshadow everything else he has acomplished as well as paint him up as the very definition of: false sense of entitlement. Perhaps not legally in this particular case, but from any of my observations, including too many convention tirades, in general.
No, they don't. He's far more familiar with the facts in this case and as regards that teleplay than you are, and none of what you're suggesting is relevant to the merits of the lawsuit. We'll see what the courts decide.
I'm not seeing a problem here. Are you concerned that Sumner Redstone might have to give up Bushmill's once a week for shot of "Old Jiffy Still?"
I should rephrase; it's not a problem for anyone but the studio. And, I do really understand who crappily writers are being treated, they should all be getting much bigger cuts of the pie from the start, since it all begins with the writers.
However, my point in that quote was that if Paramount back paid Lucas, Coon and whomever for everything done officially based on thier concepts, they would lose a boatload of money. I don't know if it's enough to make a real dent or not, but assuming they have to compensate for the decades of books, movies and TV shows made using these ideas, it could do enough damage to have Paramount say "F this Star Trek crap, it costs to much before we even put out any product" and close the book on it. Suddenly the already floundering, half dead cash cow is done, ground into burgers for eneryone getting checks. I'm not just talking about new product, but video releases, books, what have you.
Granted, being just some dude on on Long Island, I admit I have no numbers to make this anything more than talking out of my ass. But Paramount might very well conclude that paying a group of people money to release stuff from a show they "assumed" was all theirs could be enough to stop the Wagon Train. Like not wanting to pay for music clearances. They either cut the songs out or pay the licenses. Paramount likes to cut.
However, my point in that quote was that if Paramount back paid Lucas, Coon and whomever for everything done officially based on thier concepts, they would lose a boatload of money. I don't know if it's enough to make a real dent or not, but assuming they have to compensate for the decades of books, movies and TV shows made using these ideas, it could do enough damage to have Paramount say "F this Star Trek crap, it costs to much before we even put out any product" and close the book on it. Suddenly the already floundering, half dead cash cow is done, ground into burgers for eneryone getting checks. I'm not just talking about new product, but video releases, books, what have you.
Granted, being just some dude on on Long Island, I admit I have no numbers to make this anything more than talking out of my ass. But Paramount might very well conclude that paying a group of people money to release stuff from a show they "assumed" was all theirs could be enough to stop the Wagon Train. Like not wanting to pay for music clearances. They either cut the songs out or pay the licenses. Paramount likes to cut.
I suggest that from this day forward we all simply refer to it as "The Custodian of Forever" and call the woman "Edie Keelhall" and to hell with whiny Harlan.
I'm surprised Ellison hasn't shown up at my house and demanded compensation from me because I WATCHED the episode.
I'm surprised Ellison hasn't shown up at my house and demanded compensation from me because I WATCHED the episode.
Not saying there isn't merit to Harlan Ellison's case, but it's essentially a nuisance suit now that "Star Trek" looks like it will be a hit. He's hoping they'll just settle and make him go away. If not, they'll stall this out for years that Ellison may or may not have to wait. Of course, a part of him also thrives on the publicity and being a pain in someone's rear end.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Dude..why did you give him that idea..there's some strange dude knocking at my door right now!!!!
Rob