"Tomorrow Is Yesterday" Question

[Dayton3]

In "Tomorrow Is Yesterday", Kirk orders the tractor beam locked on to Captain Christopher's F-4 Phantom because Spock identifies it as

"A U.S. Air Force interceptor. Possibly armed with nuclear missiles. If he hits us with one it could damage us severely. Possibly beyond our ability to repair under present circumstances".

Now, I know that theoretically you can bolt a nuclear weapon on nearly any aircraft.

But.

The ONLY U.S. Air Force nuclear armed air to air missile was the unguided Genie which had a relatively small nuclear warhead.

IIRC, the F-4 Phantom (which Christophers plane clearly is) was never deployed with the Genie.

Now, you will say "Perhaps Spock didn't know this".

I say he managed to identify the closing aircraft as an "interceptor" correctly despite the F-4 configured for ground attacks looking virtually the same.

Second point.

Couldn't Spock have detected any nuclear missiles aboard Christophers plane with the Enterprise sensors?

I believe that today, in the early 21st century it is already possible to detect nuclear weapons aboard an aircraft or ship at a distance.

So by the late 23rd century, even with the Enterprise sensors degraded by damage and power loss, Spock should've been able to detect any nuclear warheads hanging on the pylons of Christophers plane. Especially as it was closing rapidly on the Enterprise.

Just a small nit and perfectly understandable, but one of the biggest inconsistencies in all of Star Trek (all series) has been how and when sensors work (or don't).

 

[Maurice]

Maybe there was just no stock footage of an F-101 Voodoo available. Or no one cared.

 

[Outpost4]

^ I'm guessing the producers used the F-104 because it was the coolest looking plane in the USAF inventory at that time. It looked futuristic. The rest of the Century Series looked sort of blah to me.

And Dayton3, errr, Captain Christopher's plane was "clearly" a F-104 Starfighter, not a F-4 Phantom II. And the F-104, while capable of ground attack, was primarily an interceptor. Beyond that, expecting Spock to know exactly what weapons were carried by what was to him an alien plane that hadn't flown for 250 years was not unexpected or even out of character.

F-104:

F-4 Phantom II:

Screen cap from Tomorrow Is Yesterday:

 

[Maurice]

I didn't even notice he'd typed F-4.

While the F-104 Starfighter was cleared to carry the Genie (click here for a description of the missile), it was never actually done in operational service.

 

[Gary7]

Yes, it was definitely an F-104 Starfighter, not an F-4 Phantom. I don't know where you heard/saw F-4... As Output4 indicates from the photos, the designs are quite distinctive, especially at the tail section.

Technically, you can't bolt a nuclear weapon on just any aircraft... there are a number of factors that must be considered, to include weight, size, and capable interfaces.

Regardless, the F-104 Starfighter specifications "included AIM-7 Sparrow and Selenia Aspide medium-range air-to-air missiles, rocket pods, conventional bombs and even nuclear-tipped weaponry (the latter restricted to placement along the centerline hardpoint)."

 

[Alpha_Geek]

I didn't even notice he'd typed F-4.

While the F-104 Starfighter was cleared to carry the Genie (click here for a description of the missile), it was never actually done in operational service.

Yeah the footage of the F-104 launching a Genie off that "trapeze" rack in tests is interesting. The Discover Channels "Wings" episode on the 104 was the last place I saw it.

The 104 was amazingly versatile for an interceptor. It's a shame the USAF didn't make as much use of it as Kelly Johnson had envisioned.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

...The rest of the Century Series looked sort of blah to me...

Even the 102 and 106? If I was looking for footage to use, I probably would have gone with one of them for the "CLF" (Cool Look Factor).

Another factor in what they selected to use footage of may have been the presence of a bubble canopy in the props department. if they had 102 or 106 footage, they may have had to build something, ot perhaps because of the bad shooting angles the window frames would have necessitated, they opted for something with more plexiglass and less frame.

 

[Dayton3]

Sorry.

Don't know why I said F-4 instead of F-104.

That said, I still don't know why Spock couldn't say definitively that Christophers plane wasn't carrying nuclear weapons

 

[Shatmandu]

In "Tomorrow Is Yesterday", Kirk orders the tractor beam locked on to Captain Christopher's F-4 Phantom because Spock identifies it as

"A U.S. Air Force interceptor. Possibly armed with nuclear missiles. If he hits us with one it could damage us severely. Possibly beyond our ability to repair under present circumstances".

His repeated use of the word "Possibly" answers all your questions.

Joe, impossibly

 

[Noname Given]

In "Tomorrow Is Yesterday", Kirk orders the tractor beam locked on to Captain Christopher's F-4 Phantom because Spock identifies it as

"A U.S. Air Force interceptor. Possibly armed with nuclear missiles. If he hits us with one it could damage us severely. Possibly beyond our ability to repair under present circumstances".

Now, I know that theoretically you can bolt a nuclear weapon on nearly any aircraft.

But.

The ONLY U.S. Air Force nuclear armed air to air missile was the unguided Genie which had a relatively small nuclear warhead.

IIRC, the F-4 Phantom (which Christophers plane clearly is) was never deployed with the Genie.

Now, you will say "Perhaps Spock didn't know this".

I say he managed to identify the closing aircraft as an "interceptor" correctly despite the F-4 configured for ground attacks looking virtually the same.

Second point.

Couldn't Spock have detected any nuclear missiles aboard Christophers plane with the Enterprise sensors?

I believe that today, in the early 21st century it is already possible to detect nuclear weapons aboard an aircraft or ship at a distance.

So by the late 23rd century, even with the Enterprise sensors degraded by damage and power loss, Spock should've been able to detect any nuclear warheads hanging on the pylons of Christophers plane. Especially as it was closing rapidly on the Enterprise.

Just a small nit and perfectly understandable, but one of the biggest inconsistencies in all of Star Trek (all series) has been how and when sensors work (or don't).

!0 The 1701 had just used all power to escape a black hole (star); and not all systems were up and running, or running at normal efficiency. We don't know how well Spocks sensors were working at the time.

(I loved the old days of YATI rationalizing).

 

[Nerys Myk]

In "Tomorrow Is Yesterday", Kirk orders the tractor beam locked on to Captain Christopher's F-4 Phantom because Spock identifies it as

"A U.S. Air Force interceptor. Possibly armed with nuclear missiles. If he hits us with one it could damage us severely. Possibly beyond our ability to repair under present circumstances".

His repeated use of the word "Possibly" answers all your questions.

Joe, impossibly

Plus, its a TV show and needed some suspense.

 

[Timo]

Honestly, it doesn't strike me as plausible that Spock would know the difference between various 20th century USAF interceptors and their weaponry (he didn't get the DY-100 right even with fully functional sensors in "Space Seed", and that'd be a more relevant things-that-go-zoom-fetish factoid for him than primitive aircraft types) - but it does sound likely that he could whip up some data from his computer even if sensors were largely down, and would have the facts right on the USAF possessing and operating small fission devices in the anti-aircraft mission at that time.

Also, the Trek universe isn't the same as ours, and never was. It's perfectly plausible that the F-104s of that time carried fission-warhead AAMs routinely in the Trek 1960s, and perhaps even went to war with them a couple of times. The Omaha Air Base is a deliberate mixture of fact and fiction, so the selection and ordnance of its aircraft could well be, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[J.T.B.]

The ONLY U.S. Air Force nuclear armed air to air missile was the unguided Genie which had a relatively small nuclear warhead.

Not correct, there was the AIM-26A Falcon which was a radar guided AAM with the small W54 warhead. It was, AFAIK, only carried operationally by F-102's and possibly 106's.

I say he managed to identify the closing aircraft as an "interceptor" correctly despite the F-4 configured for ground attacks looking virtually the same.

The aircraft was climbing fast on an intercepting course and no doubt hitting them with radar. You wouldn't need to see the exact configuration to make it as an interceptor.

So by the late 23rd century, even with the Enterprise sensors degraded by damage and power loss, Spock should've been able to detect any nuclear warheads hanging on the pylons of Christophers plane. Especially as it was closing rapidly on the Enterprise.

As others have pointed out, he said "possibly." Even if the sensors indicated no nukes, he was taking no chances and informing the captain of the biggest possible threat. Also, how do we know what the sensors "should" have been able to detect in their damaged state?

I think it's pretty simple: They were being intercepted by a USAF plane, and Spock knew USAF planes could carry a nuclear missile. No need to get into a history lesson or try to detect fissionable material, he gives the captain the worst-case risk assessment. No sense trusting degraded sensors against the possibility of being hit with a nuclear weapon.

Thank God it wasn't an F-4, then they'd have two guys to beam back into their seats at the exact split second!

--Justin

 

[Timo]

...A process that would kill them both, just like it killed Christopher. Which makes one wonder why they bothered with it at all. One of the Christophers dies anyway: the one being beamed down, or the one into whose personal space the other one beams. Why not simply gun down the guy they had aboard? Because doing it this way was more humane to the victim, who didn't figure it out in time?

In any case, it's reassuring to know that the starship can fly rock steady in an atmosphere after "everything but secondary systems" is knocked out, at least long enough for Scotty to override the automatics and take control. One wonders if the automatics didn't play some role in guiding the ship to Earth after the encounter with the black star, as it would be too much a coincidence if the ship managed to hit that planet across interstellar distances by accident alone...

Or did the lost little ship head for the thing she felt was the most like home in the 20th century - USAF search radar emissions?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[guardian]

When exactly did they reveal the precise inventory carried by the F-104?

likely long after the series ended.

any comments on the acuracy of the air force uniforms in the ep.?
How about the locations of the bases?
Procedure after catching an intruder?
The angle of approach the plane took?

 

[Timo]

As a layman, I have to resort to the obvious. Such as, how come Christopher intercepts solo, rather than with at least one wingman? However, this could probably be excused since it was a rather hasty scramble: if the wingman suffered a technical mishap of some sort before takeoff, Christopher obviously wouldn't stay and wait for a replacement.

Memory Alpha has stuff on this Omaha Air Base, which seems to correspond to Offutt AFB in both the footage used and the general location.

The uniform of the interrogating officer has been critiqued for incorrect detail, I seem to recall - the same sort that went with "Little Green Men", with the right pins in the wrong places or at odd angles. But one might assume that our heroes buzzed the base on a very quiet weekend, and everybody scrambled from a party or a bed, in slightly messed-up uniforms. That would explain the rather empty corridors, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[HIj'Qa]

How about the locations of the bases?

Screen cap from Tomorrow Is Yesterday:

That's not Nebraska in the background

 

[Nerys Myk]

How about the locations of the bases?

Screen cap from Tomorrow Is Yesterday:

That's not Nebraska in the background

TV Nebraska and Kansas have mountains. Or its an alternate timeline.

 

[Timo]

Or a crater rim from the last time the Russkies took potshots at the base. Or a clever piece of camouflage to prevent said folks from doing said thing with any accuracy...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dayton3]

Perhaps the remastered Original Series can correct these problems.