Poll: Janeway & Gender
- Thread starter kimc
- Start date
- Status
I greatly disagree with this. I think survival is paramount not keeping up some image of the Federation so as not to tarnish it's almighty reputation in the galaxy. There is a fine line, but I don't see a problem with pissing off a few species just because you want to cross their space. It'd be different if she went through killing everybody and stealing resources as she did so, but harmlessly crossing a species space with absolutely no ill effect, big deal. Now, I do think it would behoove her to try to come up with the best possible way to accomplish the goals without pissing of people and stepping on toes (which is the difference between her and Captain Ransom) but if you come to an interstellar empire that isn't powerful enough to stop you and you have no intention of harming them in anyway, then I'm all for crossing that space and saying "screw you" I'm going through here.
Tuvix was a mostly impossible choice. I don't see how anyone can fault her for either decision to be made. Kill Tuvix and let Tuvok and Neelix live, or kill Neelix and Tuvok and let Tuvix live. Either way she's going to have to decide to kill somebody so somebody else can live.
It is my opinion (purely conjecture and colored by my cynical perception of humanity) that people dislike the Tuvix decision because Tuvix was a more likable and "better" character than either Tuvok or Neelix, so people wanted that to stay rather than what we had. People didn't want to see an overly logical apparently arrogant and stiff vulcan, nor did they want to see an annoying little overly talkative elf with seemingly no manners. We much prefer the calm friendly cool easy to be around much more human (or how we like to think of ourselves anyhow) person we got with Tuvix.
I've gone to a fairly reliable and detailed review site to get its take on "The Swarm".
So, Janeway violated Starfleet regulations by invading the declared and defended space of an uncontacted civilization.
Again: What would have happened had she done this to the Romulans? How would Starfleet have reacted? Why don't the same principles apply here?
Last edited:
I'm male and I detest Janeway. That's not because I'm a hater of female commanders, though; it's because I don't like Janeway. I love Hernandez 
.
.
I agree with this analysis--Janeway needed to loosen up and access that "Inner Kirk."
But Kirk didn't go boldly charging into territories claimed by other hostile states after warnings. The only time he did was when he infiltrated Romulan space in order to steal a copy of the Romulans' cloaking device.
Kirk actually was a pretty responsible captain. Janeway, now, was willing to take unacceptably high risks with unknown long-term consequences. Who knows what the Swarm is going to do in the long run? The episode that featured the Maquis' repurposed Cardassian missile suggested that Voyager had acquired a very negative reputation for itself since its arrival. The UFP may have a hard time of it in the Delta Qaudrant ...
Last edited:
I did, and I disagree with it.
Review Boy misreads, I think, Kirk's adventurousness. Looking at the episodes, the most adventurous ones are "Arena" when the Enterprise pursues the Gorn into their territory after the destruction of Cestus III, "A Taste of Armageddon" when the ship intervenes in the Eminiar/Vendikar war (but only after it's made a target), and "The Enterprise Incident" when Kirk is under orders to steal a cloaking device. Even in these instances Kirk did not go looking for wild risky adventures; the adventures found him, and he tried to deal with them accordingly.
In any case, Review Boy's positive appraisal of Janeway's actions is based on his evaluation of them as dramatically interesting. That's fine, and that might well be correct from the viewer's perspective. From an in-universe perspective, Janeway violated the stated frontiers of a sovereign alien power, violating Starfleet regulations and killing an unknown number of Swarm individuals in order to take a shortcut, incidentally exposing her ship to the non-trivial risk of either being destroyed (bad) or having its crew massacred and being captured (even worse).
This is only one example of Janeway's long history of taking excessive and often insanely dangerous risks, her various dealings/subversions of the Borg being a case in point. It's not surprising that she meets her end in Before Dishonor when she makes a bold misjudgement.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I dislike the Tuvix decision for exactly the same reason the Doctor spoke out against it--it's a breach of medical ethics and against everything Starfleet stands for.
A sentient being refused the procedure. That should be the end of it.
Right. It must be easy to see it in such black and white tones as you do.
Kill Tuvix - get Neelix and Tuvok back - or let Tuvix live and kill Neelix and Tuvok. In my world that really IS a no-win situation and I LOVED Janeway for making the tough call.
She needed her two crew members back and loved them just as much if not more - as did others. Kes among them.
But it killed her inside to do it.
Yeah, she should have let two crewmembers stay dead.
Luckily for her, a Vulcan family would be understanding of the logic, and wouldn't be meeting Janeway for 70+ years. And Neelix had no family.
What would you have done if you were captain, and it wasn't Tuvix, but a transporter combination of Tom Paris and Naomi Wildman? How would you explain to B'Elanna Torres and Samantha Wildman their loved ones were staying dead?
And as seen in the episode 'Tuvix', it was not an easy decision for Janeway. The look on her face when she leaves from sickbay says it all. She did realize what she had to do for the poor 'hybrid' and why the Doctor did refuse to do it. But ultimately it was the right thing to do - or less wrong.
Sentient doesn't mean emotionally mature either, and this sentient being was holding two other sentient beings hostage.
Brit
So you can killed disabled people? because many of them never become emotionally mature.
And by not killing Tuvix as you say, she'd be killing Tuvok and Neelix. How could that possibly be better?
She separated he who should not be into those who always were.
Doc's rigid algorithms do limit his actions and especially in this kind of moral dilemma. His oath states clearly "do no harm", so what can be done when there's no other option than to choose from two harmful actions? Doctor can't do anything. But someone had to choose the less harmful option and Janeway did just that.
They don't close their eyes.
It's a moral dilemma for everyone (including the audience) - except the emotionless hologram.
So what are all those episodes about the doctor as a person about then if he's an emotionless hologram? we should just skip those because it's meaningless?
He doesn't say "My program does not permit me to take this action" he says "my oath as a doctor..."
- Status
