Star Trek Fundamentalism
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You know, back in the old days I've have thought you'd had a vacation home there or something.
Plumster
Commander
You know, back in the old days I've have thought you'd had a vacation home there or something.
What's a WalMart?
Although, please accept my apologies for any upset I may have caused the old guard.
You know, back in the old days I've have thought you'd had a vacation home there or something.
I had a time-share with reno floyd for a while.
^
It's like ASDA (which is, in fact, a subsidiary of Wal-Mart.)Stopped there before. No Starbucks, no Krispy Kreme. Just a fucking WalMart.
You know, back in the old days I've have thought you'd had a vacation home there or something.
What's a WalMart?
As to the topic, I think the law of diminishing returns has come into effect. We'll let it run for a little longer, as long as there's still some productive discussion, but I suspect that the thread has now largely run its course.
This is better - at least you tried to make some points unlike the previous poster who falls into the zealots trap of attacking the poster rather than the point.
You sir are a Trekker I submit - old skool - but still a Trekker.
Hat off to you.
How the heck? Did I just ...
Would someone explain to me what just happened? I feel like I just confronted a mugger and he bought me a beer.
SINCE WHEN DO I GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE?!
Plumster
Commander
This is better - at least you tried to make some points unlike the previous poster who falls into the zealots trap of attacking the poster rather than the point.
You sir are a Trekker I submit - old skool - but still a Trekker.
Hat off to you.
How the heck? Did I just ...
Would someone explain to me what just happened? I feel like I just confronted a mugger and he bought me a beer.
SINCE WHEN DO I GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE?!
Since you took the trouble to reply to the post properly.
My position is evolving now into the idea that there will now be 3 versions of Trek and that these versions will live alongside one another but that there will always be the zealot element that will wish to impose it's view of Trek on all others.
1) Roddenberry's Trek - up to the end of Season 1 of TNG and the last vestages of influence in the TOS movies.
2) Berman's Trek or TrekLite as I like to call it and despise it by - everything after season 1
3) Abram's Trek - all hail to Abram's.
Three versions but only two movements - one and two vs three.
2009 = year one of Star Trek. All that has gone before should now be consigned to the bin along with anyone who hankers after OAP's clattering around shakey sets to increasingly stupid stories. Story arcs ilike the shite Berman crapped on me should be abandoned - character arcs made the TOS what it still is - long stories and seasons about Klingon honour and Neelix did not.
As for Neelix............
Stopped there before. No Starbucks, no Krispy Kreme. Just a fucking WalMart.
You know, back in the old days I've have thought you'd had a vacation home there or something.
I had a time-share with reno floyd for a while.
I've been there far fewer times than one would expect.
You know, back in the old days I've have thought you'd had a vacation home there or something.
I had a time-share with reno floyd for a while.
I've been there far fewer times than one would expect.
Musta had a good attorney.
Remember, the original fans were just "the general audiance" when TOS premiered, they became lifelong fans because Star Trek was (at the time at least) such a great, unigue show! There would be no Trek today, at all, if not for the original fans and their dedication. Contemporary Trek has not been able to duplicate this feat and attract the same kind of devotion, at least not to the same scale or to the same degree. Blame it on lack of talent, bad writing, bad casting, bad art direction, or all of the above, but don't blame it on the "fundementalist" who were simply among the first to say "This isn't Star Trek"! It may be just a gut feeling, but most people (whether fans or not) know-even if they can't put it into words-when TPTB get it right, even though, more often than not TPTB got it wrong. If Star Trek survives, It'll be because JJ and his "supreme court" got it right, I'll wait and see the movie and see what my gut tells me.
actually it may have been the second generation of fans..those who discovered tos once it went into syndication who maybe saved trek for the future.
and a case could be made that gene saw with tng a chance to reboot the trek universe because by that time he was displeased with certain aspects of tos.
as one way trips to warning land of walmarts..
shrug some of them actually have things like starbucks.
as for sam not being warned more often..
:P
well there is court martial
but through the thread you have attacked individuals.
whatever..
as i said before there is nothing new under the sun in this thread.
that the movie would split trek fandom was laid out many moons ago within the future of trek forum right after the announcement about the movie/
heck some of us actually saw it start to happen in threads back there.
even then i still dont know it is will be the greatest split we have ever seen.
the one with the first season of tng was pretty bad.
each of the subsequent shows bought their own heated debates.
and a case could be made that gene saw with tng a chance to reboot the trek universe because by that time he was displeased with certain aspects of tos.
as one way trips to warning land of walmarts..
shrug some of them actually have things like starbucks.
as for sam not being warned more often..
:P
well there is court martial
but through the thread you have attacked individuals.
whatever..
as i said before there is nothing new under the sun in this thread.
that the movie would split trek fandom was laid out many moons ago within the future of trek forum right after the announcement about the movie/
heck some of us actually saw it start to happen in threads back there.
even then i still dont know it is will be the greatest split we have ever seen.
the one with the first season of tng was pretty bad.
each of the subsequent shows bought their own heated debates.
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You know, back in the old days I've have thought you'd had a vacation home there or something.
I had a time-share with reno floyd for a while.
I've been there far fewer times than one would expect.
As I recall, the townsfolk were shocked speechless the first time you got off the train.
I think it was the spats.
You discount everything after the first season of TNG because of your Roddenberry fetish, and you think we're the fundamentalists?
Man. My ignore button has been feeling real lonely ever since I took Polaris off my list way the heck back in October (he's since become one of my favorite posters, and I'm not sure whether this is because he's changed or I did. Disturbing thought. Anyhow). Time to give it some excercise.
Man. My ignore button has been feeling real lonely ever since I took Polaris off my list way the heck back in October (he's since become one of my favorite posters, and I'm not sure whether this is because he's changed or I did. Disturbing thought. Anyhow). Time to give it some excercise.
Plumster
Commander
You mean that number 2?
Number 2 covers me as i am one who rarely watches any full episode of trek anymore, including ones I have not seen. Why? Because I see the same rehashed storylines over and over. I see the same mistakes made over and over. I see the same unrealistic changes of character just to fit the one episodes script...over and over.
Are we reading the same #2? Cause I see number 2 as those that wish they could see something fresh, but turn an episode off after giving it five or ten minutes to interest them. And after so many tries, eventually give up on the entire series altogether.
#1 in all unbiased honesty, more matches what you claim to be #2, ratings are based on watchers who are tuned in for a full hour, not 5 or ten minutes. So #1 would be the match, as #2's usually change channel or don't tune in at all after a while of consistent disappoint.
See I'm a number 2'er who says it how it actually is. I do not see how the 2's as described in that quote, could be the ones who would watch it all and give it ratings...I honestly can't see them as being the dedicated no-matter-what watches. if they are so wanting something fresh and new, it means they got tired of the old rehashed repetitiveness long before those series were over. However, i can see 1's being the series dedicated 'no matter what will watch series from start to finish' fanbase.
then the truth is, you get some in both categories who have given up or watched despite knowing how bad it was getting. But still moreso in category 1
(To OP) Historically speaking, change allows survival.
As for the emergent discussion, I'm as diehard a Trek fan as they come and a have a lot of friends who are old school. Growing up the in the 80s, they were only tolerant of TNG and are for the most part, TOS purists.
I can see Trek Fundamentalism (great term, by the way) is going to boil over in May.
So I intend to get a bag of salted, unbuttered popcorn and prepare for the ride. The ride during the movie and after the movie. The fundamentalists can scream holy hell until they are blue (warp nacelles) in the face, but it won't erase the Paramount sanctioned movie.
I'm very interested in what Gene's son will have to say about this film. I reckon his point of view will have more clout with the Trek "fundies" than Berman's, Ron Moore's, Brannon Braga's the DS9 guy with the beard, Shatner and Manny Cotos's combined.
As for the emergent discussion, I'm as diehard a Trek fan as they come and a have a lot of friends who are old school. Growing up the in the 80s, they were only tolerant of TNG and are for the most part, TOS purists.
I can see Trek Fundamentalism (great term, by the way) is going to boil over in May.
So I intend to get a bag of salted, unbuttered popcorn and prepare for the ride. The ride during the movie and after the movie. The fundamentalists can scream holy hell until they are blue (warp nacelles) in the face, but it won't erase the Paramount sanctioned movie.
I'm very interested in what Gene's son will have to say about this film. I reckon his point of view will have more clout with the Trek "fundies" than Berman's, Ron Moore's, Brannon Braga's the DS9 guy with the beard, Shatner and Manny Cotos's combined.
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Plumster
Commander
You are far more articulate than I could ever possibly be, what a superb post and thank you for looking past the spikey exterior of the subject matter and all the fuss that goes with trying to engage with some people on this matter and doing an analysis of the points I was trying badly to make.
Good job Bill - great post.
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