I'm sure that most duckblind missions go just fine. Those ones just don't make for interesting television.
Typhon Pact..Do tell?
- Thread starter BryanSorensen
- Start date
Of course cultures shouldn't be interfered with, in the sense of imposed upon by force, but it's wrong to assume that any and all contact constitutes interference, or that a less advanced culture is somehow "not ready" for contact with outsiders. That's a grossly naive assumption that overlooks the fact that any single planet is going to have thousands of different cultures at different levels of advancement, and it's therefore quite routine in any culture's history to come into contact with cultures that introduce it to new ideas or advances. That's not contamination, it's natural, healthy cross-cultural interaction. The myth that you often hear is that "when two cultures at different advancement come into contact, the less advanced culture is invariably damaged/destroyed," but that's complete and utter BS. Half a millennium or so ago, a backward, isolated culture called Europe came into contact with the far more advanced technologies of the Mideast and Asia -- technologies such as gunpowder, the magnetic compass, the printing press, the lateen sail, and advanced metallurgical methods -- and far from being destroyed by the "interference," Europe was able to take this alien knowledge and use it to become prosperous and powerful.
The only times a less advanced culture has been destroyed (or nearly so) by a more advanced culture is when that more advanced culture is deliberately trying to destroy it, or when it's unintentionally wiped out by imported diseases to which it has no immunity. It's never the result of exposure to new knowledge. Cultures are resilient, adaptable entities that cope with change all the time. Expose them to new knowledge and they'll keep what parts of it they're comfortable with, adapt what they can to fit their worldview, and ignore the rest.
That's the true purpose behind the Prime Directive, despite how it's been dumbed down and extremized in the 24th century. It's not "Don't make any contact with the primitives because they're too stupid and fragile to survive it," which is condescending crap. The idea is, "Don't tell other civilizations what to do or how to think. Don't try to make their decisions for them. If you must make contact, do so carefully and with respect for their right to believe and choose as they wish. Remember that your own judgment is imperfect, so don't assume you know better than they do." Avoiding contact altogether is the simplest way of doing that, but it isn't the only way and isn't always the right way; for instance, despite what 24th-century Starfleet says, it's insane and cruel to let a civilization die rather than make contact with it.
or even to sit and let it die when a sodding great rock comes screaming through space towards it and you could stop the rock.
That I can accept but the rock can e destroyed without the civilisation down on the planet knowing about it, unless they have sophisticated enough telescopes.
Absolute laws are by definition unjust. And when they cover whole civilizations it becomes even worse. The idea that “We can`t interfere no matter what because doing so could have disastrous consequences. Therefore we do nothing and whatever happens is not our fault.” is a sick way to avoid making difficult decisions and hide behind the letters of a law book. And at other times the PD becomes a tool used for political games. People stick to the PD when it suits them, people don`t when it becomes inconvenient. That includes finding new excuses what the PD actually covers or not.
Also, what is a pre-warp civilization that needs such drastic protection? If this is a civilization that has been completely untouched by aliens, civilizations that are, in a sense, uncontaminated, that should mean they are a protected species. Not only does that mean telling Starfleet officers to leave them alone but also to keep others away at least within Federation territory. That can range from protecting these people from invaders to people who look for new trade opportunities and tourists who are just curious. It should also mean protecting them from external threats like meteoroids. But when these people are busy trying to kill each other, matters become more difficult and have to be looked at very carefully indeed.
I think it is idiotic to use the absolute law of avoiding any contact with a pre-warp civilization when the damage has already been done. The PD should be about damage control and try to restore the independence of such a world as much as it is possible but also within reasonable limits. For example, starting a war with the Klingons because they turned another sentient species into their servants is probably not a good idea.
Also, what is a pre-warp civilization that needs such drastic protection? If this is a civilization that has been completely untouched by aliens, civilizations that are, in a sense, uncontaminated, that should mean they are a protected species. Not only does that mean telling Starfleet officers to leave them alone but also to keep others away at least within Federation territory. That can range from protecting these people from invaders to people who look for new trade opportunities and tourists who are just curious. It should also mean protecting them from external threats like meteoroids. But when these people are busy trying to kill each other, matters become more difficult and have to be looked at very carefully indeed.
I think it is idiotic to use the absolute law of avoiding any contact with a pre-warp civilization when the damage has already been done. The PD should be about damage control and try to restore the independence of such a world as much as it is possible but also within reasonable limits. For example, starting a war with the Klingons because they turned another sentient species into their servants is probably not a good idea.
You're absolutely right that it could be any terrorist. I also know the definition of terrorist.
Then you should know better than to gratuitously stick "Islamic" before the word as if there were some intrinsic link between Islam and terrorism. That's perpetuating a stereotype.
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the internet.
There's no rational reason for it. "We don't want to damage them so we'll let them be completely destroyed?" Totally senseless. Basically, what it boils down to is that the TNG writers thought they could get a cool ethical-dilemma story out of it.
How far does "non-interference" really go? We stop the population being wiped out by an extinction-level event, but do we stop the seismic activity tearing their world apart (Drema IV?) The PD though stated to be an absolute seems on further reflection to be more of a guideline that us emotional beings use when we can be swayed by an emotional plea.
^^Exactly. As Picard said in "Justice," "There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute." It's wrong to interpret the Prime Directive as something that absolutely forbids any interaction no matter what. As I said, the mistake there is equating contact with interference. It's not interfering just to talk to somebody or to expose them to new ideas, so long as you leave it up to them to decide what to do with those ideas. The point of the PD is to make sure you aren't reckless in dealing with other civilizations -- that you weigh the risks carefully before deciding if contact is warranted, and if you do make contact, you do so in a way that defers to the locals' autonomy and worldview as much as possible rather than pressuring them to see or do things your way. That's being responsible, while the more simplistic "hands off no matter what" approach is simply dodging responsibility.
I think I've got the Typhon Pact sussed:
They are to the Federation what the Legion of Doom is to the Super Friends.
They are to the Federation what the Legion of Doom is to the Super Friends.
I think I've got the Typhon Pact sussed:
They are to the Federation what the Legion of Doom is to the Super Friends.
More likely they are to the Federation as NATO was to the Soviet Union.
I think I've got the Typhon Pact sussed:
They are to the Federation what the Legion of Doom is to the Super Friends.
More likely they are to the Federation as NATO was to the Soviet Union.
Or what NATO was to the Warsaw Pact as that was created in direct response to NATO.
^ No more phone calls, we have a winner.
QFT, long time no see Dave.
No, I meant I'd love to see something like MI-5/Spooks in Trek Lit.
Considering the "They Killed Janeway?" threads here and the frequency with which Spooks/MI5 kills its main characters, a Trek-lit version of Spooks would very rapidly cause the Trekbbs server to explode...
yeah it could! The closest we've got to that kind of main character carnage is KRADs Myriad Universe story from last year.
Oh and that's one of the better things about Spooks, the turn over of the main characters is impressive esp last year what with (I'm not to good with spoilers so I'll leave saying) three main characters dying and a forth returning from the "dead" was pretty cool, I just hope Jo is disposed of soon and bring back Zoe
Christopher allows his characters to confront and debate the issue he raises here in Torrent Sea.
The planet we live on is pre-warp. If a Federation starship found us, would we really want it to hold firm to the Prime Directive and avoid contact? Or, would we want to get in line for the technology transfers?
The planet we live on is pre-warp. If a Federation starship found us, would we really want it to hold firm to the Prime Directive and avoid contact? Or, would we want to get in line for the technology transfers?
^^On the other hand, we probably would want them to honor the Prime Directive in terms of not imposing their influence on our politics or culture. This is what I think has been forgotten from TNG onward -- that the PD isn't so much about contact as it is about control. It's not primarily about whether you tell the natives you exist or not, it's about whether you try to run their lives for them. The restrictions on the former are meant to be merely a means to a more important end -- by not contacting them, you avoid the temptation of telling them what to do. But in the 24th century, it's come to be seen as an end in itself, and the true purpose of the PD has been misunderstood. It's no longer "They're smart enough to make their own decisions about their own lives," it's "They're too stupid not to go crazy if they're exposed to new ideas." It's gone from being about respect for cultural autonomy to being an exercise in paternalistic condescension.
