I haven't seen any do that to you in here so I assume that this is something from your past that you speak off - please don't blame us for that. We accept that you dislike J/C, you're certainly entitled to that and we've had zero Seven bashing so... Anyway J/7 for me is a mother/daughter or perhaps mentor/student relationship. I see no romantic relationship being possible there, but then that's me and I see J/C so...I might not be objective.
I realize the differences between the modern military and Starfleet, but...it's the closest parallel we've got, right at the moment. While there are limits, of course, and I hope I am not making the comparison too "strict," I am convinced it's a more valid comparison than, say, CEO of a corporation. CEOs don't generally have to worry about their facility being subject to attack, for example. But I do think that people are people now, people were people 400 years ago, and people will still be people 400 years from now. I hope we grow and become better people...but we will still be easily recognizable as the fallible species that we are now. So I think 400 years from now, there will still be things that a starship captain or first officer or second officer just ought not do, not because the actions are bad but because those actions are simply not compatible with being captain, first officer or second officer. Let me address the "70 years from home" issue, if you don't mind. I don't think we've talked much about this. I can see two big problems with sentiments (I don't think anybody's said this exactly, but I think my paraphrase is fair) such as, "How can you expect J and C to be alone for 70 years?" I've addressed one aspect of that before, and that is that a lot of people go through life without a partner and still lead good and satisfying lives. But beyond that... Does the crew of Voyager, does the captain of Voyager, really expect to be isolated in the DQ for 70 years? I don't think so. They talk about the possibility, of course, but it seems to me that for most of the voyage, they are trying to cut that time, they expect to get back much sooner than that - and in fact, no matter what timeline you favor, they do get back much sooner than that. If you're sentenced to prison for 70 years with no possibility of parole, you can reasonably expect to be there in prison for 70 years. But if you're an energetic and optimistic person who has had great success in using technology to solve problems, and you have at your command a powerful starship...do you really think Kathryn Janeway was convinced she'd be plodding hopelessly through the DQ for 70 years? I don't. While she no doubt had to consider the possibility, and while she no doubt had her moments when getting home seemed like a remote possibility, I doubt very much that she dwelled on it, and I doubt very very very much that her attitude was, "OK. This is it. Voyager is my home for pretty much the rest of my life. Whatever I'm going to make of my life, I've got to do it here. (So if I want romance, my only choices are the people here on this ship, and gee, Chakotay's really handsome...) No point in even considering what will happen after we get home. " No. Her attitude was always "I'm going to get you home, and I'm going to do it just as fast as I can, and I'm going to use any reasonable means to do so." That was her attitude starting right from the end of "Caretaker." So what I'm saying is, she didn't have to look ahead to 70 years of loneliness, if that's what command seemed to her, and I don't think she did. She just had to look ahead to getting home, and there's no way that the indominable Kathryn Janeway expected it to be a hopeless 70-year slog. And I still like you, too.
Opinions on "Places of Exhile" by C.L. Bennett? Did you like how J/C was written in it? Have you not read it? Wanna spoilers? Etc...?
That's why the laughing face. Really, you can only laugh when someone tries to judge you based on a 'ship. And that happens to 'shippers of every stripe.
I realize that I didn't make my point clear in my original post about Resolutions/Coda, so let me explain further: I understand that they had to return to business as usual. I think the one exception Janeway might have made was after Coda. But then there was nothing more. The next thing we see is Janeway with Michael Sullivan, then Chakotay with Seven. Even after Chakotay realizes that they might return to Earth he makes plans to stay withing transporter range of Seven. At that point I personally felt like I was punched in the gut. So what did happen to J/C? I assume that they did sleep together on New Earth and then again on that sailboat after Coda. There were certainly moments where it seemed as if the tension was still there and there was still an interest, yet nothing was every really resolved one way or another. That's my point and why I was so frustrated. I agree that a shipboard romance is not the best idea under the circumstances. I can honestly see both sides of this issue. But I didn't like how it was handled overall, especially in Endgame.
Then why do you judge all of us based on our ship of J/C? You've admitted to have very bad experiences with some J/Cers in the past. Why do you assume we are all like that?
Me personally? no. But you do get your back up when you think J/Cers are up to something, then point to how horribly they've treated you. Many times you catch me by surprise and completely off guard, because I'm not aware of your history. And again, everytime your name has come up, I hear nothing but compliments, especially with respect to your writing. This is why I'm baffled. You've also made an appearance in this thread and imo, everyone has been very cordial, as well they should be. So I don't get it.
This is called talking about the poster, not the post. I have already said, "carry on." This means "drop it." I'm out of this thread. If you would like to continue making me a topic of discussion, go right ahead. I won't be back to see what you're saying.
Actually, it's called talking to the poster, not about the poster. I am talking directly to you, as in replying to your post.
Don't usually wade into the VOY forum...but saw this thread from the main page and wanted to peek in. I know...I know....shocking, isn't it? But I have this to say: Incredible. Just incredible. Just when I thought kimc and I were the only ones left on this entire BBS. You go, girlfriends! I must confess that I don't watch much Voyager anymore. But back when it was on, I suppose that I characterized myself as a J/C'er...to the extent I was interested in any 'ship that is. It is my feeling that Star Trek writers, as a rule, write crappy 'ships. So I generally don't like ANY shipper stuff. If I want 'shipper action, I'll turn on Farscape or Buffy or something. Not Trek. But this one on VOY was the one exception. In fact, pretty much the ONLY 'ship in all of Star Trek that I cared about at all. And probably one of the chief reasons why the early seasons of VOY are my favorite. My feeling? 70 years is a long time.....and right from the first episodes I recall Janeway discussing the eventuality of a multi-generational ship (wasn't that the term she used?). Even she knew the rules were going to have to be 'bent' to accommodate the extraordinary circumstances they found themselves in. So I don't think VOY's situation was similar to the current U.S. Military or anything like that. I mean, how can you tell people that, because lady luck was looking the other way and we got stuck in the DQ for 70 years, our whole lives are lost? We cannot look forward to family life, children, or anything else. All we have to look forward to is the 'duty' of serving a code which is a bazillion miles away. Nah....I can't buy into the idea of telling people that. Of taking their lives away from them. And that includes Janeway and Chakotay. These people signed on for the 3 hour tour and got a lifetime (Gilligan's Island reference). Therefore, all bets are off. Or, at least they should be. Not saying it's 'ideal'. Not saying people shouldn't be discrete. Not saying we need to turn Voyager into the Love Boat or anything like that. I'm just saying that you can't expect people to give up any hope of a life outside of work, just because they had the misfortune of being assigned to a ship which ended up in the DQ by mistake.
^ I personally never said "people" should, and I don't think anybody else did either, unless they sneaked it in when I wasn't looking. I just think the captain, first officer and second officer should, and that's for the benefit off everybody else on that ship. Don't worry, PK, I realize you disagree. I just wanted to make sure that my main point didn't get lost in all this verbiage, much of which is, I am aware, my verbiage.
Oh, no problem. I understood what you were saying. Which is why I stuck in there the "Including Janeway and Chakotay" bit - including them in my definition of 'people'. And keep in mind - if they had been on the 3 hour tour, I'd fully agree with you. I just believe that they were in extraordinary circumstances which required some reassessment of the rules. So what? We disagree on this point. I mind that not a bit. I'm a mod of the Trek XI forum. As 'disagreements' go, this one is, like, ant hill sized. I'm tough. I can take disagreement. No worries here!
I have seen you in action on the Trek XI forum (I don't go there often, but I do stick my big toe in now and then, v-e-e-e-e-e-r-r-r-r-y cautiously), and you know, I had this feeling you didn't mind a little bit of disagreement. Heck, nobody's even said somebody else "sucked." How polite is that?