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Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot

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True- but he did step off the stage for a bit, which we could argue happened to Janeway. And he didn't come back for years, maybe in 6 or more years Janeway will come back in the books too. There are no plans to bring her back. I doubt this will be as much of a panic half a decade from now.

But as mentioned, writers can't write something that will appeal to everyone, its impossible. And frankly, what was Admiral Janeway going to do? I thought she missed the ball in some of the pre-Destiny books. By... a lot.
 
While "ordinary", unheroic death is indeed realistic in everday life, I like my fiction to portray death as important, meaningful and yes - heroic.

It's funny, I was just saying in another thread that I don't expect or ask for strict realism from Trek, given genre conventions. This is, I think, one point where I am also willing to give realism a pass. This isn't BSG, after all; Trek will never be (nor should it) gritty, and merely slaughtering characters does not edgy make.
I agree. BSG gave me everything I thought I wanted in Trek. But once I saw it play out, I felt it was too dark to be Trek. Trek is more Utopian and light hearted imo.
 
I think the folks at Pocket had a very poor situation to deal with:

  • Janeway being an Admiral at Starfleet Command
  • Voyager being a deep space scout/explorer vessel

On screen Janeway was split off from Voyager, so they really had a simple choice. Either take Janeway out of the Voyager books or take Voyager out of the Voyager books. The details really didn't matter, one was getting short-changed going forward from Star Trek: Nemesis.

Unless of course she did something illegal and then turned around to save the universe as we know it. Then she would be punished by being made a starship captain again...

Oh right they already did that.
 
maybe in 6 or more years Janeway will come back in the books too. There are no plans to bring her back. I doubt this will be as much of a panic half a decade from now.

If the death of Kathryn Janeway is unacceptable, then six years is unacceptable too. And while Pocket Books cannot think of a story line, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t one. Only they can’t think of one. I can think of several but most involve her not on a starship in a battle situation. Frankly I don’t think she or many of the Voyager people would even care to take up space exploration again. Which doesn’t mean that there are no stories to tell. If they can’t think of a use for her, don’t use her but don’t kill her either because the story needing her might just slap them in the face.

No the point is that some people thought she was expendable and now they are finding out she isn’t. People thought she had no fans and now they find out she has. They can try to spin this anyway they want but the truth is, killing Janeway was a bad decision and needs to be changed as quickly as possible.

As the potential consumer, Pocket Books owes us the carrot, not the other way around.

Brit
 
Frankly I don’t think she or many of the Voyager people would even care to take up space exploration again. Which doesn’t mean that there are no stories to tell.

Then what exactly is the point? If I'm picking up Star Trek books it's because they are Star Trek books. While the format is flexible from a storytelling perspective, I'm pretty sure I need space exploration to be part of it. I'm not interested in Janeway/Chakotay romance novels set on the high-seas.
 
"Two camps, one argument, round and round it goes"

"Is it going to stop, no one knows"

"For good or ill, Kathy is dead, drinking coffee and bigging it up with Q"

"Will she be back? No one knows."

"The possibilities are endless and un-told"

"What will happen? No one knows"

"Only time and the right story will tell"

"Until then, No one knows"





 
^ haha, that's great!

And I agree, it goes round and round... :rolleyes: Kinda endless thread, lol.
 
The thread has inspired me to write to Pocket, I have asked that not only should Janeway stay dead, I'd really like it if Neelix was killed - maybe eaten by some targs.

I'll let people know of the response I get.
 
Go right ahead.

You keep saying you're tired of this thread continuing, and yet you all keep posting in it. If you're so tired of it, why try to goad us into replying?
 
The thread has inspired me to write to Pocket, I have asked that not only should Janeway stay dead, I'd really like it if Neelix was killed - maybe eaten by some targs.

I'll let people know of the response I get.

Apparently you're under the mistaken impression that we care what you do. :p
 
Go right ahead.

You keep saying you're tired of this thread continuing, and yet you all keep posting in it. If you're so tired of it, why try to goad us into replying?

Who are you replying to good sir? Myself for a boredom induced poem (and BEFORE you think it's boredom of this thread; It's boredom in general.) or JoeZhang or are you just being like Father Jack and sitting up and shouting every once in while?
 
maybe in 6 or more years Janeway will come back in the books too. There are no plans to bring her back. I doubt this will be as much of a panic half a decade from now.

If the death of Kathryn Janeway is unacceptable, then six years is unacceptable too. And while Pocket Books cannot think of a story line, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t one. Only they can’t think of one. I can think of several but most involve her not on a starship in a battle situation. Frankly I don’t think she or many of the Voyager people would even care to take up space exploration again. Which doesn’t mean that there are no stories to tell. If they can’t think of a use for her, don’t use her but don’t kill her either because the story needing her might just slap them in the face.

No the point is that some people thought she was expendable and now they are finding out she isn’t. People thought she had no fans and now they find out she has. They can try to spin this anyway they want but the truth is, killing Janeway was a bad decision and needs to be changed as quickly as possible.

As the potential consumer, Pocket Books owes us the carrot, not the other way around.

Brit

Pocket can't give carrots to every person on the planet, they can just hope that their carrots appeal to either the majority, or enough to make the production of carrots worth while.

No one is saying that they couldn't have written Janeway as casting off her admiral duties and going to save ______ or using her admiralty to do ________ . And she was not specifically expendable. "No one is expendable." -Julian Bashir. How long have the Q been begging a human to go with them??

The DS9 fans made it alright with 6 years sans Sisko. Most fans liked him, he was a major character, it just made it neat that he came back with a ton of experiences he couldn't have gotten anywhere else. Janeway's actions pre-Destiny showed to me, that she needs that too. Why else would she do what she did? A bit short-sighted at best to me.

I don't see why you'd say the VGR crew wouldn't want to explore anymore- how stale of a life that would be! Its Star Trek- its a need that drives us. We can't move forward without learning. The crew and Janeway will carry one. And its impossible that Pocket assumed that Janeway, the Captain of Voyager, had no fans of the fans of VOY.
 
On screen Janeway was split off from Voyager, so they really had a simple choice. Either take Janeway out of the Voyager books or take Voyager out of the Voyager books. The details really didn't matter, one was getting short-changed going forward from Star Trek: Nemesis.

That carries the assumption that Voyager novels can only do one or the other. I have no problems envisioning a set of books with multiple storylines and multiple settings.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
Go right ahead.

You keep saying you're tired of this thread continuing, and yet you all keep posting in it. If you're so tired of it, why try to goad us into replying?

Who are you replying to good sir? Myself for a boredom induced poem (and BEFORE you think it's boredom of this thread; It's boredom in general.) or JoeZhang or are you just being like Father Jack and sitting up and shouting every once in while?

Actually I rather liked your poem. I was replying to JoeZhang.
 
Pocket can't give carrots to every person on the planet, they can just hope that their carrots appeal to either the majority, or enough to make the production of carrots worth while.

No one is saying that they couldn't have written Janeway as casting off her admiral duties and going to save ______ or using her admiralty to do ________ . And she was not specifically expendable.

Exactly. When Margaret and her writers were plotting the recent arc, I assume they realised they'd be pitching a Starfleet individual with a Borg representative and they considered a shortlist such as Picard as Locutus facing off against a new Borg Queen, Seven vs the Borg, Icheb vs the Borg, Janeway vs the Borg, etc, and if one character was going to be sacrifing everything to save humanity as we know it, that character was decided by the needs of the story, and how the event would continue to propel future stories.

It could easily have been Picard, but then Crusher would be a widow again, once more left to raise a child alone. It could easily have been Seven. Or Icheb. It could just as easily have been Janeway, especially considering her "Endgame" encounter with the Borg Queen.

Brit now says she'd have accepted a not-exploration storyline for Janeway. But would this be the focus of a Voyager Relaunch series? No, it sounds more like a one-off, perhaps a "Mosaic II" and, if it sold well, perhaps more books in that vein. (The first "Mosaic" sold extremely well.) But nothing that has happened so far precludes such a book being published.

The TOS "Crucible" series sold gangbusters, and there was very little outcry from readers that these three novels diverted from accepted recent book continuity. The biggest/only outcry came from Harlan Ellison and his supporters, wanting more money and respect for Harlan.

However, it concerns me (just a little) that Pocket could do a prescriptive not-exploration post-VOY TV series Janeway novel, dealing with Janeway's feelings for Chakotay, but because the author ends up giving Janeway a different hairstyle, or one last fling with Mark, or Janeway switches to drinking tea, or Chakotay gets offered a captaincy that takes him away from his planet-bound beloved, that one of these would be sufficient for Brit to say, "Nope, not carroty enough."

We can plot out our lives, but fate still plays its hand. I have no problem trusting authors to make what they feel are the best choices for their characters. I don't need a sticker on the cover to say, "This book has a guaranteed happy ending and no regulars die."
 
On screen Janeway was split off from Voyager, so they really had a simple choice. Either take Janeway out of the Voyager books or take Voyager out of the Voyager books. The details really didn't matter, one was getting short-changed going forward from Star Trek: Nemesis.

That carries the assumption that Voyager novels can only do one or the other. I have no problems envisioning a set of books with multiple storylines and multiple settings.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

But ones that never intertwine in any significant way (I hate when cross-overs are forced)? Are we really willing to have every Voyager novel split into two parts?

I really don't have a stake one way or the other. Janeway was annoying and Chakotay was cardboard. I would just like to see someone come up with a way to re-vitalize this particular corner of the Trek universe the way that Enterprise was.
 
On screen Janeway was split off from Voyager, so they really had a simple choice. Either take Janeway out of the Voyager books or take Voyager out of the Voyager books. The details really didn't matter, one was getting short-changed going forward from Star Trek: Nemesis.

That carries the assumption that Voyager novels can only do one or the other. I have no problems envisioning a set of books with multiple storylines and multiple settings.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

But ones that never intertwine in any significant way (I hate when cross-overs are forced)? Are we really willing to have every Voyager novel split into two parts?

I really don't have a stake one way or the other. Janeway was annoying and Chakotay was cardboard. I would just like to see someone come up with a way to re-vitalize this particular corner of the Trek universe the way that Enterprise was.

Hmmm, I think that's a matter of opinion.

ENT has yet to be 're-vitalized' in my eyes...i.e. we still have two characters--Travis and Hoshi--who aren't really given much to do in the books. (The novels should expand the characters, not just choice characters).

Moreover, we're talking about Geordi in the TNG novels; I'm sure there are other characters.
 
Go right ahead.

You keep saying you're tired of this thread continuing, and yet you all keep posting in it. If you're so tired of it, why try to goad us into replying?

Who are you replying to good sir? Myself for a boredom induced poem (and BEFORE you think it's boredom of this thread; It's boredom in general.) or JoeZhang or are you just being like Father Jack and sitting up and shouting every once in while?

Actually I rather liked your poem. I was replying to JoeZhang.

I'm not tired of this thread - I think it's as funny as fuck.
 
That carries the assumption that Voyager novels can only do one or the other. I have no problems envisioning a set of books with multiple storylines and multiple settings.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

But ones that never intertwine in any significant way (I hate when cross-overs are forced)? Are we really willing to have every Voyager novel split into two parts?

I really don't have a stake one way or the other. Janeway was annoying and Chakotay was cardboard. I would just like to see someone come up with a way to re-vitalize this particular corner of the Trek universe the way that Enterprise was.

Hmmm, I think that's a matter of opinion.

ENT has yet to be 're-vitalized' in my eyes...i.e. we still have two characters--Travis and Hoshi--who aren't really given much to do in the books. (The novels should expand the characters, not just choice characters).

Moreover, we're talking about Geordi in the TNG novels; I'm sure there are other characters.

The Enterprise novels have been interesting. Mayweather and Sato were nothing more than glorified stand-ins to begin with.

I'm not talking about TNG, I've decided it better to let that particular group ride off into the sunset.
 
But ones that never intertwine in any significant way (I hate when cross-overs are forced)? Are we really willing to have every Voyager novel split into two parts?

I really don't have a stake one way or the other. Janeway was annoying and Chakotay was cardboard. I would just like to see someone come up with a way to re-vitalize this particular corner of the Trek universe the way that Enterprise was.

Hmmm, I think that's a matter of opinion.

ENT has yet to be 're-vitalized' in my eyes...i.e. we still have two characters--Travis and Hoshi--who aren't really given much to do in the books. (The novels should expand the characters, not just choice characters).

Moreover, we're talking about Geordi in the TNG novels; I'm sure there are other characters.

The Enterprise novels have been interesting. Mayweather and Sato were nothing more than glorified stand-ins to begin with.

Each to his (or her) own opinion...;)

Everyone has characters they like or dislike. I personally didn't care for Trip being brought back from the dead(as I didn't particularly care that character to begin with)...although, that is something for another thread.

In relation to VOY, I'm of the 'wait and see' crowd; I'm looking forward to where Miss Beyer takes the series.
 
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