Latecomer To This: JANEWAY DIED?!?

[Sci]

I must also sadly state that the authors suggestion about reading this "last book" and the comment to my post (and my little joke to Thrawn) has only confirmed my opinion about "those in charge" and their attitude to the fans.

You know what? Her post was completely respectful to those who disagree with the decision to kill off Janeway. She even said, "If, on principle alone, you have no interest in Full Circle, because it does not scramble to undo what was done in Before Dishonor, but rather faces that tragedy squarely and allows those Kathryn loved to struggle in their own way to come to terms with this unthinkable loss, I also completely understand." Which is a very respectful thing to say.

You, on the other have, have been consistently rude to the authors and to your fellow posters. You have questioned whether or not other posters are true fans if they disagree with your opinion of the decision to kill Janeway. You have accused the authors of motiveless malice towards the fans.

So you shouldn't be surprised when they explain that they have no desire to talk to you. If you treat a man like a dog, you'll generally get bitten. This author didn't bite you -- she just refused to engage you. Don't act like this confirms that they think they're better than the fans -- it does not. It confirms that no one wants to talk to you because you treat other people like shit for no damn good reason (in addition to out and out lying about other people's statements and motives).

 

[Tachyon]

And just tell me why a person that wants to read books about Janeway is going have any satisfaction from the Last Book? Get real.

Did Hercule Poiroit fans boycott Agatha Christie's final Poirot novel, "Curtain!", which includes his demise? Nope. I seem to remember it creating a lot of excitement when it was released.

Maybe it was time for Hercule Poirot to go. But obviously this is not the case for Janeway fans. There is nothing exciting about her death for those who were still expecting more stories of her.

 

[Lynx]

And just tell me why a person that wants to read books about Janeway is going have any satisfaction from the Last Book? Get real.

Did Hercule Poiroit fans boycott Agatha Christie's final Poirot novel, "Curtain!", which includes his demise? Nope. I seem to remember it creating a lot of excitement when it was released.

I seem to recall great excitement about "the Last" Hitchhikers' and Dirk Gently books. Each time there was "a Last Book" - even after Dougles Adams died, leaving one unfinished.

I also recall the proposed fan boycott of ST II if Spock died, but that was a fizzer when the boycotters went to see the movie anyway, even before they knew that ST III was a certainty and that Spock would, indeed, return from the grave.

As for killed off characters, didn't Sir Arthur Conan Doyle kill off Sherlock Holmes in some book?

And didn't protests from the fans make him bring back Holmes to life?

I think that the authors and those in charge of PocketBooks have something to learn from this British author and gentleman.

 

[Ktrek]

I must also sadly state that the authors suggestion about reading this "last book" and the comment to my post (and my little joke to Thrawn) has only confirmed my opinion about "those in charge" and their attitude to the fans.

Lynx - I don't think Kirsten saw your little smiley because I did not take it as a joke either upon first reading (I just went back to look at your post again to see if I missed something). And there you go making personal attacks again! Kirsten did not attack you but responded to what she felt was another snarky remark. She is a professional writer who had a job to do and she has done it and soon her book will be released. She owes you nothing nor any of the readers for that matter. If you don't want to read her book fine. It's no skin off of anyone's teeth. The only one you're hurting is yourself, not any of us, or the writers.

I think it's a little arrogant to think that 5 or 6 Janeway fans coming in here declaring they will never buy another Star Trek book really means anything to Pocket Books. As far as I know their editors do not even come here anymore since Marco left. Yes..there are authors who come here but all the ones who have responded to you you have just ignored what they had to say about the process.

Kirsten Beyer was given an assignment to write the next two books and if they sell well then there will likely be more Voyager books, and someday those books may even bring Janeway back, but it would be wrong for them to contrive some story to fit Janeway into the latest books just to appease a few loud and noisy fans. I'm sure they would find it nothing more than a minor irritation if they even knew it existed.

If you're so upset take your gripe to the people who can change it. Write to Pocket Books, write the editor, write Paula Block at CBS/Paramount. Their the ones you need to take your beef up with not us fans on the board who buy the books!

Kevin

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think that the authors and those in charge of PocketBooks have something to learn from this British author and gentleman.

As they've already done with Kirk, Sisko and Trip. Janeway's corpse isn't even cold yet.

 

[Lynx]

I must also sadly state that the authors suggestion about reading this "last book" and the comment to my post (and my little joke to Thrawn) has only confirmed my opinion about "those in charge" and their attitude to the fans.

You know what? Her post was completely respectful to those who disagree with the decision to kill off Janeway. She even said, "If, on principle alone, you have no interest in Full Circle, because it does not scramble to undo what was done in Before Dishonor, but rather faces that tragedy squarely and allows those Kathryn loved to struggle in their own way to come to terms with this unthinkable loss, I also completely understand." Which is a very respectful thing to say.

You, on the other have, have been consistently rude to the authors and to your fellow posters. You have questioned whether or not other posters are true fans if they disagree with your opinion of the decision to kill Janeway. You have accused the authors of motiveless malice towards the fans.

So you shouldn't be surprised when they explain that they have no desire to talk to you. If you treat a man like a dog, you'll generally get bitten. This author didn't bite you -- she just refused to engage you. Don't act like this confirms that they think they're better than the fans -- it does not. It confirms that no one wants to talk to you because you treat other people like shit for no damn good reason (in addition to out and out lying about other people's statements and motives).

Well, I did remove that statement after re-considering what I had written, I realized that it was a bit over the top so there's nothing to debate about in that case. And that was before I did see this post from you.

But when you accuse me for "treating people like s**t and for lying, then you are a liar because you just have to look at that closed thread about this subject to see that I wasn't the one who did start coming up with personal.

As for "lying", I don't think there is a "lie" that Janeway has been killed off, is it?

 

[Lynx]

I must also sadly state that the authors suggestion about reading this "last book" and the comment to my post (and my little joke to Thrawn) has only confirmed my opinion about "those in charge" and their attitude to the fans.

Lynx - I don't think Kirsten saw your little smiley because I did not take it as a joke either upon first reading (I just went back to look at your post again to see if I missed something). And there you go making personal attacks again! Kirsten did not attack you but responded to what she felt was another snarky remark. She is a professional writer who had a job to do and she has done it and soon her book will be released. She owes you nothing nor any of the readers for that matter. If you don't want to read her book fine. It's no skin off of anyone's teeth. The only one you're hurting is yourself, not any of us, or the writers.

I think it's a little arrogant to think that 5 or 6 Janeway fans coming in here declaring they will never buy another Star Trek book really means anything to Pocket Books. As far as I know their editors do not even come here anymore since Marco left. Yes..there are authors who come here but all the ones who have responded to you you have just ignored what they had to say about the process.

Kirsten Beyer was given an assignment to write the next two books and if they sell well than there will likely be more Voyager books, and someday those books may even bring Janeway back, but it would be wrong for them to contrive some story to fit Janeway into the latest books just to appease a few loud and noisy fans. I'm sure they would find it nothing more than a minor irritation if they even knew it existed.

If you're so upset take your gripe to the people who can change it. Write to Pocket Books, write the editor, write Paula Block at CBS/Paramount. Their the ones you need to take your beef up with not us fans on the board who buy the books!

Kevin

As you can see, I did remove the comment I wrote since I actually did find it "over the top". Unfortunately, I wasn't fast enough.

As for hurting myself, I don't think that I'm hurting myself if I don't read the book, I guess that it would be more hurting to me if I did read it.

Remember that I did by a book in the series "Strange New Worlds" where some author did kill off Kes in a lousy story. Now that was hurting and I had to sell the book on Ebay because I couldn't stand seeing it.

As for writing to certain hotshots at PocketBooks and CBS/Paramount, well there were many of us who did it after Kes was scrapped in season 4 of Voyager and the reply we got from those in charge was "Fury" (talk about character destruction and giving the finger to the fans!). Some of us tried too write to them even after "Fury" but with no acceptable result and actually no decent replies at all. So please forgive me if I don't have such high expectations and if my opinion about "people in charge" is a bit.............negative, to say the least.

 

[Thrawn]

Lynx - what new or different information or ideas do you feel you've added to the discussion in the last, oh let's say three days?

 

[Lynx]

Lynx - what new or different information or ideas do you feel you've added to the discussion in the last, oh let's say three days?

As many as you have.

I would actually be happy if we could avoid personal attacks in this thread and concentrate on the more essential things.

 

[JoeZhang]

I would actually be happy if we could avoid personal attacks in this thread and concentrate on the more essential things.

I've largely stayed out of this conversation but... Are you taking the piss? Your frankly odd and obsessive behaviour coupled with your extreme rudeness to authors you've never meet has been breath-taking to observe.

I couldn't give a shit about Janeway but I'm now tempted to write to pocket books and tell them I'll boycott the books unless they keep her dead.

 

[Lynx]

I would actually be happy if we could avoid personal attacks in this thread and concentrate on the more essential things.

I've largely stayed out of this conversation but... Are you taking the piss? Your frankly odd and obsessive behaviour coupled with your extreme rudeness to authors you've never meet has been breath-taking to observe.

I couldn't give a shit about Janeway but I'm now tempted to write to pocket books and tell them I'll boycott the books unless they keep her dead.

If I'm "rude", I'm definitely not alone.

And calling my comments "extreme rudeness" is exaggerated. The worst examples of "extreme rudeness" have been the personal attacks on me for criticizing a controversial (and in my opinion, a very bad) decision.

 

[BillJ]

I don't get this. People can whine and moan over and over again how the books suck because Janeway is dead, the writers are misogynist hacks, etc but if someone goes to the Voyager forum and says they don't like Voyager that are slapped down for trolling.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2581057&postcount=21

What gives? How is that more trolling than what we're seeing here?

Funny thing... they're talking about obtaining Voyager 'by other means' in the same thread and the moderator said nothing.

 

[Brit]

I don't get this. People can whine and moan over and over again how the books suck because Janeway is dead, the writers are misogynist hacks, etc but if someone goes to the Voyager forum and says they don't like Voyager that are slapped down for trolling.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2581057&postcount=21

What gives? How is that more trolling than what we're seeing here?

Funny thing... they're talking about obtaining Voyager 'by other means' in the same thread and the moderator said nothing.

And this post is in it's own way trolling too. The Voyager Fourm is also supposed to be for all Voyager fans, not about why Janeway sucked as a captain. How she should have been replaced with Ransom, or the ever popular Suder is a wonderful character and should have been a regular.

Brit

 

[BillJ]

I don't get this. People can whine and moan over and over again how the books suck because Janeway is dead, the writers are misogynist hacks, etc but if someone goes to the Voyager forum and says they don't like Voyager that are slapped down for trolling.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2581057&postcount=21

What gives? How is that more trolling than what we're seeing here?

Funny thing... they're talking about obtaining Voyager 'by other means' in the same thread and the moderator said nothing.

And this post is in it's own way trolling too. The Voyager Fourm is also supposed to be for all Voyager fans, not about why Janeway sucked as a captain. How she should have been replaced with Ransom, or the ever popular Suder is a wonderful character and should have been a regular.

Brit

Funny. I thought a forum was a way for people to exchange differing ideas. Not for every one to slap each other on the ass and tell each other how great they are.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The Voyager Fourm is also supposed to be for all Voyager fans, not about why Janeway sucked as a captain. How she should have been replaced with Ransom, or the ever popular Suder is a wonderful character and should have been a regular.

No! Please don't tell me that, over in the VOY forum, new posters are cut off from contributing opinions unless they agree that everything was peachy keen about the show?

 

[Trek]

I have to say, after following through both this thread and the previous one, that the only effect this discussion had on me is to peek my interest in Full Circle.

Well that and a good laugh at the absurdity on display.

 

[Tay]

But who is it that you want to hear your views? As I've said before you're barking up the wrong tree. If you feel so strongly about it write Pocket Books. Write Paula Block at CBS/Paramount but don't harass the rest of us. We don't deserve to be treated this way. The way you come across is like militant fundamentalists trying to convert the world to your religious worldview, and we don't happen to hold the same view. So why not find a nice group of Voyager fans who are likeminded and get together and discuss things with them?

And in making the comparison to religious persons I don't mean to belittle people of faith either because I am one but I don't go around making trouble and making my viewpoints known. It's one thing to come here and start a discussion about why Janeway should not have been killed but a total other thing to try and militantly change common opinion. We don't want to be converted.

And as for your statement about reading the books how long has it been and what was the last book you have read? If it was longer than 5 years ago Star Trek books are a different breed of storytelling these days. So, to make comparisons on past out-dated experiences may not be valid because Star Trek has moved on.

Kevin

In your single post you've accused me of being like a militant fundamentalists, a trouble maker and a troll. I wondered how long it would take before one of you decided that I needed to be called one of these.

First of all, if by posting my thoughts on this is militant, which I don't see. I'm stating my feelings and thoughts on this. Your post was a direct attack on me. You don't have to agree with me, you don't even have to respond.

I don't see Janeway as the new Messiah. She's not my religious deity as you seem to believe. I simple love her character, I love all of the Voyager characters. I don't want to see any of them dead. I really hoping that the comment I saw in a another thread about B'Elanna and Miral being on the list of missing, has a happy ending. I wouldn't want them to die either.

I've been very careful on how I post to avoid insulting anyone. Most of the other posters that have responded to me have been wonderful as well. They respected that I had a right to express my opinion without lashing out at me for doing so.

Did I chose to call you all of the other things that were floating around in the various threads about people that support the 'kill Janeway' plot? No, I chose to respect that you had a right to your opinion, even if it veered from mine.

In regards to your comment, "you don't deserve to be treated this way."; why do you feel that I deserve to be treated as troll for coming to this community to express my POV?

Just because I'm a new member to the board and mostly lurk around the various threads, does not give you the right to treat me as a second rate member to this community.

Some members, not all, treat the Voyager fans horribly. Mocking us for finding enjoyment, in their opinion, the 'weakest' of the Trek series. I don't deny that the series had issues at times but I still support it. You can chose to deny it but all the various posts show the true contempt that some of you have. Again, I'm not accusing everyone of this, just some. I don't go into the other categories (TNG, TOS, DS9, etc) just to insult the people posting there but that's another issue, isn't?

I posted here about how much I didn't enjoy or agree with the decision to kill off a main character.

 

[Tachyon]

Good response, Tay. No one is forcing anyone to follow this thread. If Voyager fans are upset that one of the most important characters for them has been killed in the books, it should not be a banned topic to discuss. As long as it is being done in a civil way.

 

[elaithin]

Ah, there's the problem, though, isn't it? Certain personalities seem to have a... tenuous grip on reality, and that makes keeping the tone respectful a bit difficult.

 

[Tay]

Ah, there's the problem, though, isn't it? Certain personalities seem to have a... tenuous grip on reality, and that makes keeping the tone respectful a bit difficult.

I have to disagree. If our posts are respectful of each others POV, ideally the responses made to that post, should follow suit. Even if you question our 'tenuous grip on reality'.