If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done differently?

[kent]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

That may be true. I personally think considering that the fans of trek are generally attracted to trek because of its message of peace and equality they would in general and in the long run fine with it. The 90's, at least from my perspective as a gay, was that cusp where people were more open to being gay, hence Will and Grace, too wong foo, and my so called life (i know that show was cancelled but even I thought it was boring.)

and I know homosexuality exists in star trek and it's no big. BUT, another purpose of trek was to tell "morality plays" as Roddenberry put it in a way that wouldn't deeply offend the public in a sci-fi setting that sort of masks what the show's message was really about. In reality, being gay was an issue and still is, so in my opinion it's unfair to shy away from that social message when that is what the show was originally intended for.

Yeah it would've been risque, but so was the original series. It was supposed to be, to teach tolerance and equality. That's why I would've included gay characters.

I agree the subject would have to be handled with care. I would be to biased to take over that issue I would leave it to a group of straight and gay people who didn't care as passionately as I did.

BUT i could have, and should've, been done. IF NOT Voyager, then by the time Enterprise rolled around. But honestly, i think at that point it would've made star trek look like it was merely jumping on the bandwagon. It should have been the leader.

I don't just care cause' i'm a gay, even though that's a part of it. I care because i love star trek, and I hate to see its message marred because of social views. that was not what it was intended for. the 90's was more open and they could've gotten away with it if it was done right.

 

[Brit]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Ok I am going to disagree with the Lon Suder stuff. The man was psycho, and he killed people apparently randomly, and while it is true that Tuvok helped him, it's also true or at least canon that Chakotay didn't trust him. I certainly wouldn't have turned my back on him at all.

Suder is the villain that redeemed himself by doing a heroic thing, in any other context you diminish the character and his redemption.

Brit

 

[Praetor]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

That may be true. I personally think considering that the fans of trek are generally attracted to trek because of its message of peace and equality they would in general and in the long run fine with it. The 90's, at least from my perspective as a gay, was that cusp where people were more open to being gay, hence Will and Grace, too wong foo, and my so called life (i know that show was cancelled but even I thought it was boring.)

and I know homosexuality exists in star trek and it's no big. BUT, another purpose of trek was to tell "morality plays" as Roddenberry put it in a way that wouldn't deeply offend the public in a sci-fi setting that sort of masks what the show's message was really about. In reality, being gay was an issue and still is, so in my opinion it's unfair to shy away from that social message when that is what the show was originally intended for.

Yeah it would've been risque, but so was the original series. It was supposed to be, to teach tolerance and equality. That's why I would've included gay characters.

I agree the subject would have to be handled with care. I would be to biased to take over that issue I would leave it to a group of straight and gay people who didn't care as passionately as I did.

BUT i could have, and should've, been done. IF NOT Voyager, then by the time Enterprise rolled around. But honestly, i think at that point it would've made star trek look like it was merely jumping on the bandwagon. It should have been the leader.

I don't just care cause' i'm a gay, even though that's a part of it. I care because i love star trek, and I hate to see its message marred because of social views. that was not what it was intended for. the 90's was more open and they could've gotten away with it if it was done right.

Agreed.

Remember when Malcolm Reed was 'supposed' to be gay? Yeah, that didn't happen. I like your idea of having Paris be bisexual and dealing with that intrigue.

 

[kent]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Oh i can't take credit for paris being gay. that was member DGCATANISIRI. he/she suggested that and quite frankly it's a wonderful idea.

but thank you for backing me up BTW. I was beginning to feel more or less alone in this topic save a few darling people willing to speak up. You included of course.

 

[Brit]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Kent, you know even in the female produced M/M slash fic, Tom is the gay one. There may be different partners but it is always Tom.

That being said, this old lady is going to bed, thanks for a lively conversation. Now I will leave you with a thought LOL

Did you know that Trek is the second oldest Fan Fiction producing fandom? Now guess what the frist one was. If you interested I'll tell you in the morning.

Brit

 

[FalTorPan]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

There's a lot that I would have done differently, since I am not a fan of the series, but one thing that comes to mind is making Kes' life span short enough so that she dies of natural causes midstream in the series. I wouldn't want this out of any sort of malice toward the character -- I'd do this so that we can witness some intelligent sci-fi in the series. It would be fascinating to watch a humanoid character go through the majority of a life cycle in four or five seasons of a TV series, as her friends age human-style. To make something like this really work, Kes would have to have been a more prominent character; otherwise, this would be little more than a "how old is she this week" gimmick.

 

[kent]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Kent, you know even in the female produced M/M slash fic, Tom is the gay one. There may be different partners but it is always Tom.

That being said, this old lady is going to bed, thanks for a lively conversation. Now I will leave you with a thought LOL

Did you know that Trek is the second oldest Fan Fiction producing fandom? Now guess what the frist one was. If you interested I'll tell you in the morning.

Brit

I would guess....and mind you i don't know much about older sci fi....but the most intriguing continuation i can think of is Lost in Space. I'm still waiting on a sequel to the one matt leblanc (SO CUTE, and from my hometown.) was in.

And it's interesting tom is always the gay one.....I wonder what that says about gay culter and sluttiness...............that's another discussion on social economics though LOL.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Oh i can't take credit for paris being gay. that was member DGCATANISIRI. he/she suggested that and quite frankly it's a wonderful idea.

The 'he' pronoun would be correct.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Those are some nice ideas, bullethead, but I feel like some are a little too close to BSG (perhaps purposefully?)

I think Chakotay should eventually get an eyepatch. But over the course of the show, four non-Starfleet/Maquis aliens should be spies on Voyager. One by one, the crew finds out their identities, but the clincher is that there's actually a fifth alien. Maybe you could call him... the Final Kazon.

(ba dam TSS)

 

[Brit]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Did you know that Trek is the second oldest Fan Fiction producing fandom? Now guess what the frist one was. If you interested I'll tell you in the morning.

I would guess....and mind you i don't know much about older sci fi....but the most intriguing continuation i can think of is Lost in Space. I'm still waiting on a sequel to the one matt leblanc (SO CUTE, and from my hometown.) was in.

You have the general time frame right, just need to go a bit earlier. The oldest fan fiction producing fandom is "The Man From Uncle". The sad thing is that none of it survives, it was a very small, close knit group that only shared their fic with each other.

And by the way keep the eyepatch off Chakotay, because in my eyes, the sexiest guys are Spock, Picard, Worf, and CHAKOTAY lol, and I don't want anything obstructing the view. I will in turn keep the eyepatch off of Seven.

You guys have a lot of ideas, some IMHO good and some bad, has it occurred to any of you to "write" them, kick them around, see if they work, because this is how any work of fiction starts. It always begins with the thought "what if".

Brit

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

- First two seasons of Voyager would deal with their increasing hostile encounters with the Kazon who are more pirates than anything else. Also especially during the first season I would have more strife between the Starfleet and Maquis crew members like the original bible intended. We would have an episode where Tuvok creates a holo training program to deal with a potential Maquis uprising (like the season seven episode that deals with this that Seska stumbles over). I like the idea of internal strife that threatens their mission of returning home and giving the newly promoted Captain Janeway something to struggle with on her first assignment as CO. Her and Chakotay have philosophical disagreements with each other all the time but eventually as they ferret out a traitor in their midst they come to a mutual understanding and later on the friendship they enjoy in the series proper. Seska still is the traitor but I would drop the Cardassian in disguise subplot and have her be a disgruntled Bajoran who has never gotten over her peoples treatment during the occupation and sees the crew's constant encounters with the Kazon as something similar.

-Kes becomes a confidant and protege of Tuvok and she also assists the Doctor who is adjusting to being online for so long. Kes is also taken under Captain Janeway's wing, as Kathryn seeks Chakotay's sage advice, Chakotay is a proper Native American and more is explored about his people. It turns out that his village was one of the ones that was transplanted by the Preservers long ago and so that is why he was born on another planet. He tells Janeway stories about his people's myths concerning the Preservers and that they're one of the reasons why he was inspired to join Starfleet.

-Kes remains onboard Voyager and plays a crucial role in helping them defeat the Borg...which would be used only once or twice, not a dozen. No Seven of Nine as much as I like her character. I like the idea of Kes becoming the ship's counsellor as a poster suggested in a earlier page.

-Much like in the series proper, Neelix feels a sense of uselessness when Voyager clears the region of space that the Kazon control. Never venturing far from Kazon space he can no longer advise Captain Janeway with certainty of what they might encounter and we start encounter all the familar Voyager villans.

-Harry receives a promotion to Lt. Jg in season four and then to full LT in the final season...Harry is our POV character through much of the series. There are episodes that focus on him and his desire to return home. In the first couple of seasons Harry is almost desperate to return home and starts experimenting with transwarp theory but nothing really comes of it. As he starts mingling with the crew and they get over the strife with the Maquis and become closer he like our Harry starts to accept their long journey home as a blessing in disguise and still uses his famous quote in the series about the journey...etc.

That's about all I have so far, pretty much doing this on a whim, have nothing written down, just random thoughts that I've had over the years.

 

[Brit]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

That's about all I have so far, pretty much doing this on a whim, have nothing written down, just random thoughts that I've had over the years.

Then just try it, and what you will find is that you don't like writing (in which case nothing is lost) or you will find that you do like it and the fic readers will have more fic to choose from. It's kind of a no lose situation.

Also, are any of you into the roll playing games? I'm not particulary but I have friends that are. That's also a good situation to try out your ideas.

Brit

 

[Anwar]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Hey Praetor, glad you remember by own revision of Voyager. I actually got it done, it's lower on the forum.

 

[DarKush]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

If I had my druthers....

Cast

Elizabeth Shelby (TNG "Best of Both Worlds") would've been Voyager's captain. I thought the character could've had an interesting arc. In BOBW she was a young, ambitious hotshot, very career oriented. It would be interesting to see what became of her ambition, how would she cope if she was thrown across the galaxy and promotions and career advancement didn't mean so much any more. Also, I don't think she was the greatest people person, so it might be something she would have to learn as well. She also would have to struggle with which Fed values to keep and which to jettison as she tried to make it back home. I also thought Shelby encountering the Borg would have greater resonance due to BOBW.

Ro Laren. I would've had her be the Maquis leader. If only for the pilot, though I would prefer she stayed on. Yes, having Ro and Shelby heading VOY would have echoes of TNG, but VOY tried to be TNG-lite anyway, with far less interesting leads.

Chakotay. If I couldn't keep Ro, I would move Chakotay up. I agree with many of you that they should've given him a distinct culture, but Trek has done that in the past with Uhura and Sulu. Chakotay would've been a harder, darker person, committed to the Maquis cause. He wouldn't have rolled over so easy, and he would've opposed Shelby more-particularly early on. She would have to prove herself to him. Chakotay would be involved with Seska, and he would be the father of her child. Chakotay comes to serve as the sounding board for a lot of Maquis concerns, and he also is instrumental in helping Shelby think outside the box.

Tuvok. (a) I would be leaning toward making him a Maquis, because it would be more interesting to see a Vulcan logically go against the Federation. I would largely keep his backstory intact, serving with Sulu, etc. But obviously he won't have a relationship with Shelby. If he was Maquis, he would be the Security Officer.

(b) On the other hand, if I kept him like he was, I would have made Tuvok the XO. It made more sense for him to be XO. Chakotay would've been Tac/Security Officer.

Torres. I would've made her an Orion/human hybrid. I think the Klingons have been overdone, and it was time to explore another classic Trek race. She wouldn't have been Maquis, she would've been Starfleet. She feels she has to overcome the animal woman stereotype, but at the same time clamp down on her temper and aggression. Shelby sees something of herself in the smart, ambitious, anal woman. Torres would start as an assistant engineer and assume the position.

Seska. She would become Torres assistant. There would be a lot of tension and head butting between the two, but eventually they might come to mutually respect each other, which would make Seska's betrayal all that much more heartbreaking for Torres. Wouldn't change much about Seska, except having her and Chakotay involved still when the series started. She would remain a deep cover Obsidian Order operative.

Locarno. Would change Paris to Locarno. He's been seeking redemption since the Academy tragedy, and Starfleet Intelligence enlists him to infiltrate the Maquis. Chakotay is stung by his betrayal and vows to make him pay. Locarno is roguish, a womanizer, and still battling many demons. Plus, his time with the Maquis left him feeling ambivalent about betraying them.

Kim. Would change him to a Cardassian. He was raised on Earth or Vulcan, the son of Cardassian diplomats, teachers, artists, or something like that. Kim would be the first Cardassian in Starfleet, and he has received jeers from both Cardassians and Starfleeters. He maintains an optimistic attitude as best he can. The Maquis onboard VOY really detest him, and he struggles to fit in and wonders if he's made the right choice. His struggles remind Tuvok of his own early Starfleet career. Locarno comes to see him as pure and optimistic, clean in a way he can never be or ever was, and they become friends. Seska can't stand him. Everyone thinks its because of the Bajoran Occupation, but its really because she sees him and his parents as traitors to the Union.

The Doctor. Keep him the way he was.

Suder. Starts out as a member of security force. One of the Maquis. He's a background character until the murders start happening. I would've kept him on the show longer, as a kind of Hannibal Lecter ("Silence of the Lambs") type character.

Kes. If I kept Kes, I would make her a member of the Trabe. She might've been captured by a group of Kazon and was being held for ransom.

Neelix. Would be her manservant. He's an explorer, cook, trader, etc. Brings a lot of skills. He's also can be feral. And he's in love with Kes. He becomes jealous when Locarno makes a move on her and he might attack him.

Seven. I would have her slowly lose her nightmarish Borg appearance, a way to physically show how she was regaining her humanity. Seven would help to steady Shelby, to help her remember to cherish her own humanity,which she had begun to lose the deeper she ventured into the Delta Quadrant. She would eventually have a relationship with my version of Kim.

I would make Kes, Neelix, Suder, Seska, and Seven short term characters that roughly lasted about a season or two. Not sure which members of the main cast I would shake up. But there would be promotions, demotions, etc.

Also, I would've kept the Maquis out of Starfleet uniforms as long as possible. Some would put them on eventually, but others never would.

 

[stj]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

A different perspective here---To start off with, I would have changed the problem with the Ocampans' planet. Every word about no water was offensively stupid.

I would have dropped all the nonsense about the Maquis, and the idiotic Badlands, too. I would have enabled our characters to be more sanguine about the journey home possibly taking as much as seventy years by frankly admitting that humans live longer in the twenty third century.

I would have dropped all the drivel about lack of resources. With replicators, either they are living comfortably or they end up dying quickly. There's no inbetween. Those wrecks in Equinox and Year of Hell are ridiculous. Nobody could survive in junk like that.

I would have made Paris either the bad boy/screwup who actually did bad things/screwed up, or the Golden Boy, hotshot and brainiac with the common touch, an Admiral's son to the manor born. But I wouldn't have made him both at once. Sorry, folks, I still think Paris was a dreadfully stupid character. Since he was meant to be a star of the show, this was a major flaw in the show.

Speaking of major flaws, I would have either had Torres just be a (human) bitch, or she would have been a Klingon/human hybrid who disliked her weak (and dishonorable) father for making her weak, with his puniness genes. And resenting her mother for (lovelessly) marrying a human just for advancement in her scientific career. Yes, the Klingon half would be the smart half in my Voyager.

I love Jennifer Lien, but there's not much to do with Kes, who is something of a Mary Sue. I can't figure out why she would go marching off to Earth, 70 000 light years from home. Neelix I would give the goal of reaching the faraway colony of refugees from his conquered home planet, though. Can't do without Neelix.

I would have been pleased to keep Seven, except make her more consistent in her attitudes toward the Collective. Her pride in her Borg capacities would have been riddled with self doubt about her new human weakness. Guilt would not have been one of her problems!

Janeway should have been shown as reciprocating Kim's filial affection, treating him as a surrogate son. With the advent of Seven, the undercurrent of "sibling rivalry" should have been present.

 

[kent]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

And by the way keep the eyepatch off Chakotay, because in my eyes, the sexiest guys are Spock, Picard, Worf, and CHAKOTAY lol, and I don't want anything obstructing the view. I will in turn keep the eyepatch off of Seven.


Brit[/quote]



Hmm well I'd agree with you on Spock and Picard (i've had a crush on picard since i was little.), but definately not worf and chakotay. On DS9 it was....actually now that i think about it that would definately be the guy who played dukat's 1st officer who eventually led the resistence on Cardassia. Something about his arrogance and pigness...lol. Then DEFINATELY Tom Paris. Ever since his stint as Nick Locarno, there is something about him...oh yeah the arrogance and ego. LOL. I'm such a fool.

Maybe that's why I'd want him to be the Bi one...lol.

 

[Praetor]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

If I had my druthers....

Cast

Elizabeth Shelby (TNG "Best of Both Worlds") would've been Voyager's captain. I thought the character could've had an interesting arc. In BOBW she was a young, ambitious hotshot, very career oriented. It would be interesting to see what became of her ambition, how would she cope if she was thrown across the galaxy and promotions and career advancement didn't mean so much any more. Also, I don't think she was the greatest people person, so it might be something she would have to learn as well. She also would have to struggle with which Fed values to keep and which to jettison as she tried to make it back home. I also thought Shelby encountering the Borg would have greater resonance due to BOBW.

Ro Laren. I would've had her be the Maquis leader. If only for the pilot, though I would prefer she stayed on. Yes, having Ro and Shelby heading VOY would have echoes of TNG, but VOY tried to be TNG-lite anyway, with far less interesting leads.

These would have been excellent in terms of continuity and in terms of them trying to echo TNG. I think the one holdup would have been getting the actresses to return. I think Elizabeth Dennehy would have been the easier one to get back, unless she had felt screwed by TNG when what she thought was going to become a regular part evaporated, but somehow I doubt it. I'm not sure at what stage Michelle Forbes was at with her career at this point, but it's possible you could have gotten her too. Also, it's a bold choice to have both leaders be women, one that I agree with.

Chakotay. If I couldn't keep Ro, I would move Chakotay up. I agree with many of you that they should've given him a distinct culture, but Trek has done that in the past with Uhura and Sulu. Chakotay would've been a harder, darker person, committed to the Maquis cause. He wouldn't have rolled over so easy, and he would've opposed Shelby more-particularly early on. She would have to prove herself to him. Chakotay would be involved with Seska, and he would be the father of her child. Chakotay comes to serve as the sounding board for a lot of Maquis concerns, and he also is instrumental in helping Shelby think outside the box.

Tuvok. (a) I would be leaning toward making him a Maquis, because it would be more interesting to see a Vulcan logically go against the Federation. I would largely keep his backstory intact, serving with Sulu, etc. But obviously he won't have a relationship with Shelby. If he was Maquis, he would be the Security Officer.

(b) On the other hand, if I kept him like he was, I would have made Tuvok the XO. It made more sense for him to be XO. Chakotay would've been Tac/Security Officer.

Torres. I would've made her an Orion/human hybrid. I think the Klingons have been overdone, and it was time to explore another classic Trek race. She wouldn't have been Maquis, she would've been Starfleet. She feels she has to overcome the animal woman stereotype, but at the same time clamp down on her temper and aggression. Shelby sees something of herself in the smart, ambitious, anal woman. Torres would start as an assistant engineer and assume the position.

These are excellent suggestions, particularly the Orion one for Torres. It's true that Klingon did seem the easy way out.

Seska. She would become Torres assistant. There would be a lot of tension and head butting between the two, but eventually they might come to mutually respect each other, which would make Seska's betrayal all that much more heartbreaking for Torres. Wouldn't change much about Seska, except having her and Chakotay involved still when the series started. She would remain a deep cover Obsidian Order operative.

Locarno. Would change Paris to Locarno. He's been seeking redemption since the Academy tragedy, and Starfleet Intelligence enlists him to infiltrate the Maquis. Chakotay is stung by his betrayal and vows to make him pay. Locarno is roguish, a womanizer, and still battling many demons. Plus, his time with the Maquis left him feeling ambivalent about betraying them.

Kim. Would change him to a Cardassian. He was raised on Earth or Vulcan, the son of Cardassian diplomats, teachers, artists, or something like that. Kim would be the first Cardassian in Starfleet, and he has received jeers from both Cardassians and Starfleeters. He maintains an optimistic attitude as best he can. The Maquis onboard VOY really detest him, and he struggles to fit in and wonders if he's made the right choice. His struggles remind Tuvok of his own early Starfleet career. Locarno comes to see him as pure and optimistic, clean in a way he can never be or ever was, and they become friends. Seska can't stand him. Everyone thinks its because of the Bajoran Occupation, but its really because she sees him and his parents as traitors to the Union.

Now that's really clever.

The Doctor. Keep him the way he was.

Suder. Starts out as a member of security force. One of the Maquis. He's a background character until the murders start happening. I would've kept him on the show longer, as a kind of Hannibal Lecter ("Silence of the Lambs") type character.

Kes. If I kept Kes, I would make her a member of the Trabe. She might've been captured by a group of Kazon and was being held for ransom.

Neelix. Would be her manservant. He's an explorer, cook, trader, etc. Brings a lot of skills. He's also can be feral. And he's in love with Kes. He becomes jealous when Locarno makes a move on her and he might attack him.

Seven. I would have her slowly lose her nightmarish Borg appearance, a way to physically show how she was regaining her humanity. Seven would help to steady Shelby, to help her remember to cherish her own humanity,which she had begun to lose the deeper she ventured into the Delta Quadrant. She would eventually have a relationship with my version of Kim.

I would make Kes, Neelix, Suder, Seska, and Seven short term characters that roughly lasted about a season or two. Not sure which members of the main cast I would shake up. But there would be promotions, demotions, etc.

Also, I would've kept the Maquis out of Starfleet uniforms as long as possible. Some would put them on eventually, but others never would.

All of these are really excellent suggestions that help highlight the various missed opportunities of the show.

Then DEFINATELY Tom Paris. Ever since his stint as Nick Locarno, there is something about him...oh yeah the arrogance and ego. LOL. I'm such a fool.

Maybe that's why I'd want him to be the Bi one...lol.

I think me too. Did you ever see him in the 'Masters of the Universe' movie?

 

[kent]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

OMG no....Now i SO WANT TO. I'm going to youtube immediately. I hope he gets a little lotta shirtless. lol.

here's a question then...would you prefer thinner younger paris, or the more beefy paris...not the bloated paris twoards the end of the series, the beefy one of season 5ish.

 

[Praetor]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Well, word of warning: mullet

And, I think season five Paris.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Heaven forbid they show an adult female captain actually in bed with a man. In fact, rumor has it in "Workforce" the scene with Jaffen and the blanket on the couch was originally going to be a sex scene. Then it was decided that the favored demographic couldn't handle it. Well, if I were a member of the favored demographic I would be offended at the thought I couldn't handle the real thing and could be placated with crotch shots instead.

Anyway, I'm guessing this is where you're going but if I'm wrong I blame the red wine.

Don't worry, the wine didn't inebriate your senses too much.

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, I want them to explore relationships like this in a serious manner and I don't think Trek even got close to the reality. Odo/Kira was the best I think Trek has managed, but even that felt incredibly unrealistic at times. Torres/Paris wasn't too bad either, but I have problems with that as well.

Despite my joke earlier in this thread I don't want Trek to be like BSG because BSG is too dark to be a Trek series, but I would like Trek to treat relationships and sexuality in a similar way as it is on BSG. BSG still has some of Trek's problems; Six was clearly an attempt to go after the 7 of 9 demographic and that put me off the show for a long time (I only started watching it 4 months ago because I was put off by Six when I first saw it). But when it comes to the frakked up relationships of Kara and Apollo and Anders and Dee and Billy and Adama and Roslin... it feels more real, it feels like as if the writers are treating the audience as adults and that is not what happened in a lot of Trek.