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Ending the "Mexico City Policy" - Obama's Hope Begins

Why should my money be used to fund abortion? Hardly constitutional.
Why should my money be used to fund "faith based initiatives"? How many people were indoctrinated into christianity on my tax dollar because they fell on hard times and needed help? 'Cause we all know that help from a religious group comes with a price tag.

That's a good question, but it is still a red herring.
How so? It's the same complaint you have - my tax dollars being spent for something I don't agree with. I don't appreciate my tax dollars being used for waging war either. I'd love to be able to choose which programs my money is spent on. I'd pick reproductive health care for poor women over crooked religious organizations any day.
 
It seems on the 36th anniversary of Roe vs. Wade, President Obama will reverse Bush's reinstatement of the Mexico City Policy, in which no American dollars would be used to help fund a family planning agency that included anything about abortion in its tenets, teachings and beliefs.

The Hope begins. :)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/19/obama.abortion/index.html

I am not too fond of MY tax dollars being spent abroad for family planning and abortions when there are people in the US who should benefit from that money. We need to start taking care of our own house first, rather than the entire world.
 
I am not too fond of MY tax dollars being spent abroad for family planning and abortions when there are people in the US who should benefit from that money. We need to start taking care of our own house first, rather than the entire world.
I sympathize with this point of view more than you know, but I've come to the conclusion that it isn't as straight-forward as that. A holistic view will demonstrate that if the quality of life decreases too far in other countries, and population increases there beyond supportable numbers, and we don't help, they will have to redirect more of their own resources to deal with the problems. Also, they become easy (or at least, easier) pickings for dictatorial regimes and recruitment by terrorist organizations. Even if they don't get across the ocean to us with their destructive ways, they can possibly reach our allies and/or our major trade partners. These factors, in turn, will have an effect on our quality of life as those allies and partners see resources they were sharing or trading with us outright destroyed, squandered by corruption, or simply turned away from us and toward dealing with their problems.

We don't live in a box, no matter how correct the founding fathers were about the defensively insulative properties of the Atlantic. (Ever decreasingly, as transportation and communications technologies improve.) These problems can still make the price of our oil skyrocket (which in turn will make prices on almost everything else go up), and deprive you of bananas, mangos, inexpensive electronics, and who knows what else.

If managed correctly, when we spend money to make things better there, we are spending it to make things better here.
 
This is a sad thing. :(
Depends on your point of view. If you take this as "we're paying for abortions that would not have otherwise happened", then I agree. But if you take this as "we are paying for women who otherwise would have had abortions anyway, and might have had them botched by non-professionals with severe negative health consequences", then it is a positive step to take.

Also, two things I rarely hear conservatives talk about:

1. There are studies that indicate that the crime rate in the United States has steadily declined since abortion was legalized. One implication being that the unwanted children stopped growing up to be criminals as often. You may be alive right now because your parents were never gunned down in a botched mugging by someone who was aborted. (Of course, one might also argue that, sadly, this is also the reason you aren't Batman, but I digress. ;))

2. Some few people (good, good Christians, to be sure :wtf:) might say that it is deserved if a woman who gets a botched non-professional abortion develops complications or even dies. But the complications aren't always for the mother. One of my friends in high school had a cousin who was a "coat-hanger baby" - his mother tried to abort him herself, and failed. I'd go over to my friend's house (he lived with his grandfather), and a lot of the time, the cousin was there, too. Not to make light, but dude was like the big chompa-machooie-chomp clone of Stan on the fifth episode of South Park. Actually, it was all pretty damned sad. Oversized, mentally retarded, never developed all of one leg and had to wear a prosthesis - and pretty angry all the time. I would have been, too. :(
 
Woohoo! Obama gets to use taxpayer money to kill more kids. He's got a dusty cabinet position for any newborn that needs it.

Can't wait until he reverses Bush's Africian Aides aide. Just another of Bush's failed policies.

Well, remember that George W. Bush used a lot of taxpayer money to kill kids too (only these were in the U.S. Army) - only that is known as The Iraq War.
 
Woohoo! Obama gets to use taxpayer money to kill more kids. He's got a dusty cabinet position for any newborn that needs it.

Can't wait until he reverses Bush's Africian Aides aide. Just another of Bush's failed policies.

Well, remember that George W. Bush used a lot of taxpayer money to kill kids too (only these were in the U.S. Army) - only that is known as The Iraq War.

:rolleyes: Operative word being, um, drumroll please.... WAR. Which was authorized by Congress.

We now return you to the thread already in progress.
 
Why should my money be used to fund "faith based initiatives"? How many people were indoctrinated into christianity on my tax dollar because they fell on hard times and needed help? 'Cause we all know that help from a religious group comes with a price tag.

That's a good question, but it is still a red herring.

Not really. If you want to play with the concept of the government being moral, then you have to accept that not everyone is going to agree what is moral. And not everyone agrees it's moral for the government to fund certain groups you find acceptable. Which I beleive is the basis of your argument.

Also, even if this money is used for good, it does not eliminate the fact that it is also being used for an immoral purpose.

Yup, that's what you're saying.

Can find where in the Constitution funding for overseas abortions is permitted? That is my argument.
 
Why should my money be used to fund "faith based initiatives"? How many people were indoctrinated into christianity on my tax dollar because they fell on hard times and needed help? 'Cause we all know that help from a religious group comes with a price tag.

That's a good question, but it is still a red herring.
How so? It's the same complaint you have - my tax dollars being spent for something I don't agree with. I don't appreciate my tax dollars being used for waging war either. I'd love to be able to choose which programs my money is spent on. I'd pick reproductive health care for poor women over crooked religious organizations any day.

It doesn't matter what we want, but what the Constitution permits.
 
Everywhere that it's not prohibited.


Anything that is not expressly permitted by the Constitution is forbidden.
New to America, are you? :rommie:

Ninth Amendment.

Tenth Amendment.
You do realize that neither of the amendments you posted have anything to do with what Meat Tenderizer was saying? In fact the 10th amendment directly supports the argument. That's the whole purpose of the enumerated powers, though the general welfare clause & the commerce clause have been taken to give a general power of legislation to Congress (something it was not originally intended).
 
Anything that is not expressly permitted by the Constitution is forbidden.
New to America, are you? :rommie:

Ninth Amendment.

Tenth Amendment.
You do realize that neither of the amendments you posted have anything to do with what Meat Tenderizer was saying? In fact the 10th amendment directly supports the argument. That's the whole purpose of the enumerated powers, though the general welfare clause & the commerce clause have been taken to give a general power of legislation to Congress (something it was not originally intended).
Another recent arrival? :rommie:

Meat Tenderizer said: "Anything that is not expressly permitted by the Constitution is forbidden." This is the polar opposite of the American way, as stated (among other places) in the Ninth Amendment, which says, "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." In plain English, that means, "Anything that is not expressly forbidden by the Constitution is permitted." :rommie:

Furthermore, the Tenth Amendment states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." In plain English, that means, "Anything not expressly forbidden by the Constitution is permitted." :rommie:

This is one of the things that made the establishment of the United States revolutionary; throughout history, in most, if not all, civilizations, the answer was assumed to be "no," unless someone in power condescended to say "yes." In the United States, the exact opposite is true. And this is not exactly some arcane secret either; it's common knowledge. ;)
 
You do realize that neither of the amendments you posted have anything to do with what Meat Tenderizer was saying? In fact the 10th amendment directly supports the argument. That's the whole purpose of the enumerated powers, though the general welfare clause & the commerce clause have been taken to give a general power of legislation to Congress (something it was not originally intended).
Another recent arrival? :rommie:

Meat Tenderizer said: "Anything that is not expressly permitted by the Constitution is forbidden." This is the polar opposite of the American way, as stated (among other places) in the Ninth Amendment, which says, "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." In plain English, that means, "Anything that is not expressly forbidden by the Constitution is permitted." :rommie:

Emoticons do not support you tenous position. But please, feel free to use them.

Your clever "plain English" view of the Ninth Amendment is quite amusing. It makes me laugh. And if Walter E. Williams was here, he'd laugh too.

So we should start by actually reading it. What it is saying is basically that although the Constitution lists certain rights the people have, such as the freedom to speech or religion, those rights are not the only rights the people possess. For example, even though the Constitution does not specifically grant the right to privacy, we as a people still posses it, thus the need for the Ninth Amenment. The Constitution could never list all the rights of the people.

It does not grant a blank check for the government to spend money on any program it sees fit.

Furthermore, the Tenth Amendment states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." In plain English, that means, "Anything not expressly forbidden by the Constitution is permitted." :rommie:

Actually it means that any power not conferred to the federal government is reserved for the states or people. It grants no power to the federal government. Now tell me, where does the Constitution give the federal government the power to fund overseas abortions? It does not get that from the amendments cited.

This is one of the things that made the establishment of the United States revolutionary; throughout history, in most, if not all, civilizations, the answer was assumed to be "no," unless someone in power condescended to say "yes." In the United States, the exact opposite is true. And this is not exactly some arcane secret either; it's common knowledge. ;)


You have shifted topic from governmental powers to the rights of people, two separate (yet related) issues. Can you stay on the topic?
 
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You said:

Anything that is not expressly permitted by the Constitution is forbidden.

Now you admit:

What it is saying is basically that although the Constitution lists certain rights the people have, such as the freedom to speech or religion, those rights are not the only rights the people possess. For example, even though the Constitution does not specifically grant the right to privacy, we as a people still posses it, thus the need for the Ninth Amenment. The Constitution could never list all the rights of the people.
Can you stay on the topic?
Sure. Can you decide what it is? :rommie:
 
You said:

Anything that is not expressly permitted by the Constitution is forbidden.

Now you admit:

What it is saying is basically that although the Constitution lists certain rights the people have, such as the freedom to speech or religion, those rights are not the only rights the people possess. For example, even though the Constitution does not specifically grant the right to privacy, we as a people still posses it, thus the need for the Ninth Amenment. The Constitution could never list all the rights of the people.
Can you stay on the topic?
Sure. Can you decide what it is? :rommie:


The quote "Anything that is not expressly permitted by the Constitution is forbidden" means little without context, which you failed to provide. So let me state same sentence again with context.

Anything (governmental powers at the federal level) that is not expressly permitted by the Constitution is forbidden.

You see, I am referring to federal powers. Any powers the government is delegated by the Constitution it retains, however all other powers it is prohibited from using, and are reserved for the states and the people. Read the Tenth Amendment.

I don't know what your point is now, except to take my posts out of context and respond with copious amount of emoticons.
 
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