Disney Owns the Muppets, So NOW What?

[Christopher]

^^Well, The Muppet Christmas Carol was written by Jerry Juhl, who been the Muppets' head writer from The Muppet Show onward and had been part of Henson's creative team as far back as Sam and Friends. So despite the loss of Henson and Richard Hunt, the movie was still mostly done by the "authentic" core creative team. Juhl also cowrote Muppet Treasure Island and Muppets from Space, but TMCC was all his.

The deterioration of Muppet productions in recent years is as much due to the declining involvement (and 2005 death) of Juhl, and the drifting away of key performers Frank Oz and Jerry Nelson, as it is to Jim Henson's loss. Henson was the linchpin, but he built a strong team that was able to keep doing good work without him. But a lot of that team has moved on and been replaced now. Indeed, maybe it's my bias as a writer, but I think Juhl may have been just as much the "soul" of the Muppets as Henson was. I feel there's a pretty clear difference in quality between the Muppet productions written by Juhl and those lacking his touch.

 

[TGTheodore]

Agreed. The later material has far less warmth, smarts, slyness and sincerity.

--Ted

 

[Gepard]

Muppets haven't been the same since Henson died

If I hear any negative words about the Muppet Christmas Carol, I will ruin so many lives.

Truth, man. Truth.

 

[Falcor5]

Muppets haven't been the same since Henson died

If I hear any negative words about the Muppet Christmas Carol, I will ruin so many lives.

LOVE that movie. To me its right up there with the Henson Muppet Movies. I cant have a Christmas go by where I don't watch it!

 

[Tulin]

Eh, just never been entertained by them. Ever.

They're... "funny"-ish. But I dunno, I never got the hooplah over them.

WTF?!?!?!

 

[Tulin]

I still have the first Muppets TV special after Henson's death on a VHS tape somewhere. It was called "The Muppets Remember Jim Henson", which was funny because none of them did. At one point, when the story of Henson came around to puppetry, all the Muppets looked down at their handlers and freaked out swearing never to look at them again!

Anyway, the secondary plot of the show (besides all the flashbacks from Henson's past) was that Kermit was MISSING! Of course, anyone who knows anything about the Muppets knows that Kermit WAS Henson's own heart and soul...and it's actually making me tear up a bit remembering how, when they finally found Kermit (voiced by Brian Henson), it was hard because you KNEW it wasn't Henson and the voice hadn't quite been perfected yet.

But Kermit still lived. A very gut-wrenching moment, to be sure. But cathartic at the time as well (Henson's passing was SO SUDDEN and unexpected it had become hard to handle that he was gone for those of us who grew up with him always there).

What made it sadder was that they kept reading letters from people and children saying how much they would miss Henson. It was all very meta, very melancholy but also VERY touching and tender.

I remember watching with a good friend of mine at the time who was a pretty unemotional guy but he REALLY loved the muppets. I knew it was getting to him when I saw him tear up at the end.

Henson's death, even perhaps moreso than Roddenberry's was a shock and a tragedy to his creation that still has never really recovered.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

^^Well, The Muppet Christmas Carol was written by Jerry Juhl, who been the Muppets' head writer from The Muppet Show onward and had been part of Henson's creative team as far back as Sam and Friends. So despite the loss of Henson and Richard Hunt, the movie was still mostly done by the "authentic" core creative team. Juhl also cowrote Muppet Treasure Island and Muppets from Space, but TMCC was all his.

The deterioration of Muppet productions in recent years is as much due to the declining involvement (and 2005 death) of Juhl, and the drifting away of key performers Frank Oz and Jerry Nelson, as it is to Jim Henson's loss. Henson was the linchpin, but he built a strong team that was able to keep doing good work without him. But a lot of that team has moved on and been replaced now. Indeed, maybe it's my bias as a writer, but I think Juhl may have been just as much the "soul" of the Muppets as Henson was. I feel there's a pretty clear difference in quality between the Muppet productions written by Juhl and those lacking his touch.

You may be right. I certainly hope Juhl had nothing to do with that piece of crap that was Kermit's Swamp Years.

Still, his involvement did little to save Muppet Treasure Island. (Although, it did have one bit that I really liked when they were doing the roll call for the crew, "...Old Tom. ... Really Old Tom. ... Dead Tom...")

I never even bothered with Muppets from Space but my friends who have say it was pretty bad.

 

[Christopher]

You may be right. I certainly hope Juhl had nothing to do with that piece of crap that was Kermit's Swamp Years.

Nope. Written by Jim Lewis & Joseph Mazzarino.

I never even bothered with Muppets from Space but my friends who have say it was pretty bad.

I don't really recall, but I think I found it adequate. Although it was from the Pepe the Prawn era, so not a favorite.

 

[TGTheodore]

Finally made it through Muppets: Letters to Santa.

Not quite as HORRIBLE as I was expecting, but the songs REALLY let me down. It all seemed like a "Muppets By Numbers" painting that the painters used the wrong colors on.

Not too keen on Gonzo being the main character again ... though I really like Gonzo.

And writing Miss Piggy out the way they did (for most of the movie) somehow reminded of me of when they banished Suzanne Somers from the Three's Company set and made her phone in her one scene per week.

Kermit and Piggy just didn't have the same presence they usually do. (Yes, I know about the different voices and performers).

--Ted

 

[Christopher]

Kermit and Piggy just didn't have the same presence they usually do. (Yes, I know about the different voices and performers).

It's not just the performers -- or rather, not just the fact that their voices have changed. The center of mass of the Muppet troupe has shifted. Now that the core performers are Dave Goelz, Steve Whitmire, and Bill Barretta, the emphasis has shifted more and more to their "trademark" characters, Gonzo, Rizzo, and Pepe. Of course, Whitmire is Kermit now, but that's someone else's character that he inherited, while Rizzo is all his. This has been going on in the movies as well, ever since Muppet Christmas Carol established the Gonzo-Rizzo pairing and made them the narrators. Even though Kermit, Fozzie, and Piggy tend to be featured players to some degree or another, they just don't feel as much like the viewpoint characters anymore, or the ones primarily driving the action. I mean, here, it was Gonzo's concern about the letters that drove the story, and Kermit was rather wishy-washy about the whole thing, with Fozzie just along for the ride and Piggy essentially doing a cameo.