Lucid Dreaming? Sort of? WTF?

[Lindley]

I do remember thinking once, "Odd, usually the images in my dreams don't have such clarity" once.

 

[Jadzia]

Yes I have had this (lucid dreaming). About 2002 I think it was, I read all about it, and beginning a couple of nights later I began a series of lucid dreams. The first one I was too excited, and I woke up very soon after. Realizing that I could

Interesting... did the dream happen because you read something about it days before, or was it a totally independent phenomenon?

I tend to think it was caused by learning about it. By imagining a lucid dream experience whilst reading about it, perhaps I prepared a mental template for the actual experience???

Unfortunately I don't dream anymore.

I think everyone can still dream (both in the philosophical, Dr. Martin Luther the King sense and in the neurophysiological and psychological definitions of course ) but they've just forgotten that they do.

When I was younger, my night time travels were a big part of my life. Typically I'd have 2-4 independent dreams per night, always joyous rich and colourful experiences, and I'd always remember them in the morning, up to about lunchtime by which time I'd have forgotten many of the details. But this was typical of every night.

Then around the age of 20, they seemed to slow up, I'd have only 1 dream per night, that I'd remember in detail upto lunchtime, then 1 dream per week, that I'd be able to remember in detail upto lunchtime, and gradually less and less frequent. It is felt as a great loss to me, to have such a joyful part of my life cut out.

But it's more than that. When I don't dream, I wake up feeling less refreshed, but in a way that is hard to describe.

With dreaming, my days were separated with these creative breaks. So in the morning I felt creatively inspired, and my mind loaded with these rich and colourful dream memories. But without dreaming, each day feels strangely contiguous with the next; like I'm living through just one very long day with a 6-8 hours of sleep every 24 hours. There's no creative break. And it's almost a craving, that I want my dreams back. I feel dream-deprived

Having said this, two nights ago I was surprised that I had one of my old three-dream nights. The first in a long time. And I felt creatively inspired in the morning, so felt more refreshed. And as before I could remember these dreams in detail until lunchtime. So what caused this? Taking 16mg codeine to relieve temporary sinus pain (another story). So obviously something has gone wrong somewhere with my dreaming, and have discovered that codeine seems to fix it, but I know that's not a realistic solution.

 

[Holdfast]

The OP's event where he still hears growling whilst knowing he's awake sound closer to a hypnopompic hallucination than lucid dreaming to me.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

I think I'm the only person here who has never had a dream about flying. I guess I prefer to keep my dream-feet on the ground at all times. I have had the old "going to work without clothes" dream, though, but in my case it was primary school, and I was wearing a dressing gown.

Remembering dreams also used to come easy to me, Jadzia, and I have to admit that it has become more difficult remembering all the details. It's now possibly standard that the one thing I remember about certain dreams is usually the last "act" of the dream itself, and very little to nothing about the beginning and middle. For instance, this afternoon I had a dream that all my teeth fell out, but apart from the fact that I also was visiting some castle of some kind in the dream, that's all I remember.

Whenever I prepare for a night shift (such as this week), I find I dream a lot, but I put that down to getting too much REM sleep and not enough deep sleep during the day, and waking up a lot in-between as a result, leaving me tired and uncomfortable on that first shift. I put the tired feeling down to sleep interruption rather than disturbance of dreams per se.

Perhaps the key to heightened creativity in the morning is more to do with getting a good night's sleep than in getting dreams itself? You might be getting the hours in, but are you sure you're getting good quality sleep?
[After reading Zion Ravescene's posts, I'm surprised there isn't an epidemic of somnolence at the TrekBBS... - everyone]

 

[Jadzia]

Perhaps the key to heightened creativity in the morning is more to do with getting a good night's sleep than in getting dreams itself? You might be getting the hours in, but are you sure you're getting good quality sleep?

Maybe But I've always felt that I sleep well. My sleep pattern hasn't noticeably changed. I fall asleep within an hour of going to bed, and almost never is my sleep disturbed by waking up before the morning. In fact, when I wake up in the morning I'm usually laying in the same position I fell asleep in, as though I haven't even moved a limb.

This is typically how it's always been for me, but just that I'm without dreams now. I don't feel tiredness in the morning or sleepy throughout the day (that would be a symptom of poor quality sleep), just this sense of having not dreamed, and feeling at a loss as I've described, because of it.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

Perhaps the key to heightened creativity in the morning is more to do with getting a good night's sleep than in getting dreams itself? You might be getting the hours in, but are you sure you're getting good quality sleep?

Maybe But I've always felt that I sleep well. My sleep pattern hasn't noticeably changed. I fall asleep within an hour of going to bed, and almost never is my sleep disturbed by waking up before the morning. In fact, when I wake up in the morning I'm usually laying in the same position I fell asleep in, as though I haven't even moved a limb.

This is typically how it's always been for me, but just that I'm without dreams now. I don't feel tiredness in the morning or sleepy throughout the day (that would be a symptom of poor quality sleep), just this sense of having not dreamed, and feeling at a loss as I've described, because of it.

Hmm. The codeine you mentioned earlier might have helped things, suggesting that something might have been affecting the onset of dreams. I wonder if there may be a neurotransmitter imbalance somewhere. Some chemicals, medications and foods have been purported to stimulate dreams (cheese and chocolate being the most-often cited, with beta-blocker drugs notable for causing nightmares in some) and certainly from personal experience it appears to be the case, although maybe it's because I knowingly consumed those things and believed the theory, causing me to have the dream? Perhaps there is a psychological component to it all. [I don't think ZR knows what he's talking about - someone]

 

[RJDiogenes]

The problem for me is that soon after I start to control the dream, I end up waking myself up....

It's a subtle thing. If you put too much effort in it, you'll wake up. Just start with small changes that would not scream to your (mind's) eye.
Or simply change the mood of the dream without modifying what's happening.

My problem is that even though the dream is lucid, I'm not. I imagine it's a similar thing to being drugged or drunk, but I do silly nonsensical things, rather than trying to practice maintaining control. For example: One time I dreamed I was chairing a meeting in a lavish board room when I realized it was a dream. I said so aloud and the dream characters all laughed and denied it. So, in order to prove it, I did the old hand jive and made their faces stretch out like the guys in Spy vs. Spy. Then I laughed myself awake.

The OP's event where he still hears growling whilst knowing he's awake sound closer to a hypnopompic hallucination than lucid dreaming to me.

I frequently get hypnagogic hallucinations; I didn't even know until now that there was a separate term for doing it waking up.

 

[K'Ehleyr]

... other times I try to call for help or alert someone to danger and all I manage is a wheeze...

I had that twice last week. 1st one I dreamt the curtains were slightly opened and there was a dark haired woman in a red jumper staring at me through the window (I am on the ground floor so she wasn't flying!). I tried to scream and woke up after managing a small grunt. Spooky thing is I was in exactly the same position as I was in the dream. The next night was 'bird boy'. In the dream I had been watching a adult/kid chasing birds to eat them, when I got to bed in the dream I saw him come towards me and crawl along the bed, this time I managed a full blown 'help me, help me' loud enough to wake boyfriend who despite my wide eyed fear was just put out by being woken up! I love dreams

 

[Jadzia]

The OP's event where he still hears growling whilst knowing he's awake sound closer to a hypnopompic hallucination than lucid dreaming to me.

I tend to agree.


What about being asleep and then hearing a loud noise at the point of waking up, such that one feels it was that sound which woke one up with a start. Something like a crashing noise, or an echoing door slam. I've had that a few times.

Is it typically that I have already woken up and had a hypnopompic hallucination?

Or have I dreamt the sound and it's been so acute in my mind that it is that sound which has actually woken me up.

Or is it something more transitional, that as the brain is turning to a waking state, activating certain areas, some of that electrical reactivation is experienced as a sudden crashing sound, which is neither of the above.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

What about being asleep and then hearing a loud noise at the point of waking up, such that one feels it was that sound which woke one up with a start. Something like a crashing noise, or an echoing door slam. I've had that a few times.

Is it typically that I have already woken up and had a hypnopompic hallucination?

Or have I dreamt the sound and it's been so acute in my mind that it is that sound which has actually woken me up.

Or is it something more transitional, that as the brain is turning to a waking state, activating certain areas, some of that electrical reactivation is experienced as a sudden crashing sound, which is neither of the above.

I think it's probably the second option, the sound (or often a vision) being dreamed in the dream, which may be interpreted as something shocking. Physically, I find I "shudder" a little when this happens.

Actually, I find that external sounds play a huge role in the shape and structure of my dreams. Often, their presence coincides with the end of the dream state (naturally one would wake up by your bedisde alarm which might signify a microwave oven or something in your dream). It makes me wonder if hearing is actually preserved during late REM sleep? I remember when I was a kid, and one time our family spent Christmas with relatives in Essex. I woke up early (we all slept in the downstairs living room) and decided to play with the cats (this was years before I developed cat allergy, but I digress) and was hidihg their toys in various places. My sister could actually hear my voice, talking to myself (as one often did and still does) in a dream she was having at that very moment.

I sleep with a clock radio set to play music or, nowadays, talk radio, to wake me up (waking up with Nicky Campbell... the horror ) and very often I actually hear the music vividly in the dream, or the subject discussed on the radio station (the latest news, a travel update, etc.) and these sounds would manifest itself into something extremely vivid and memorable in the dream itself. (I remember while at University I would have several dreams about the Corrs... the funniest being one where I was watching them playing a small concert then suddenly they downed instruments and stood there, motionless - my radio alarm had shut itself off. ) Indeed, I've learned also that by experiencing familiar passages of music in my dreams this way, I can measure how my perception of the passage of time is distorted (usually slowed down considerably) during my dream state.

 

[Lindley]

Yes, I've had the "real sounds intrude on the dream" experience too. For whatever reason, the one I remember most is from over 10 years ago----in my dream my parents sat down at a table in some courtyard and began talking about taxes and whatnot, and when I woke up sometime later.....yeah, they were.

 

[Franklin]

Sounds like you had sleep paralysis.

When you're in REM sleep your body releases a hormone into your system to paralyze you, or else you'd "act out" your dream people who suffer from sleep walking have a "fault" in this process.

Sometimes people will wake up while in REM sleep, the body is still paralyzed and you can often still be in a "dream-like" state.

It can be very disconcerting and even has been attributed to many "alien abduction" claims.

I've experienced this quite often. But one time, it really scarred me. I "awoke" gasping for breath and feeling like my chest was being crushed. It probably only lasted a couple of seconds, but I really thought I was having a heart attack. I was afraid to go back to sleep. I found out later that what happened to me that one time can be a common feeling in such a state. Some folks even believe someone is sitting on their chest, trying to suffocate them.

 

[Mr Awe]

I've had sleep paralysis on a number of occasions - and very freaky it was, too. Very, very unpleasant. But that was a few years ago. Hopefully that's the end of it!

I've had sleep paralysis a couple of times. Just remember, the more you fight against it the more unpleasant it is. If you just relax, it passes more quickly and isn't unpleasant.

Mr Awe

 

[Zulu Romeo]

I've had sleep paralysis on a number of occasions - and very freaky it was, too. Very, very unpleasant. But that was a few years ago. Hopefully that's the end of it!

I've had sleep paralysis a couple of times. Just remember, the more you fight against it the more unpleasant it is. If you just relax, it passes more quickly and isn't unpleasant.

Every time it happens to me, I prepare myself for death to claim my soul and bring it into the abyss. Each time, however, I end up back in the land of the living once again. Maybe next time.

 

[Holdfast]

The OP's event where he still hears growling whilst knowing he's awake sound closer to a hypnopompic hallucination than lucid dreaming to me.

I tend to agree.

What about being asleep and then hearing a loud noise at the point of waking up, such that one feels it was that sound which woke one up with a start. Something like a crashing noise, or an echoing door slam.

Sorry.

I'll be quieter next time...

 

[TrekGuide.com]

I think I've had lucid dreaming a couple of times. Usually it involves me stupidly jumping down a flight of stairs, or off a building or whatever, or I'll be running and take a jump, then realise what's going on. I can will myself to fly, usually more like swimming in thin air.

I wake up realising how easy it is to fly, and cursing myself for not doing it all these years, but then the logic and the reason I came up with in the dream leaves me, and the secret of defying gravity is lost once again

I have had similar dreams. Since I was a kid, I've had periodic dreams where I am running, and I reach a velocity where I no longer need to touch the ground (sort of like orbital velocity one foot above the surface of an asteroid).

In other dreams, I'm not running, but just sort of hovering a few inches above the ground because I'm too lazy to move my feet as I'm walking (sort of the sensation of the Hoverboard from "Back to the Future II").

I've had one dream where I am doing the full-on Superman flying, with my arms out in front of me, soaring over the mountains. In other dreams, I have a magic "flying vest" on (like a jet-peck, but without the pesky jet), or a dream where I have an anti-gravity shoe on (just one, so I need to concentrate on balancing on one foot as I levitate).

I have had so many dreams about levitating over so many years, that whenever I look down and see my feet aren't touching the ground, I think, "Wow, this is just like that dream I've had where I'm levitating," and then I immediately wake up.

I also have had the dream where I take a flying leap from the top of a staircase, but in this dream I never have the ability to fly. My last thought is always, "This is going to hurt," but I always wake up before I reach the ground.

I often wake up thinking I've just dreamed a fantastic new invention, or novel, or movie script, which will make me rich, but then I realize that the impression that it was a good idea was also part of the dream (rocket-skates powered by unicorn saliva probably will not be the next big eco-friendly mode of transportation, but seemed brilliant when I was asleep). I have some dreams about watching a TV ad for a new product that are so realistic that days later I will actually think I saw an ad for that product, and I get an urge to go to the store to buy it, but can't remember what store it was, or where I saw the ad.

I've had a couple instances where I was in the middle of a dream and just suddenly realized that it was a dream, and also realized that I was still dreaming after realizing that it was a dream, so then I started thinking, "I've got to start dating a supermodel before I wake up. Or eat 100 doughnuts. Or kill Hitler. Or fly over the Grand Canyon." But then I spend so much effort trying to control my dream that I wake myself up.

I've never had sleep paralysis. When I wake up, it's a clean break from dream world. Sometimes, when I set my alarm clock, I will have a dream about a siren or a buzzer going off for two minutes, and I am desperately trying to press buttons on a big control panel to turn off the siren, and I wake up to find that I've pressed all the buttons and turned all the dials on my clock, my radio, and every other device within reach of my bed.

 

[Lindley]

One time a number of years ago I woke up in a state where I wasn't entirely sure I could separate dream from reality. I knew I was awake, but it felt like it was taking an excessive measure of will to hang on to my sanity.

In the end I opened my computer and punched up some music on iTunes, and that seemed to help ground me. But it was a very strange sensation.

 

[TrekGuide.com]

I sleep with a clock radio set to play music or, nowadays, talk radio, to wake me up (waking up with Nicky Campbell... the horror ) and very often I actually hear the music vividly in the dream, or the subject discussed on the radio station (the latest news, a travel update, etc.) and these sounds would manifest itself into something extremely vivid and memorable in the dream itself.

This often happens to me. I dream that I am sitting next to the radio announcer as he is reading the news, or I dream about the traffic accident that the announcer is describing on my clock-radio.

I sometimes think it would be interesting to replace my clock-radio with a recording of foreign-language lessons, or an educational book-on-tape, since I can apparently hear and sleep at the same time -- maybe I'd be smarter when I wake up. ...

 

[iguana_tonante]

The OP's event where he still hears growling whilst knowing he's awake sound closer to a hypnopompic hallucination than lucid dreaming to me.

This happened to my girlfriend one time, and she was seriously scared about that, and was too afraid to get back to sleep for the night. Luckily for her, I explained it for her in the morning, and she was very relieved. Well, having a fountain of trivia for a boyfriend paid off for one time!

What about being asleep and then hearing a loud noise at the point of waking up, such that one feels it was that sound which woke one up with a start. Something like a crashing noise, or an echoing door slam. I've had that a few times.

Me too, especially if I was slowly falling asleep again after waking up. I think it was myself awaking again very abruptly, and my brain interpreting the fact as a loud noise, even if there was none.

Sounds like you had sleep paralysis.

I've experienced this quite often. But one time, it really scarred me. I "awoke" gasping for breath and feeling like my chest was being crushed. It probably only lasted a couple of seconds, but I really thought I was having a heart attack. I was afraid to go back to sleep. I found out later that what happened to me that one time can be a common feeling in such a state. Some folks even believe someone is sitting on their chest, trying to suffocate them.

My worst experience with sleep paralysis was that i was unable to open my jaw. All of my body probably was paralyzed, but for some reasons I didn't try to move it, so I didn't realized. My jaw however was like nailed to the skull, and i could not open it. I tried so hard it was quite painful, but to no avail. Then I relaxed for a moment and it went away like that.

One time a number of years ago I woke up in a state where I wasn't entirely sure I could separate dream from reality. I knew I was awake, but it felt like it was taking an excessive measure of will to hang on to my sanity.

In the end I opened my computer and punched up some music on iTunes, and that seemed to help ground me. But it was a very strange sensation.

It happened to me, too (oh my, I'm doing a lot of confessions in this therad! ). It happened also in the middle of the day some times. I felt very detach from reality, like I was seeing and hearing it from a great distance. Also the sense of touch was quite skewed. It lasted for some minutes, then went away. Very strange indeed.

 

[Holdfast]

The OP's event where he still hears growling whilst knowing he's awake sound closer to a hypnopompic hallucination than lucid dreaming to me.

This happened to my girlfriend one time, and she was seriously scared about that, and was too afraid to get back to sleep for the night. Luckily for her, I explained it for her in the morning, and she was very relieved. Well, having a fountain of trivia for a boyfriend paid off for one time!

I had one back when I was a kid - I was awake, but still lying in bed eyes shut, sleepy. I was sure that my dad had come into the room and called my name and shook me on the shoulder to wake me up. I didn't open my eyes, wanting to sleep more. Then a half-minute of perceived time late, I realised never heard the door shut behind him, so opened my eyes & looked around and was majorly spooked to not see him in the room. I asked him later that day if he had come in and he denied it completely. Figured I was just dreaming after all, but later when I learnt about hypnopompic hallucinations I realised what must have happened! Pretty weird effect.