Sacrifice of Angels Question

[Timo]

I don't really buy the "they wouldn't harm Odo" argument. In virtually every encounter between Dominion forces and Odo, the former made an attempt at the latter's life!

It was Odo's own damn fault for playing Changeling shield for the Solids, of course - this deprived the nice Founders of the luxury of being friendly and nonviolent towards a fellow Changeling. But really, there would be no way for the Jem'Hadar to tell whether Odo was aboard the Alpha Quadrant starship that they were trying to destroy or not.

And even if we ignore these accidental or deliberate blue-on-blue attacks by the Jem'Hadar, we can't ignore the fact that Founders themselves have tried to murder Odo in virtually every one of their encounters. "Heart of Stone" and the brief period of DS9 occupation stand apart as rare exceptions to that rule...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Then the show would be over. How is that a good edit?

I meant like a comical edit, like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXbigVva_48

 

[Damask]

And even if we ignore these accidental or deliberate blue-on-blue attacks by the Jem'Hadar, we can't ignore the fact that Founders themselves have tried to murder Odo in virtually every one of their encounters. "Heart of Stone" and the brief period of DS9 occupation stand apart as rare exceptions to that rule...

You also have "The Die is Cast". Did Founder Martok want to keep Odo out of the danger had Sisko killed Gowron in Apocalypse Now before Odo blew his cover?

I think there's a key difference between the Dominion not wanting to kill Odo and the Founders not wanting to kill him. Even certain Founders. We've see Weyoun misinterpret what the Female Founder's plans were for Odo during the Occupation.

True we did see Odo being attacked by Founders but the Female Founder seemed fond of Odo and I doubt anyone was going to blow up the station when he was on it and she was around.

Weyoun asking the Female Founder about Odo when leavingand her reply that Odo will join them someday would I suspect throw the notion of blowing up the station from Weyoun's mind.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Timo is correct. Sisko's plan is to use the fighters to provoke the Cardassian captains (since the Vorta ones will be too disciplined) in to breaking formation, creating a hole he can punch through.

Dukat sees this plan (interestingly Weyoun and the Female Founder do not) and plans to give them the hole in order to close it on them, trapping the Starfleet ships. In exchange, Dax and Sisko realise this but opt to try to push through anyway.

They get a bit lucky when the Klingons show up and flank the Dominion fleet, though.

The goal was not to destroy the Dominion fleet, it was to get past it.

As I watched this episode, I felt at if Dukat, who could see what Sisko was tyring to do, was actually trying to help Sisko in some strange way. I mean, he called the strategy right, and even made his side take the bait. If the cardys had not taken the bait, all was lost..IMO..

Rob

 

[Plecostomus]

Given what was to come with Dukat and Sisko it could have been a higher power guiding both of them.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The villains then commence evacuation (but for some reason don't do self-destruct).

They would have killed Odo.

That or Rom could have taken out the self destruct while all hell was breaking lose after taking the weapons offline.

 

[Timo]

...But since Rom's sabotage of the defenses had made the station vulnerable to starship attack, the Dominion fleet should have been able to destroy DS9 with a parting shot. No built-in self-destruct mechanism would have been necessary.

Then again, the Dominion minions probably realized outright that the divine intervention that had made their reinforcements disappear had also terminated the strategic significance of the wormhole for good. So DS9 would no longer serve a strategic role, either: it was a good defensive gunnery outpost, but not a particularly good base for a fleet, and it might in fact be a good idea to leave it intact so the Feds and Klingons would be tempted to settle with this inferior starbase rather than build a proper fleet base in the Bajoran system.

But really, wormhole or not, Bajor still was the frigging' next door neighbor to the Cardassian home system! It's quite strange that it got turned into such an insignificant backwater after the wormhole was Prophet-blockaded.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Praetor]

...But since Rom's sabotage of the defenses had made the station vulnerable to starship attack, the Dominion fleet should have been able to destroy DS9 with a parting shot. No built-in self-destruct mechanism would have been necessary.

Then again, the Dominion minions probably realized outright that the divine intervention that had made their reinforcements disappear had also terminated the strategic significance of the wormhole for good. So DS9 would no longer serve a strategic role, either: it was a good defensive gunnery outpost, but not a particularly good base for a fleet, and it might in fact be a good idea to leave it intact so the Feds and Klingons would be tempted to settle with this inferior starbase rather than build a proper fleet base in the Bajoran system.

But really, wormhole or not, Bajor still was the frigging' next door neighbor to the Cardassian home system! It's quite strange that it got turned into such an insignificant backwater after the wormhole was Prophet-blockaded.

Timo Saloniemi

Now that explanation makes sense beyond just 'cuz the Changeling said so.'

But your latter point is also right, it is really strange the fighting stayed away from DS9 afterward. Maybe there was a better way to island-hop to the Federation center, and from there the Romulans and Klingons? Surely the Cardassians weren't uncharacteristically superstitious the so-called 'Prophets' would get angry and stomp them into spacedust?

 

[Tulaberry whine]

The Dominion probably didn't destroy DS9 for the same reason they didn't occupy Bajor at the end of Call to Arms: it was now Bajoran property and they had signed a non-aggression pact with Bajor.

 

[Timo]

But the usefulness of that pact would have ended the moment the usefulness of the wormhole ended. The Dominion would have little to gain from continuing to favor the Bajorans, who had already proven devastatingly traitorous. And the Dominion modus operandi would be to severely punish those who betray them.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Damask]

But the usefulness of that pact would have ended the moment the usefulness of the wormhole ended. The Dominion would have little to gain from continuing to favor the Bajorans, who had already proven devastatingly traitorous. And the Dominion modus operandi would be to severely punish those who betray them.

However did it also have significance in that it was the first planet the Dominion made a treaty with? Would the Dominion have wanted to use Bajor as an example to other planets if all went to plan? Could the Dominion go "look we are treating Bajor okay, they've gone through years of brutal occupation and yet they don't have a bad word to say about us. So how about you sign this pact/treaty".

 

[Tulaberry whine]

But the usefulness of that pact would have ended the moment the usefulness of the wormhole ended. The Dominion would have little to gain from continuing to favor the Bajorans, who had already proven devastatingly traitorous. And the Dominion modus operandi would be to severely punish those who betray them.

Timo Saloniemi

Except the Dominion still had non-agression pacts with half of the Alpha Quadrant, most notably the Romulans. If the Dominion turned on Bajor the minute the war started going against them the worthlessness of those treaties would become rather plain, sentiment towards the Dominion would turn sharply and they'd probably find themselves fighting against more than just the Federation and Klingons - at the worst possible moment too. Afterall, the lull in fighting and peace initiatives after SOA suggests it took a while for the Dominion to fully regroup after the defeat.

Also, at this point only Kira (and I guess the security deputies) had betrayed the Dominion. The Bajoran Governnment up to that point had been very accommodating - even apparently allowing Vorta faciliators onto Bajor.

 

[Hermiod]

As I watched this episode, I felt at if Dukat, who could see what Sisko was tyring to do, was actually trying to help Sisko in some strange way. I mean, he called the strategy right, and even made his side take the bait. If the cardys had not taken the bait, all was lost..IMO..

I don't think I can agree with that after seeing how losing affected him and how he blamed it all on Sisko.

 

[Timo]

Also, at this point only Kira (and I guess the security deputies) had betrayed the Dominion. The Bajoran Governnment up to that point had been very accommodating - even apparently allowing Vorta faciliators onto Bajor.

Agreed on that. However, all that would be minutiae not visible to the outside world. What the Dominion could demonstrate to its Alpha partners is that there had been Bajoran sabotage and cooperation with the Alpha combatants, leading to the eviction of Dominion forces - things strongly contrary to the spirit, intent, and perhaps letter of the original treaty. OTOH, destroying DS9 could be argued to be destruction of Cardassian property, not Bajoran, with minimal semantic effort.

Given these possibilities, it would then become a question of choosing between two images: "We are benign and lenitient even in defeat" and "We are just in our wrath, but equally just towards our friends". In the circumstances, few of the Dominion's Alpha allies would agree to see the third alternative, the one that the Alpha combatants would want to propagate in case DS9 was destroyed: "The Dominion strikes out in frustrated spite against helpless, innocent victims when things go badly". Facts (as available to be presented by the Dominion) would be on the side of one of the former images, with the choice depending on whether DS9/Terok Nor was destroyed or not.

Timo Saloniemi