UFP in Paris pictures?

[Squid]

Hi Gang,

Does anyone know if the United Federation of Planets building in Paris is ever pictured? Like the front of the building? I'm going to get out my copy of Voyage Home, where I thought we saw maybe the inside of the UFP in Paris??. Does anyone know if it was featured in any of the shows instead? For some reason I thought maybe it was.

Hope everyone had a great New year!

Squid

 

[TheGodBen]

Memory Alpha is your friend.

 

[Squid]

GodBen - you rock! Thanks for narrowing it down. I've been all over the web and wiki and most obviously must have overlooked this. Thanks again! Squid

 

[TheGodBen]

Yup, I'm twelve types of awesome.

 

[Brian]

That looks like an HP logo at the top.

 

[Sci]

Hi Gang,

Does anyone know if the United Federation of Planets building in Paris is ever pictured? Like the front of the building? I'm going to get out my copy of Voyage Home, where I thought we saw maybe the inside of the UFP in Paris??. Does anyone know if it was featured in any of the shows instead? For some reason I thought maybe it was.

Hope everyone had a great New year!

Squid

Well, we see *a* building in Paris in establishing shots that occur shortly before the camera deposits us in the President's office, but that's not a guarantee that that building was supposed to be the Federation building. The West Wing used to do the occasional establishing shot of the Washington Monument before cutting to the interior of the West Wing of the White House, after all -- doesn't mean that the Barlet Administration had set up shop inside the Washington Monument.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home seemed to establish a building in San Francisco that served as the meeting place for the Federation Council. The VOY episode "In the Flesh" referenced this building, too. Personally, I think it looks like a warehouse someone built on a large parking lot.

The novels have chosen to creativity re-interpret that whole thing. Calling the Federation capitol the Palais de la Concorde, the Federation Council is presumed to normally meet on the first floor of the cylindrical 15-story building, with floors three through eleven being dedicated to Council offices, Floor Twelve being dedicated to a state dining room, and Flours Thirteen and Fourteen being dedicated to the Presidential staff and Cabinet offices, and Floor Fifteen given over to the Presidential Office, an adjoining study, two adjoining meeting rooms, and a waiting room.

Memory Beta assumes that the building seen in establishing shots of "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost" is the Palais. I don't agree with that because, amongst other problems, it's obviously an establishing shot taken in a different part of Paris than the Place de la Concode, where the Palais is supposed to have been built, and it doesn't match the description of the Palais giving in the novels. I'm waiting for the day the Palais appears on a book cover or in a comic.

ETA:

If you're interested, the novel that the Palais de la Concorde appears most prominently in is Star Trek: Articles of the Federation by Keith R.A. DeCandido, which follows the first year in office for newly-elected Federation President Nanietta Bacco.

The Palais was first established in 2004's TNG novel Star Trek: A Time to Kill by David Mack and its companion piece, Star Trek: A Time to Heal. It has also appeared in Star Trek: A Time for War, A Time for Peace, and Star Trek: Destiny Books I through III by David Mack. It will also feature in the upcoming Star Trek: A Singular Destiny by DeCandido.

 

[Timo]

...Of course, a 24th century government might be extensively decentralized, or omnicentralized: the 10:00 Council meeting might take place in San Francisco for the convenience of directly accessing Starfleet resources, while the 12:30 meeting might be in Paris for the ambience, with a quick lunch-with-a-view in Tibet in between, after which the Subcommittee for Lunacy would do its daily meeting at New Berlin while the Subcommittee for Solid Rationality would prefer the Old Berlin (ca. 1875, as faithfully reproduced on the holohalls of downtown Kiev). And half the delegates would only be present virtually anyway.

The idea of a capital planet makes some sense, considering the availability of instant communications but not of instant interplanetary let alone interstellar travel. The idea of a capital city is a bit less sensible, as instant planetwide travel is readily available. And the idea of a capital building might sound ridiculous to our TNG era heroes - but perhaps the ridicule would be good-natured and the traditionalist approach would be tolerated.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TheGodBen]

The idea that the entire UFP government would be in one building is very stupid, one well aimed torpedo from the Romulans and suddenly the UFP's head has been cut off. Just look at the damage the Breen caused to Starfleet Command during the Dominion War.

The president and the council would have to be in different buildings if not different cities entirely. I'm sure that there are weapons in the future that could wipe out all life in Paris in an instant, that is not a risk that you would want to take with an empire as vast as the Federation.

 

[Squid]

Hi Sci, Timo, Brian and GodBen! Thanks so much for you help. I have to agree with Sci that it can't be established with total certainty that what we are seeing, especially in "Paradise Lost" is in fact a picture of the UFP in Paris. However, the fact that they present us with this picture every time they want us to know that the characters are at the UFP headquarters in Paris is enough to at least suggest that it is in fact the UFP Paris headquarters. Either way, I knew I saw that picture somewhere ("Paradise Lost") but couldn't remember what series. I was frittering away time in Wiki looking up UFP info when all I had to do in Memory Alpha was type in Paris - lol! Thanks GodBen for the easy directions! Squid

 

[Sci]

The idea of a capital planet makes some sense, considering the availability of instant communications but not of instant interplanetary let alone interstellar travel. The idea of a capital city is a bit less sensible, as instant planetwide travel is readily available.

But it may well end up being preserved out of cultural bias.

And the idea of a capital building might sound ridiculous to our TNG era heroes - but perhaps the ridicule would be good-natured and the traditionalist approach would be tolerated.

*shrugs* I dunno. The novels have the Palais and I'm happy with it.

I would note, however, that the word you're looking for is not "capital building," but, rather, "capitol," which means a building that the government meets in. (Calling a capitol a "capitol building" is as redundant as calling an Automated Teller Machine an ATM Machine.)

 

[Gotham Central]

A quick note on the structure seen in ST:IV, I've always just assumed that that was simply Starfleet Headquarters. There is nothing in the movie to suggest that it is home to the Federation. In fact every symbol that you see depicts the Federation seal with along with the words Starfleet Headquarters.

It makes far more sense that the committee sessions that we saw take place there were the equavalent of the Security Council or the Federation equavalent of the Senate Armed Services Committee. It makes even more sense when you take into consideration the number of people sitting in that chamber wearing Starfleet uniforms (whould would federation council members be in uniforms). Plus the fact that there were not nearly enough people in that chamber for it to be representative of the entire Federation Council.

 

[Sci]

A quick note on the structure seen in ST:IV, I've always just assumed that that was simply Starfleet Headquarters. There is nothing in the movie to suggest that it is home to the Federation. In fact every symbol that you see depicts the Federation seal with along with the words Starfleet Headquarters.

It makes far more sense that the committee sessions that we saw take place there were the equavalent of the Security Council or the Federation equavalent of the Senate Armed Services Committee. It makes even more sense when you take into consideration the number of people sitting in that chamber wearing Starfleet uniforms (whould would federation council members be in uniforms). Plus the fact that there were not nearly enough people in that chamber for it to be representative of the entire Federation Council.

I'm right there with you, but that doesn't mean that the original creative intent wasn't for it to be the Federation Council and its building.

Having said that, you nicely articulated a number of problems with how they depicted that, so I'm happy to interpret that scene another way.

Give me the Palais de la Concorde any day of the week!

 

[Timo]

I would note, however, that the word you're looking for is not "capital building," but, rather, "capitol," which means a building that the government meets in. (Calling a capitol a "capitol building" is as redundant as calling an Automated Teller Machine an ATM Machine.)

Well, that was the very impression I was going for. "Capital building" would be in the same continuum with "capital planet" and "capital city", while "capitol" would be of different form - not to mention an essentially American expression, not really applicable to government buildings elsewhere.

The idea of a capital building as a symbol is fine and well, but the idea of any actual governing taking place therein is a bit difficult to swallow... Then again, something as vast, wide-flung and diverse as the UFP might need a symbolic government in a symbolic building even if none of the actual governing could be crammed within those confining walls and heads.

Timo Saloniemi