Ron Jones' "Assassination"...

[number6]

Atmospheric "wallpaper" scores became a prevailing trend in Hollywood at that time. Ron Jones' scores sounded pretty dated, imo. His style was much more suited to animated sitcom, as evidenced by his scores for Family Guy. Aparently he was also very temperamental and did not take direction well. That was one of many reasons he was fired from TNG.

In refutation of the former I would point to his work on the Binar's episode and "Best of Both Worlds" in particular.

And if by "not taking direction well" you mean not giving in and turning out audio pablum like King B wanted, then Viva la Revolucione!

Not taking direction well can mean many things. I work in the music/audio field. I have for my entire adult life. There are a lot of inflexible, temperamental people in my field. I am sure if Jones and Berman didn't see eye to eye for whatever creative reason, and Jones wasn't flexible, Jones wouldn't be working there for long.

I'm not a fan of his work, but then I found most 80's-90's musical scores for TV terribly bland. That trend was not unique to Berman or Star Trek.

You can blame Berman for rain being wet, but I don't believe Jones' work (or attitude, as I've seen in interviews) made him indispensible.

 

[QuasarVM]

Sonic wallpaper rules the day.

I have yet to hear good TV soundtrack music since, oh...the early 90's...

Joe LoDuca was a great composer...but he's one of the last good ones I can recall.

Try Murray Gold. LoDuca's best tracks were The Gauntlet, The Ladder Fight and of course all the angelic fighting from Herc and Xena's Dahak arc.

But Murray Gold. Wow. See if you can download or get the tracks: "Doomsday", "The Long and Endless Dalek Night", "The Cybermen", "A Dazzling End" and you'll know sonic wallpaper sucks.

And I always thought Star Trek scores since Jones had become Holst's "Mars, Bringer of War" only never reaching its crescendo. Listen to it carefully, and I swear you hear NextGen, DS9 and Voyager.

Battlestar's music is alternately good and crap. Bear McCreary gave a live performance recently in CA and performed all the tracks that suck. His good tracks: "The Battle", "The Storm and the Dead", "Prelude to War", "Passacaglia", "Storming New Caprica".

And Ron Jones' work was great on Duck Tales. Anyone can tell you the best track on any Trek tv show is "Borg Engaged". Followed up by the Suite from Way of the Warrior. The Inner Light Theme, frankly, sucks. I don't find it moving, and I find the score to Tin Man to sound cheap and tinny.

And while I'm on about Trek soundtracks, when the hell am I going to get my Suite from Elaan of Troyius and Suite from The Enterprise Incident?

Actually, I do recall being impressed with Dr. Who's scores lately...

LoDuca did some great work on Xena and Herc...it seemed almost 60's-ish in style. Very thematic in a TOS kind of way.

Aw, man...you and me both are waiting for that Elaan and Incident score! But there's been so much TOS music that hasn't been released on a CD...

1. The music from Who Mourns for Adonais?
2. Spock's Brain (A great score even if the episode left much to be desired. ST: Phase II got it's hands on the music and they tracked some of it into the latest episode).
3. Elaan
4. Enterprise Incident

 

[TheGodBen]

But Murray Gold. Wow. See if you can download or get the tracks: "Doomsday", "The Long and Endless Dalek Night", "The Cybermen", "A Dazzling End" and you'll know sonic wallpaper sucks.

I only watched the first season of nuWho and the music always bothered me for some reason. I decided to listen to those four tracks and I finally figured out what it is; all the non-synthesised instruments have an echo on them like they were recorded in a theatre, and it sounds slightly amateurish. If they were recorded normally then I would definitely consider them to be epic, but the way they are now doesn't seem to gel correctly with what is happening on-screen.

 

[Sci]

But Murray Gold. Wow. See if you can download or get the tracks: "Doomsday", "The Long and Endless Dalek Night", "The Cybermen", "A Dazzling End" and you'll know sonic wallpaper sucks.

I only watched the first season of nuWho and the music always bothered me for some reason. I decided to listen to those four tracks and I finally figured out what it is; all the non-synthesised instruments have an echo on them like they were recorded in a theatre, and it sounds slightly amateurish. If they were recorded normally then I would definitely consider them to be epic, but the way they are now doesn't seem to gel correctly with what is happening on-screen.

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

[swaaye]

Just a little heads up for those who aren't aware of this little fact: Jones was a major part of the composition of the soundtrack for the PC game StarFleet Academy. It is heavily inspired by his TNG work. May be the best aspect of the game.

I believe he also worked on StarFleet Command. I didn't play that one though so can't comment on it.

 

[Harvey]

He did compose the score for Starfleet Command as well (part one). It's a decent score, that was made available (in MP3 form) on a bonus disc that was released with the second game, I believe. I have that lying around somewhere....

 

[TheGodBen]

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

A Dazzling End

It is an excellent little piece, I can best describe it as instruments dancing, Murray Gold appears to be an excellent composer. But it sounds like a live performance, at the end I half expect an audience to start clapping.

Back when I watched the first season of nuWho I just never felt like the music fit in correctly, it sounded like it came from another plane of existence. If you cut out the slight reverberation that is present on some of the instruments then it would be an excellent score.

He did compose the score for Starfleet Command as well (part one). It's a decent score, that was made available (in MP3 form) on a bonus disc that was released with the second game, I believe. I have that lying around somewhere....

I loved the score from that game, I had no idea it was Jones who composed it! Thanks for the info.

 

[Christopher]

But it sounds like a live performance, at the end I half expect an audience to start clapping.

Can't imagine how that's a bad thing.

 

[TheGodBen]

But it sounds like a live performance, at the end I half expect an audience to start clapping.

Can't imagine how that's a bad thing.

Like I said, it sounds like it is coming from another plane of existence. If the scene is in an theatre then the music would work, but if the scene is taking place in a normal room or in corridors or while they are outside then the music doesn't fit what is happening on-screen.

"The Shape of Things to Come" on the BSG soundtrack has a slight reverb to it like as if it is being recorded live in an opera house, and that works because during that scene Baltar and Six were walking through an opera house.

 

[Christopher]

Like I said, it sounds like it is coming from another plane of existence. If the scene is in an theatre then the music would work, but if the scene is taking place in a normal room or in corridors or while they are outside then the music doesn't fit what is happening on-screen.

I guarantee you, the acoustics of a modern recording studio sound nothing like the acoustics of a normal room, corridor, or outdoors location, so by that standard, background music never "fits." Besides, it's not like the music is actually supposed to exist as part of the ambient sound of the environment, with the characters hearing it (unless it's actually diegetic, like dance music or a song on the radio -- and even diegetic music or "live" singing in a show or movie is always a dubbed track recorded in a studio, so it wouldn't match the real acoustics of the environment anyway). So what difference does it make whether it "fits" the environment?

 

[TheGodBen]

It matters to me, it just doesn't sound right to my ear. Like I said, the music itself is very good I just always had trouble accepting it as part of the show. I had the same problem with the final season of Enterprise, the music just never seemed to fit in there either.

The best way I can think to describe it is this; my father feels uneasy when he sees blue and yellow together. He is fine looking at the colour blue, and he is fine looking at the colour yellow, but put them side by side and it doesn't feel right to him.

The Doctor Who music sounds good, the show looks good visually, but when put together I get an uneasy feeling that they don't work. I'm not saying that they don't work for everybody, just that they don't work for me.

 

[number6]

Like I said, it sounds like it is coming from another plane of existence. If the scene is in an theatre then the music would work, but if the scene is taking place in a normal room or in corridors or while they are outside then the music doesn't fit what is happening on-screen.

I guarantee you, the acoustics of a modern recording studio sound nothing like the acoustics of a normal room, corridor, or outdoors location, so by that standard, background music never "fits." Besides, it's not like the music is actually supposed to exist as part of the ambient sound of the environment, with the characters hearing it (unless it's actually diegetic, like dance music or a song on the radio -- and even diegetic music or "live" singing in a show or movie is always a dubbed track recorded in a studio, so it wouldn't match the real acoustics of the environment anyway). So what difference does it make whether it "fits" the environment?

There are many acoustic choices in a recording environment. Some people prefer a dry neutral recording environment, while others prefer to capture the space they are recording in. There is more or less a "standard" in studio acoustics in Hollywood, but then there are others who prefer recording in concert halls and cathedrals. With more tools available then ever, the choice of environments is only limited by the mind of the engineer and the needs of the project. There is also the phenomenon of listening to a mix intended for surround on television speakers, or something recorded in 2-channel stereo reprocessed for 5.1. There is no real global standard for this as not all productions are set up to do surround mixes even now. What you are discussing musically could easily fall into that conundrum.

The fact that some people are mixing for mp3 player earbuds instead of huge speaker systems muddies that stream even further.

 

[Sci]

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

A Dazzling End

It is an excellent little piece, I can best describe it as instruments dancing, Murray Gold appears to be an excellent composer. But it sounds like a live performance, at the end I half expect an audience to start clapping.

Back when I watched the first season of nuWho I just never felt like the music fit in correctly, it sounded like it came from another plane of existence. If you cut out the slight reverberation that is present on some of the instruments then it would be an excellent score.

I still have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I don't hear any reverb and couldn't tell you at all where it was recorded, and all the music fits the shows that I've seen (and I've seen every DW episode from "Rose" to "The Next Doctor").

And I also have found Gold's work to be incredibly moving and to add a GREAT DEAL to DW, especially his post-S1 work. The score to "The Girl in the Fireplace" was atmospheric and heartbreaking; the score to "Doomsday" was brilliantly haunting. "The Doctor's Theme" and "Rose's Theme" perfectly capture their characters; the score for "Evolution of the Daleks" was the best thing about that episode; "The Futurekind," "Yana," "The Master Vainglorious," "Marth's Quest," "Martha Triumphant," and "This Is Gallifrey: Our Childhood, Our Home," formed their own frickin' symphony to accompany S3's three-part finale. Etc.

 

[Christopher]

I have mixed feelings about Murray Gold's work. It's gorgeous, but sometimes a little too gorgeous, too over-the-top and melodramatic. And although I'm fond of melodic music and leitmotifs, and his are excellent, he overuses them in a way that gets a bit predictable -- every time there's a major Doctor moment you hear the Doctor theme, every time Martha shows up you hear Martha's theme, every time Donna does something you hear Donna's theme, every time there's something Time Lordy you hear "Flavia's Theme" or whatever, etc. He gives us too much of a good thing.

 

[TheGodBen]

I still have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I don't hear any reverb and couldn't tell you at all where it was recorded, and all the music fits the shows that I've seen (and I've seen every DW episode from "Rose" to "The Next Doctor").

And I also have found Gold's work to be incredibly moving and to add a GREAT DEAL to DW, especially his post-S1 work. The score to "The Girl in the Fireplace" was atmospheric and heartbreaking; the score to "Doomsday" was brilliantly haunting. "The Doctor's Theme" and "Rose's Theme" perfectly capture their characters; the score for "Evolution of the Daleks" was the best thing about that episode; "The Futurekind," "Yana," "The Master Vainglorious," "Marth's Quest," "Martha Triumphant," and "This Is Gallifrey: Our Childhood, Our Home," formed their own frickin' symphony to accompany S3's three-part finale. Etc.

Not once did I criticise his work, I said that I liked it. All I'm saying is that when I hear it while watching the show it doesn't quite gel for me. You enjoy it? Good for you. Me? There's a slight reverberation that I find irritating when watching the show. As an individual track I like it quite a lot.

 

[DWF]

I have mixed feelings about Murray Gold's work. It's gorgeous, but sometimes a little too gorgeous, too over-the-top and melodramatic. And although I'm fond of melodic music and leitmotifs, and his are excellent, he overuses them in a way that gets a bit predictable -- every time there's a major Doctor moment you hear the Doctor theme, every time Martha shows up you hear Martha's theme, every time Donna does something you hear Donna's theme, every time there's something Time Lordy you hear "Flavia's Theme" or whatever, etc. He gives us too much of a good thing.

Can't imagine how that's a bad thing.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Rick Berman talking about music always reminds me of the guy from Amadeus who tells Mozart he's playing too many notes.

My favorite composer from the 90s has to be David Kurtz, who did most of the Alien Nation series and movie series. Polar opposite to Berman's sonic droning. He'd do weird percussion things, low-key atmospheric things, unrestrained bombastic epic things, even used vocals. I always thought he would have done a great job on Trek.

 

[QuasarVM]

One of my favorite composers for TV was the late Barry Gray who did the music for Space:1999 (Season 1 only) and the other Gerry Anderson shows...

That guy was brilliant!

 

[Doik]

It may have been a slow death, but when Rick Berman fired Ron Jones, it underlined that he was a anything but a creative producer. Gene Rodenberry would never have fired someone for being creative and temperamental.

Just watch and listen to the Enterprise flying into the spacedock in the episode "11001001." That was the majesty of Star Trek, underlined by Ron Jones.

Just listen to the melody of the Traveller in "Where No One has Gone Before". That was the stylistic magic of Star Trek underlined by Ron Jones.

Just listen to the closing of "Q Who?" That was the dramatic power of Star Trek underlined by Ron Jones.

He did Klingon themes, Romulan themes, Borg themes. It was everything that made Star Trek magical.

When Berman sacked Jones, he condemned Trek to a slow stylistic death. In my mind, Jay Chattaway's "noise" scores ruined episodes like "Chain of Command" which could have won an Emmy were it not for that horrendous screeching "sonic wallpaper" of his. How does a composer go to work everyday and do the same thing?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I don't have a whole lot to contribute to this thread other than my belief that the best TV composer out there is Murray Gold, whose work for Doctor Who is consistently amazing.

I'm ambivalent on Gold. My problem is not his creativity with is, as you say, "amazing." However, Gold is, in some ways, worse than James Horner. Horner recycles his motifs, so his music all sounds alike. Gold, however, recycles his cues, and covers that with brutal edits. I don't know Gold's working practice, but it sounds like he has a single recording session, so rather than write music for everything, he just writes a bunch of music to be used and reused.