Law School Prep Advice

[Holdfast]

I don't see anything that really distinguishes it from any other profession in most regards. I understand there's a risk of depression and substance abuse, but that's just life. I also understand there's not a huge chance for on the job satisfaction, but that's true for most jobs.

No.

No, it isn't.

If you find the job/lifestyle that's right for you, the odds are much better.

That MAY be law for you, but I don't get the vibe that you really understand what law is all about, and therefore I don't know how you're judging it. Mind you, it's probably fair to say that most people end up in a job that isn't suited to them at some point in their life and then it's a challenge to get out of it. I'm not immune to that at all but you know what, if you find it happening to you, make changes. Don't stay in the same rut. But I guess sometimes you just have to do it, to get it out of your system. So go do law and I hope you enjoy it and it's suited to you. But research it some more first.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Major in engineering, save yourself a lot of time, money and abuse of your liver, and give yourself a chance to lead a fulfilling life.

Well, if you go to my University, you could pretty much expect that type of life as an engineering major (I think you need something like two years at the University with an almost 4.0 to get accepted into the engineering program if you're lucky).

The thing about law school that is very helpful is make sure it's what you want to do (which the doom and gloom in this thread is a good way to test your resolve). Right now, there's very little else I want to do besides become a lawyer. The idea of teaching history appeals to me somewhat, but nowhere near as much. I've pretty much spent my last 3 years focusing my life towards going to law school. If I hate it, I'm screwed. But I'd pretty much be screwed either way. I do like the law and I like certain aspects of being a lawyer (by this, I mean there are areas of law that I have no interest in and would rather starve to death than take those jobs). Unfortunately, that pretty much means I'll starve to death either way, since those jobs are the ones everybody thinks about as far as getting the big bucks (the big sell your soul corporate law types). It's actually kinda ironic, since I'm in the best area in the country for corporate law, but it's the area I have the least interest in.

Yes, there are too many lawyers. But, if you're prepared to persevere, don't let that interfere with your plans (if not, then, obviously, pick something else). Keep in mind that lawschool does act as a way to prevent lawyers (they have a mandatory bell curve where, in some places, half the school is required to fail). Getting through lawschool might be difficult in itself.

 

[Nobody]

Getting through law school depends on where you go. At some schools (including T1 and T2 schools) once you're in, they aren't gonna fail you. They want you there, they like you there. Other schools make it their mission to fail you. So, make sure you know what school you're going to -- and sometimes the school that bends over backwards to keep you in, isn't the best one.

Just do a ton of research. Seriously think of why. Either way, you're in for a shock. Just make sure you want the shock. I was like Alidor...Jinglebell and I'm still telling you not to go. You really gotta fuckin' want it and understand why you want it.

Also, remember, law school is about two things: 1) Learning to "think like a lawyer" and 2) Passing the bar. After that, what you learn in school has little to no relationship to the actual practice of law.


-nobody

 

[Alpha Romeo]

I would like to go for a few reasons really: I like the idea of law, I like analysis and detail, I want to help as many people as I can in life (this isn't specific to law, obviously, but I think with my abilities it could very well be a good fit), and I think it'd be a good fit.

I'm always willing to hear other ideas. My current plan is to get law degree and perhaps an MBA dual degree (for backup purposes).

Re-read my earlier, long post about reasons not to go to law school.

Also, to reiterate: Don't go, there are no jobs and you will die alone.

Really, really don't go if your GPA isn't sterling and you don't have a decent shot at a 165+ on the LSAT. If you can't get into a T1 school, it's not worth it. Even if you can get into a T1 school and excel, it's still probably not worth it. Lawyers have (I believe) the second-highest rate of clinical depression across the spectrum of professions, they're in the top five in rate of substance abuse, it is a job that by definition will involve long hours poring over mind-numbing documents and you will likely never feel a sense of fulfillment in what you do, unless you do a ton of pro bono work, in which case you'll possibly help a person here or there, but you'll be broke and eventually out of a job and you will die alone.

Major in engineering, save yourself a lot of time, money and abuse of your liver, and give yourself a chance to lead a fulfilling life.

Sorry from experience this is bullshit. I didn't go to a top tier law school like Harvard.

I don't have depression, nor do I spend all my hours in the office. Sure I work hard, but I enjoy what I do. I also have some pretty good hobbies that keep me sane. It's all in the job you fins and whether you actually enjoy where you're working.

As for the dying alone thing, that's complete crap. Where you get this shit I don't know.

 

[Nobody]

From what I've been told by practicing lawyers, where your degree is from and GPA only matter for your first job. Then it's all about experience, like every other field.

Alpha, what kind of law do you practice?


-nobody

 

[Alpha Romeo]

From what I've been told by practicing lawyers, where your degree is from and GPA only matter for your first job. Then it's all about experience, like every other field.

Alpha, what kind of law do you practice?


-nobody

That's 100% right. I was only asked about my grades at my first job interview. After that, no one really cared.

I do insurance defense, primarily toxic torts and complex litigation.

 

[Nobody]

Ew, you said torts. Away demon!



-nobody

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Ew, you said torts. Away demon!



-nobody

Oh don't be such a wuss. Torts is one of the easier law school classes.

 

[Nobody]

I just finished my second semester, so I haven't experienced the ugly ones yet.



-nobody

 

[Michael Chris]

Oh, and I was curious for those that are practicing: what field are you mainly involved in?

 

[Docbrown777]

I currently work in the legal field. Thank God not as a lawyer. I became a paralegal after college to see if I would really want to become a lawyer.

The legal life sucks and sucks a whole bunch. I've done this for two years now and I have yet to meet a lawyer that I can look at and say, "that's what I want to be 20 - 30 years from now." That doesn't mean I think lawyers are jerks. On the contrary I know a couple that are really nice great guys but I don't want their lives. They are over worked and over stressed people. They work so much they destroy their marriages (this one lawyer is a great guy but he is never home so his wife of only two years left him.), get stressed out and have mood swings (again another guy that is normally a great guy will get stressed out like crazy and slam stuff in his off as he's trying to type something up but has computer related issues which lead to this scary outbursts. He doesn't yell at people directly just slams stuff around in his office). Then of course you have the lawyers that are self centered jerks who yell at people and don't seem to care about anyone but themselves.

Point is, it really is not an enjoyable profession. The hours are long, at any one time there are a bunch of cases and deadlines going on and you have to keep track of all of this at once. It is a constant juggling process.

Here is what I consider the worst part. Law is not a job you can walk away from at the end of the day. You are always thinking about some case and what needs to be done the next day. If you go on vacation you are going to get phone calls from the office asking about something, responding to emails on your blackberry etc. We had this lawyer try and go on a mission trip in Mexico for a week and he had to wake up really early every morning and get to a computer to read through and respond to emails and faxes we sent the day before trying to keep him up to date on a case. Another lawyer left to go on a cruise and he took a big stack of timesheets with him (so he could work on cases and keep track of his billable hours WHILE ON VACATION!!) That is not the life I would ever want.

Here's a law school joke. A law school grad tells his friend that he just got offered a six figure job with a big name law firm. The friend responds, "Oh, so your getting paid 10 dollars and hour!" Even if you make the big money at a big firm they work their young lawyers to death. The hours are insane and stressful.

Then there is just the problem that as much of a joke as it has become there really are too many lawyers out there. The pay is not nearly what it used to be. We have plenty of lawyers. We do not need more. We could use more people in the science and medical fields. Law? No. Sorry we're full.

One of the smartest things I ever did was not go to law school. For a short time I thought it was a mistake but this is most certainly not the life I want. Luckily I was able to discover this before I spent a tone of money on law school. A lot of people don't discover this until after they graduate.

Only problem I have now is trying to deflect comments from the lawyers I work with saying that I should go to law school. "Hey Docbrown777 you should really look into law school."

"Uh yeah, I'm thinking about it..."

edit: The firm I'm at does darn near everything. We do mostly litigation. I've worked on a lot of construction law related cases (we represent a big time contractor in the Dallas area), contract writing, employment law, some personal injury, a tiny bit of collections stuff(pay or we'll sue you) and even a big ugly divorce case (a client was getting divorced and said he wanted us to handle it so we kept it in house even though we don't do family law. Hired a co-counsel though that was familiar with some family law)

 

[Loupjo]

It all depends on what you want to do in life. I've studied law but never with the intention to become a lawyer. Well I've thought about becoming a lawyer but I've never really wanted to so I didn't take a bar examination. I've worked in academic and paralegal jobs and now work as a legal consultant. Next to that I also teach at ... law school. I really like academics and enjoy the work there. It's a good combination with being an independent legal consultant. I am specialised in maritime law, international contract law and international private law.

I really enjoyed my law studies. That was a very good experience. Whether or not you should study it all depends on what you want to achieve. That's always the key thing.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

I currently work in the legal field. Thank God not as a lawyer. I became a paralegal after college to see if I would really want to become a lawyer.

The legal life sucks and sucks a whole bunch. I've done this for two years now and I have yet to meet a lawyer that I can look at and say, "that's what I want to be 20 - 30 years from now." That doesn't mean I think lawyers are jerks. On the contrary I know a couple that are really nice great guys but I don't want their lives. They are over worked and over stressed people. They work so much they destroy their marriages (this one lawyer is a great guy but he is never home so his wife of only two years left him.), get stressed out and have mood swings (again another guy that is normally a great guy will get stressed out like crazy and slam stuff in his off as he's trying to type something up but has computer related issues which lead to this scary outbursts. He doesn't yell at people directly just slams stuff around in his office). Then of course you have the lawyers that are self centered jerks who yell at people and don't seem to care about anyone but themselves.

Point is, it really is not an enjoyable profession. The hours are long, at any one time there are a bunch of cases and deadlines going on and you have to keep track of all of this at once. It is a constant juggling process.

Here is what I consider the worst part. Law is not a job you can walk away from at the end of the day. You are always thinking about some case and what needs to be done the next day. If you go on vacation you are going to get phone calls from the office asking about something, responding to emails on your blackberry etc. We had this lawyer try and go on a mission trip in Mexico for a week and he had to wake up really early every morning and get to a computer to read through and respond to emails and faxes we sent the day before trying to keep him up to date on a case. Another lawyer left to go on a cruise and he took a big stack of timesheets with him (so he could work on cases and keep track of his billable hours WHILE ON VACATION!!) That is not the life I would ever want.

Here's a law school joke. A law school grad tells his friend that he just got offered a six figure job with a big name law firm. The friend responds, "Oh, so your getting paid 10 dollars and hour!" Even if you make the big money at a big firm they work their young lawyers to death. The hours are insane and stressful.

Then there is just the problem that as much of a joke as it has become there really are too many lawyers out there. The pay is not nearly what it used to be. We have plenty of lawyers. We do not need more. We could use more people in the science and medical fields. Law? No. Sorry we're full.

One of the smartest things I ever did was not go to law school. For a short time I thought it was a mistake but this is most certainly not the life I want. Luckily I was able to discover this before I spent a tone of money on law school. A lot of people don't discover this until after they graduate.

Only problem I have now is trying to deflect comments from the lawyers I work with saying that I should go to law school. "Hey Docbrown777 you should really look into law school."

"Uh yeah, I'm thinking about it..."

edit: The firm I'm at does darn near everything. We do mostly litigation. I've worked on a lot of construction law related cases (we represent a big time contractor in the Dallas area), contract writing, employment law, some personal injury, a tiny bit of collections stuff(pay or we'll sue you) and even a big ugly divorce case (a client was getting divorced and said he wanted us to handle it so we kept it in house even though we don't do family law. Hired a co-counsel though that was familiar with some family law)

Meh...all depends on wether you let it run your life. I have no intention of ruining my marriage or family because of a job. Its not worth it.

 

[bluedana]

Oh, for heaven's sake. I'm sorry, but most of the answers in this thread are ridiculous. If you have a desire to study law, CL, go ahead and try for it. There's no rule (or law) that says you have to become a corporate slave at the end of it. Many of the people I went to law school with are not practicing lawyers. One is getting ready to become President of the United States. Not a bad career path, that.

Law school gives you the tools to practice, but it doesn't teach you how to be a lawyer. It does teach you how to read and think critically, which is a useful skill to have in many professions. While I'm a practicing lawyer (a prosecutor), my husband is a minister. We each use our learned skills in different ways. We're very busy, somewhat stressed (we have three kids) and very good and very satisfied with our careers.

As to law school prep: Yes, LSAT practice is important. Do keep your GPA high - not just for the sake of your transcript, but also to keep honing your study skills. Write A LOT. If you're still in school, take courses that require a lot of expositive writing, whatever the topic is. This skill is what will get you over in your exams. Take an undergraduate law course if you can. Read A LOT - histories, biographies, anything that will help you critically evaluate issues. Histories are also good for grounding you contextually for constitutional law courses especially.

The first year of law school sucks. Period. Nobody is ever ready for it, and professors know it and capitalize on it. Once you get through your 1L exams, though, it gets much, much better. You can up the odds of getting some enjoyment of that first year if you commit yourself to learning how to read closely, write clearly, and analyze logically.

I hope this helps.

 

[John Picard]

Just because you have a Law degree doesn't mean you have to be a litigator. Everyone thinks that's all lawyers do, but it's not true.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Oh, for heaven's sake. I'm sorry, but most of the answers in this thread are ridiculous. If you have a desire to study law, CL, go ahead and try for it. There's no rule (or law) that says you have to become a corporate slave at the end of it. Many of the people I went to law school with are not practicing lawyers. One is getting ready to become President of the United States. Not a bad career path, that.

Law school gives you the tools to practice, but it doesn't teach you how to be a lawyer. It does teach you how to read and think critically, which is a useful skill to have in many professions. While I'm a practicing lawyer (a prosecutor), my husband is a minister. We each use our learned skills in different ways. We're very busy, somewhat stressed (we have three kids) and very good and very satisfied with our careers.

As to law school prep: Yes, LSAT practice is important. Do keep your GPA high - not just for the sake of your transcript, but also to keep honing your study skills. Write A LOT. If you're still in school, take courses that require a lot of expositive writing, whatever the topic is. This skill is what will get you over in your exams. Take an undergraduate law course if you can. Read A LOT - histories, biographies, anything that will help you critically evaluate issues. Histories are also good for grounding you contextually for constitutional law courses especially.

The first year of law school sucks. Period. Nobody is ever ready for it, and professors know it and capitalize on it. Once you get through your 1L exams, though, it gets much, much better. You can up the odds of getting some enjoyment of that first year if you commit yourself to learning how to read closely, write clearly, and analyze logically.

I hope this helps.

Well said!@!!

 

[Nobody]

Re: Writing

If you're a english major -- or do any sort of creative writing for a hobby -- prepare to cringe every time you write an essay for law school. It's so counterintuitive to what you want to do, your body will physically fight you as you write. However, you can fight the man (or woman in my case) and find subtle ways to be creative: how many alliterations you can fit into a paragraph, how to work in Beatles lyrics into the answers or be very descriptive in terms of how X meets element Y (describing the construction of a sandwich and the path it takes through the digestive system to disprove an element in common law burglary got me some decent points, and a chuckle from my professor). Some people might say "if you put as much energy into your classwork as you do your whimisical essays, you could excel." Don't listen to them, they're just bitter engineering majors who are jealous they don't know Beatles lyrics off the top of their head and still have trouble understanding alliteration. Though you should do what bluedana says too.

Also, bluedana, don't lie, we know one of your law school people isn't preparing to become POTUS. We know you're the one prepping in the transition office to take over the free world.


-nobody

 

[Michael Chris]

I'm fairly good at no nonsense and concise writing, how would that compare to the writing required of both law school and the legal profession?

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Re: Writing

If you're a english major -- or do any sort of creative writing for a hobby -- prepare to cringe every time you write an essay for law school. It's so counterintuitive to what you want to do, your body will physically fight you as you write. However, you can fight the man (or woman in my case) and find subtle ways to be creative: how many alliterations you can fit into a paragraph, how to work in Beatles lyrics into the answers or be very descriptive in terms of how X meets element Y (describing the construction of a sandwich and the path it takes through the digestive system to disprove an element in common law burglary got me some decent points, and a chuckle from my professor). Some people might say "if you put as much energy into your classwork as you do your whimisical essays, you could excel." Don't listen to them, they're just bitter engineering majors who are jealous they don't know Beatles lyrics off the top of their head and still have trouble understanding alliteration. Though you should do what bluedana says too.

Also, bluedana, don't lie, we know one of your law school people isn't preparing to become POTUS. We know you're the one prepping in the transition office to take over the free world.


-nobody

I'd break this stupid habit now if I were you. Or you'll be getting slammed when you get out of school for having a crappy writing style.

 

[Nobody]

I know. I'm aware of the difference (having drafted a few things for a real law practice) and know how to switch it on and off. Regardless, in school, quality and accuracy always comes before anything else. It's still possible to integrate stuff like that and maintain quality (at least for school). Though, I've come across a few cases in our casebooks from judges that are pretty sarcastic, irreverent and hilarious (Cordas v. Peerless Transportation Co.) and those judges have done pretty good for themselves.



-nobody