Miranda Class - Original Design Intention

[DonIago]

Which is why ideally you _know_ the fields are going to fail and eject the pods, much as the warp core itself can be ejected.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

^Except they're not usually kept _deep_ within the ship...they're usually kept someplace where they can be quickly ejected if containment fails...at least that's my understanding...

Depends on your angle of attack. The pods are located on the lowest decks of the Engineering hull. From directly BELOW, they're relatively vulnerable. From most other angles, they have a substantial portion of the Engineering hull between them and any weapons or other impacts.

Contrast this with the "neck", where they are vulnerable from nearly ALL angles of attack capable of impacting the neck...

 

[DonIago]

^Granted.

 

[Vance]

On the other hand, from what we've seen in Trek, the moment the shields are down, it really doesn't matter sod-all where exactly anything is...

 

[darkwing_duck1]

On the other hand, from what we've seen in Trek, the moment the shields are down, it really doesn't matter sod-all where exactly anything is...

In that case, you'd better hope you are on the "hero ship" of the battle...

 

[Maurice]

Saavik says "Energize defense field", and they show the unused Intruder Alert diagram left over from TMP. She doesn't say deflectors.

Then what, exactly, is the 'defense field' supposed to be, when it's clearly shown to be part of the shield grid?

It's not clearly shown to be that. It's fuzzily shown that a diagram of deck 5 appears with the text INTRUDER ALERT at the top. People had decided it represents a shield grid, but it's no much thing. You can see the deck plan clearly in this TMP trailer, complete with flashing spot for the intruder location.

 

[Vance]

Wrong scene.

"Energize defense fields" - Saavik TWOK, followed up by the defense grid lighting up.

 

[Timo]

...But the graphics are the same.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twok/ch7/twok0433.jpg

Now, it may be perfectly sensible to activate intruder control fields, internal forcefields, extra SIFs and whatnot as part of the procedure, without activating the external combat shields - and this probably is what did and didn't happen, because Khan's beams cut the hull like butter. But for the intruder control system to actually indicate the presence of an intruder... Now that sounds like a malfunction.

Or perhaps "intruder alert" means "Alert! Personnel to intruder control positions!"?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MarianLH]

All "Intruder Alert" means is "we have no budget so we're reusing this graphic from TMP. Please don't look too closely."


Marian

 

[Maurice]

Wrong scene.

"Energize defense fields" - Saavik TWOK, followed up by the defense grid lighting up.

Nope, absolutely the right scene, as Timo pointed out. If you look at the profile elevation, you can see that only one deck of this supposed "grid" lights up.

 

[137th Gebirg]

This was my attempt several years ago, based on Jackill's stuff.

http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/heavyfrigate_miranda_prop.jpg

 

[Vance]

Wrong scene.

"Energize defense fields" - Saavik TWOK, followed up by the defense grid lighting up.

Nope, absolutely the right scene, as Timo pointed out. If you look at the profile elevation, you can see that only one deck of this supposed "grid" lights up.

... and thus why they didn't do crap against the Reliant.

 

[Data Holmes]

Wrong scene.

"Energize defense fields" - Saavik TWOK, followed up by the defense grid lighting up.

Nope, absolutely the right scene, as Timo pointed out. If you look at the profile elevation, you can see that only one deck of this supposed "grid" lights up.

... and thus why they didn't do crap against the Reliant.

I always took it that the "defense fields" which were "energized" were only raised around the "bridge" bubble, decks one, two, and three... This is why khan's torpedo shot at the bridge didn't blow them all to kingdom come. And it would make sense for such a defense on yellow alert, as a "basic defensive posture" before a red alert situation was called.

 

[Timo]

Torpedo shot at the bridge? I thought we at most saw a torpedo shot aimed quite a bit below the camera level - and the camera level need not be bridge level, either, since it shows no hint of saucer upper surface or anything. Probably the "forward view" setting of the viewscreen comes from a camera (or a virtual camera) located (or "located") at the bow of the saucer.

Perhaps "energize defense fields" means "bring defense fields to idle but don't raise them yet"? That way, "defense fields" could be a synonym to shields.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vance]

I always took it that the "defense fields" which were "energized" were only raised around the "bridge" bubble, decks one, two, and three... This is why khan's torpedo shot at the bridge didn't blow them all to kingdom come. And it would make sense for such a defense on yellow alert, as a "basic defensive posture" before a red alert situation was called.

Prime the shields, but not raise them? Makes sense for a yellow alert scenario, but it also conflicts with just outright raising the shields all over the rest of 'canon'. Granted, why 'energize defense shields' explicitly as a defense maneuver against another ship?

The other thought, even though the primary shields were down, the deflectors were, and that still managed to keep the ship from being destroyed outright by Kahn's first attack, like the layer of leather armor beneath plate.

 

[MarianLH]

Doesn't TMP have a line about "screens and shields", implying two layers of defense?


Marian

 

[Data Holmes]

Doesn't TMP have a line about "screens and shields", implying two layers of defense?


Marian

Yes... This was from a thread in Movies...

But to address your last point, there's stuff in GR's novelization or the phase 2 bible about a skinfield I think, and it is probably the 'forcefields up full' referenced in TMP, which is something separate from deflectors.

Yes, but the lines of dialog offer some clue. Decker refers to "screens and shields" Sulu points out "the new screens held" in a situation where the impact was on the "bubble", after checkov responded that "Force fields and Deflectors up full"...

So, we have "Screens and shields" referenced and "force fields and deflectors"...

If there was a internal consistency to the thinking behind the script, it is not that far of a thought to think that "a & b" speaking about two things, with interchangeable names would follow the same "a & b" order, so Screens would equal force fields and shields would equal deflectors...

And from sulu's saying "the new screens held" with the effects shot showing the plasma shot breaking around the "bubble" defense system, that the bubble is the screens or force fields, and the "skinfield" as you say, would be the shields or deflectors.

What say you?

 

[USS Mariner]

... but perhaps Mr. Probert might pop in and share his thoughts on it?

Aside from the clumsy joining of boxy-structure to saucer-structure, I always kinda liked the Miranda class ships but with one glaring mistake... the warp engines.

You see, they're mounted upside down. Visually, no one has seemed to notice it, but the original Richard Taylor designed warp engines were mounted at their bottoms, having a distinct inset power dome (maybe their equivalent of a carburetor?) on their tops, followed rearward by a curved covering which address specific components (as seen in the David Kimble cutaway). All of that is simply ignored by virtually 'unplugging' the pylon from the intended mount and jamming in a new pylon in the top. The logical acceptable solution would be to flip the warp engines (they don't know up from down in space) and mount them the way they were designed to be mounted.

Andrew-

An alternative solution would be to have the pylon wrap "around" the nacelle; forming a kind of "C" clamp on one side of the nacelle, with the power and control junk connecting at the bottom.

You could argue that is is already the case, but I wonder what it would look like when implied visually...

 

[Timo]

Prime the shields, but not raise them? Makes sense for a yellow alert scenario, but it also conflicts with just outright raising the shields all over the rest of 'canon'. Granted, why 'energize defense shields' explicitly as a defense maneuver against another ship?

Note that Kirk never gives the command "energize defense fields". It is merely part of the minutiae that Saavik rattles off at the command of "go to yellow alert" - something an overeager and wet-behind-pointed-ears junior officer in command of even more junior personnel might do until her CO tells her to knock it off and simply get the stuff done.

"Preheating" of shields, weapons and even sensors might be a standard element of alert situations, and indeed is sometimes described as such in the novels, but an experienced bridge crew would learn to do all the necessary warm-ups without explicit command.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[GodThingFormerly]

An alternative solution would be to have the pylon wrap "around" the nacelle; forming a kind of "C" clamp on one side of the nacelle, with the power and control junk connecting at the bottom.

Except the curvier the nacelle pylon the mechanically weaker and heavier the stucture would be in comparison to a straight pylon manufactured of the same materials to the same thickness. This is what pissed me off enormously about the Excelsior and the E-D, to say nothing of the Abramsprise.

TGT