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Order of Battle...

Never liked that they referred to the Jem'Hadar bugs as "fighters". I agree with Cyke101 that to me they are not fighters in the traditional sense whereas the attack fighters are. So that 300 attack fighters does not equal 300 Jem'Hadar 'fighters'.

The Jem'Hadar do use torpedoes, we had an episode where Quark had to disarm one that breached the hull and was poking into the ship's mess in I think it was Starship Down.
 
In the Dominion war was it ever established just how many Starships the Federation had, and how many of each class were available at the height of the conflict. The same question applies for the Klingons, Romulans, Cardissians, Breen and the Jem-Hadar...

Resistance is Futile


federation has about 10 fleets, each fleet having around 300-320 warships.

As to ship classes, wow, hard to guess.

I am guessing here,

300-320 Galaxy Class
250-300 Akira Class
30-50 Defiant class
200-300 Intrepid Class (Voyager)
200-400 Ambassador Class
200-400 Excelsior Class

and many other classes :D

I would doubt this very much. My own thinking was more along the lines of (in a single fleet)

3 to 5 Galaxy class (possibly with a Sovereign or two)
5 to 10 Akira class
1 to ?? Defiant class (we only ever saw the actual Defiant flying aroun, but I would bet its small size toughness and agility made it a preferred deep-penetration scout and recon ship)
1 to 5 Intrepid class (Admiral Ross used one as his flagship so who knows?)
5 to 10 Steamrunner class (I hate this design more than words can say)
5 to 10 Norway class (I hate this design even more)
5 to 10 Ambassador class
10 to 20 Excelsior class
10 to 20 Constellation class
20 to 30 Miranda class
50 to 100 Fighters

Now of course it gets tricky, because in some fleets you would substitute some of the Ambassadors for New Orleans or Nebulas, Whatever class ship, some of the Excelsiors for Centaurs, some of the Mirandas for Constitutions or Oberths or even extra Constellations, and so on and so forth. In all every fleet size will be between 115 and 200 ships, about half of which are fighters. Naturally, as the war got more and more desperate you'd see more and more fighters, more and more older designs being pulled out of places like Qualor-II with crews of a dozen or more, run mostly by automation.

In any case, the 7th fleet lost 98 ships in a single engagement; Bashir doesn't tell them exactly which ships made it back, but considering nobody seems to care which ships made it back (were they the fourteen biggest ships in the fleet or two Mirandas with skeleton crews and a handful of fighters?) it doesn't seem to matter, because the effect is that the fleet is basically massacred and whatever's left is just a remnant anyway. So if you assume all ten or twelve Starfleet battle groups have full ranks at the start of the war, we're talking--at maximum--two thousand capital ships and probably a huge number of fighters and runabouts. And even in this case, prevalence of fighters is probably a reaction to the Jem'Hadar bug ships that themselves aren't much bigger than Maquis raiders.

my figure was for the whole Star fleet, I estimated star fleet to have 3000-3200 capitol warships, perhaps 5000 large fighters and another 2-4000 non combat medical ships, supply ships....

I think well, I put balance of power during the Dominon war.


Star Fleet - 3200 capitol warships +5500 large fighters

Klingon Empire - 1500 capitol warships + 2000 Large fighters

Romulan Empire - 1000 Capitol warships + 1500 large fighters

other allies players had less than 1000 warships combined...

And the opposition....

Dominon - 4000 capitol warships + 9000 large fighters

Cardasian - 600 Capitol warships + 1200 smaller warships/large fighters

Breen - 1000-1200 Capital warships + 2500 smaller warships


But Dominion was loosing loads of ships to Klingon and federation hit and run tactics, we are talking 100's of ships each month of the war, so much so Dominion was pushed to attack to cut its losses.

Dominion was still hoping that 2800 warships that were stuck on the other side of the wormhole could get through somehow, but it wasn't to be the case.

Overall Dominion as it was could have never hopped to win against combined might of Klingon, Romulan and the Federation, it was matter of time before Dominion would fall, Breen involvement towards the end of the war was just postponing the inevitable.
 
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^ What do you mean by "large fighters", "small warships" and "capital warships"?
 
I think he means the big battle cruisers the Dominion had that vs the Jem'Hadar "warships" which are the bug-like ones.
 
Simply because Jem Ha'Dar fighters and Klingon Birds of Prey are SEVERAL times bigger with tons more firepower than Federation fighters, that's why.
How much power do you need to launch a photon torpedo? (which the Dominion and arguably the Klingons do not use?)

See "the Valiant," "Sacrifice of the Angels," and "Call to Arms" for Dominion torpedoes. Also, Robot Elf is correct, Quark went so far as to disarm a Dominion torpedo that was lodged in the hull of the Defiant.

Also, not all photon torpedoes are created equal. Starfleet fighters, runabouts, and even the Delta Flyer fire micro-torpedoes, implying that regular torpedoes are too large and too powerful to launch from smaller craft.

Because several Federation fighters can fit within the cargo bay of a mere Miranda class starship, that's why.
Why would you want to stick a large warp-capable space craft into the cargo bay of another large warp capable space craft? The whole reason for using fighters in the first place is to add more firepower to the fleet without actually adding more capital ships.[/quote]

Not necessarily, especially since some of the larger vessels can match a fighter in terms of maneuverability (say, a Defiant). Fighters can be used to occupy larger ships, but you'd need numbers for that.

Besides, the Maquis showed that the Federation fighters themselves are warp-capable. What does being warp-capable have to do with anything?

No, a Jem'hadar fighter is about seventy meters long, roughly the size of a Maquis raider. It is significantly smaller than the Klingon Bird of Prey and only slightly larger than the Cardassian Hideki class (which also gets pressed into massive service as a fighter, probably for the same reason).
A Jem'Hadar fighter is 90 meters long, which brings it to roughly the same area as a Bird of Prey (110) and a Hideki (roughly 90 as well). Martok's Bird of Prey (again, in Call to Arms) is roughly the same size as the three Jem'Hadar fighters that attacked the Defiant.

Runabouts? You mean those things that have enough power to destroy unshielded Jem'hadar fighters?
You mean after sustained phaser fire upon a weakness that only a Vorta pointed out about but otherwise would've been destroyed in an instant? I refer back to "The Jem'Hadar" and "The Valiant," as well as the episode you referenced, as cases in which it was far easier for a Jem'Hadar fighter to disable or destroy a runabout, rather than the other way around.

That's really no different than when Ro had the option of destroying the Enterprise-D with her itty bitty fighter, simply because she had the bridge targetted. And even then, to get her to that position, she knew the ship's weaknesses, which took not only a rediculous amount of prep time, but detailed knowledge of the enemy. Even if the Enterprise were unshielded, in a straight up battle, the Enterprise would've clearly been the victor.

Unless you're arguing that Ro in a fighter could destroy the Enterprise-D in a straight battle with fire blazing all over the place...

Right, because you're under the impression that a fleet of space craft about to engage in battle would actually LAUNCH those fighters like 20th century aircraft carriers instead of simply having those fighters fly alongside the entire way to and from the operation zone like PT boats or missile corvettes.

If I'm the commander of a wet navy that's about to deploy sixty cruisers and destroyers (with three or four battleships) against a vastly superior enemy, I don't think I'll be quick to dismiss the fifty to a hundred Pegasus class hydrofoils sitting on the flanks as being somehow irrelevant. Each ship has a good-sized gun and eight screaming-hot missiles to add to the gamble. I might even say something on the radio like "Attack group, fire your Harpoon missiles at the enemy's guided missile escorts, harass them with concentrated fire from your deck guns, then split up into squadrons and run like hell."
The problem here is that Trek battle tactics are very different than real world wet navy tactics. For one thing, in the real navy, our aircraft carriers can't reach the relative speeds of their attack fighters, whereas in several fleet battles, we see larger ships flying side by side with fighters. That in itself would be a big difference. Additionally, aircraft carriers themselves can't absorb a constant number of hits the way ships in Star Trek do without suffering catastrophic damage.

Imagine an aircraft carrier that could take the brunt of attacks from enemy fighters, putting down enough cover fire and absobing enough attacks that its fighters can concentrate on the distracted enemy fighters. The catch is, a Starfleet mothership can do that; a modern day aircraft carrier can't, and relies on her fighter compliment to do much of its defense.

Pretty much, because of the speeds and tech levels that everyone involved operates, tactics are going to differ quite a bit than what we know in the 20th century.

It wasn't. It was about 300 capital ships and hundreds of fighters vs. 600 capital ships and hundreds of more fighters. The Cardassian Hidekis are also considered "fighters" much as Starfleet runabouts and Peregrine couriers.
And where's your source for this number? Where was it said on screen that it was 300 capital ships, 600 capital ships, etc. etc? Hidekis themselves operate as separate starships, without the need of a mothership, unlike the runabouts and Starfleet fighters.

As for those Maquis engineers who equipped big guns onto small shuttles, let's keep in mind that it still took a squadron to take down a Cardassian vessel in TNG, and perhaps similar numbers to handle Excelsior-sized vessels in DS9.
Like how it took four Jem'hadar fighters just to damage an unprepared and unshielded Galaxy class before one of them went Kamikaze?

If you're trying to make the case that small Maquis ships have similar tactical capabilities as Jem'hadar battlebugs, your point is well made.[/quote]

When have the Maquis ever gone kamikaze?

And it didn't take four "just to damage" the Odyssey; the Dominion were scoring massive hits on her from the get go, though I hardly think that's a blame on fighter/capital ship labels but rather a blame on the enemy's severe technical edge.

If Starfleet had 300 fighters in Sacrifice of Angels, that only comes to matching only a small fraction of Dominion/Cardassian vessels.
Considering the Dominion vessels ALSO consisted mostly of fighters, that fraction would appear to be roughly "one half."[/quote]

Again, Dominion fighters are themselves considered fully-fledged starships, capable of surviving on their own for long periods of time, doing patrols and missions that ships of its size class routinely do. Semantics vs. actual Purpose.

With that said, I would think Starfleet fighters are ideal at occupying the larger Dominion vessels as well as the Cardassian Galor and Keldon vessels, but even then you'd need quite a few squadrons to do so. Dominion fighters, however, are ideal for going after pretty much anything Starfleet has; perhaps one for a Miranda, two for an Excelsior, and several more for a Galaxy. Three or four of them are enough to chase down the mighty Defiant.
 
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Never liked that they referred to the Jem'Hadar bugs as "fighters". I agree with Cyke101 that to me they are not fighters in the traditional sense whereas the attack fighters are. So that 300 attack fighters does not equal 300 Jem'Hadar 'fighters'.
Nor does a Federation "cruiser" equal a Jem'hadar cruiser, the latter being somewhat larger and better armed than a Galaxy class and possibly even the Negh'Var. Jem'hadar battleships are freaking enormous and the Dominion was able to deploy at least a dozen of them at every major fleet engagement of the war.

It isn't an even engagement one way or the other--Cruisers vs cruisers, destroyers vs. destroyers--since both sides use completely different types of ships that were designed on opposite ends of the galaxy knowing nothing whatsoever about each other. You could almost think of the differing fleet sizes of U.S. and Soviet fleets during the Cold War, the infamous "cruiser gap" in which the Soviets had "cruisers" that were actually smaller than most American frigates.

So Federation fighters aren't supposed to be the EQUAL to Jem'hadar fighters. What they're supposed to do is distract those fighters to keep them from doing swarm-attacks on the capital ships so that, in a flap of irony, the slightly smaller and more agile Federation capital ships could conduct swarm attacks on Jem'hadar cruisers and dreadnoughts.

The Jem'Hadar do use torpedoes, we had an episode where Quark had to disarm one that breached the hull and was poking into the ship's mess in I think it was Starship Down.
It was. In fact, it was the SINGLE use of torpedo-like weapons by the Jem'hadar against any Federation ship... a use in which the torpedo failed to detonate. Actually, it's probably an atmospheric weapon used for ground bombardment, considering it failed to even fully penetrate the ship before it got stuck in the hull.
 
Never liked that they referred to the Jem'Hadar bugs as "fighters". I agree with Cyke101 that to me they are not fighters in the traditional sense whereas the attack fighters are. So that 300 attack fighters does not equal 300 Jem'Hadar 'fighters'.

The Jem'Hadar do use torpedoes, we had an episode where Quark had to disarm one that breached the hull and was poking into the ship's mess in I think it was Starship Down.

Maybe its just a Fed term because those are the smallest ships the Dominion uses?

I don't like it either though, kinda misleading...

And thats true, too C... though then again, how often can you get behind a Jemmie Warship? lol
 
^ What do you mean by "large fighters", "small warships" and "capital warships"?

"Large fighters" would be the bugships and the hidekis for the Dominion, the Peregrines and Danubes for Starfleet. "Smaller warships" would be whatever the Cardassians had that was smaller than a Galor, and the Breen's smaller, uglier class of ship.
 
Simply because Jem Ha'Dar fighters and Klingon Birds of Prey are SEVERAL times bigger with tons more firepower than Federation fighters, that's why.
How much power do you need to launch a photon torpedo? (which the Dominion and arguably the Klingons do not use?)

See "the Valiant," "Sacrifice of the Angels," and "Call to Arms" for Dominion torpedoes.
In most cases they're the same weapon they used in "The Jem'Hadar" which was described as "some kind of phased polaron beam." Already delt with the weapon in Starship Down which--apart from being a vague plot device--is probably not a regular anti-ship weapon.

Also, not all photon torpedoes are created equal. Starfleet fighters, runabouts, and even the Delta Flyer fire micro-torpedoes...
This has never been established for the fighters, especially sine the studio model has a small opening on the nose large enough to act as a torpedo launcher. Since normal photon torpedoes aren't particularly large, a magazine of six to eight quantum torpedoes would seem to be in order.

Not necessarily, especially since some of the larger vessels can match a fighter in terms of maneuverability (say, a Defiant). Fighters can be used to occupy larger ships, but you'd need numbers for that.
Which, again, rules out any need to CARRY them into battle, especially if you need to bring more fighters than your ships could conceivably house. Anyway, we know for a fact that Federation fighters ARE warp capable, so there's no need to carry them into battle anyway.

The only question left to answer is why they are so small. The simple answer is obvious: if you need to quickly launch 24 photon torpedoes from four tubes at a fast maneuvering target, it takes less time to build four tiny ships with torpedo launchers than one larger ship with four torpedo launcher. Which, more than anything, probably explains the scarcity of Defiant class ships on the battle line.

What does being warp-capable have to do with anything?
You do not put fighters on carriers unless the fighters are faster than the carriers. In the Trekiverse, they're not, so the analogy you're looking for is PT boats and corvettes, not "aircraft" as such.

A Jem'Hadar fighter is 90 meters long
Depending on the visual, sure. I've seen it quoted at 50 to 75, which seems to fit the visuals. Either way you have rough parity between a bird of prey and a battle bug. The Federation doesn't have anything that establishes parity with that except the Akyazi class perimeter action ships and those never made an appearance in DS9 (although the Nova class MIGHT fit the bill of it was a bit more maneuverable). In any case, its the USE they're going for, not size/power parity. Defiant can only maneuver with a battlebug or a Bird of Prey because its engines are ridiculously overpowered. If they want something CHEAP to be that fast, they'd have to (and did) scale down a bit.

You mean after sustained phaser fire upon a weakness that only a Vorta pointed out about but otherwise would've been destroyed in an instant? I refer back to "The Jem'Hadar"...
Then you should refer back to it more often and see how "instantaneously" the runabouts were destroyed by the Jem'hadar.:vulcan:

The lack of parity simply requires building fighters in greater number to give them a better chance to survive.

That's really no different than when Ro had the option of destroying the Enterprise-D with her itty bitty fighter, simply because she had the bridge targetted.
Which, basically, is why fighters don't individually try to attack Galaxy class ships. Or Jem'hadar fighters for that matter unless they've got an edge.

The problem here is that Trek battle tactics are very different than real world wet navy tactics.
Precisely. Wet navies hang out beyond the range of each other's weapons and launch planes at each other over the horizon to let their pilots bomb each other. If that fails, they get closer and fire radar-guided missiles from extreme range and then deploy other weapons to try and shoot down or distract one another's missiles. When THAT fails, they get a little closer and pound each other with guns.

Trek ships (at least in DS9) fight in loose formations at relatively close ranges using sublight engines to maneuver around each other. Fighters don't have much shielding, but since they have much lower mass they don't have to be; they can turn and accelerate faster than larger ships, which at the very least makes them better able to engage Jem'hadar bugships without also presenting them with a big juicy target.

Pretty much, because of the speeds and tech levels that everyone involved operates, tactics are going to differ quite a bit than what we know in the 20th century.
Right. The main difference being fighters become line combatants, not auxiliaries.

It wasn't. It was about 300 capital ships and hundreds of fighters vs. 600 capital ships and hundreds of more fighters. The Cardassian Hidekis are also considered "fighters" much as Starfleet runabouts and Peregrine couriers.
And where's your source for this number?
Similar to the source for mic of orion's numbers. Look on the screen, count how many you see of each class, then take an educated guess.

Hidekis themselves operate as separate starships, without the need of a mothership, unlike the runabouts and Starfleet fighters.
Runabouts and fighters don't need a mothership either.

When have the Maquis ever gone kamikaze?
Who said they did? On the other hand they probably would have destroyed the Malinche if they had.

And it didn't take four "just to damage" the Odyssey; the Dominion were scoring massive hits on her from the get go
Uh huh. Having already figured out how to shoot through its shields like they weren't even there. Sort of like the favor Weyoun did for Odo in "Great River."

Now imagine the Federation had figured out ahead of time how to keep the Jem'hadar from penetrating their shields (as they apparently had by the time we got to "A Call To Arms."). Would this battle have turned out the same?

No, because WITHOUT the Kamikaze attack the Odyssey was damaged but still maneuvering. The extra harassment by the runabouts would have stumbled them enough for Oddyssey to shoot them down.

Again, Dominion fighters are themselves considered fully-fledged starships
So are runabouts. Why would it be any different for the fighters?

With that said, I would think Starfleet fighters are ideal at occupying the larger Dominion vessels as well as the Cardassian Galor and Keldon vessels
No, they don't have the firepower for that, or the staying power. To "occupy" them you would need the ability to keep their attention for long periods of time, which doesn't really work when they have enough power to shrug off the best you can throw at them.

On the other hand, smaller Jem'hadar ships are light enough that a squad of fighters launching quantum torpedoes would at least give them something to avoid; while they're busy dodging them, the bigger ships can move in and try to take the larger Dominion vessels four or five on one. As we've seen in DS9, this doesn't always work--in fact, it doesn't even usually work--because Starfleet so rarely has a numerical advantage.
 
A Jem'Hadar fighter is 90 meters long, which brings it to roughly the same area as a Bird of Prey (110) and a Hideki (roughly 90 as well). Martok's Bird of Prey (again, in Call to Arms) is roughly the same size as the three Jem'Hadar fighters that attacked the Defiant.

You mean after sustained phaser fire upon a weakness that only a Vorta pointed out about but otherwise would've been destroyed in an instant? I refer back to "The Jem'Hadar" and "The Valiant," as well as the episode you referenced, as cases in which it was far easier for a Jem'Hadar fighter to disable or destroy a runabout, rather than the other way around.

But it wasn't destroyed in an instant- it held together rather well- against one ship, and against.... 3 or 4. What the Vorta gave was a shiny piece of intel... The Runabouts can still take multiple hits, and evade them if they have a good pilot.

The Valiant= a Defiant class ship- albeit crewed by moronic children... :shifty:
 
Never liked that they referred to the Jem'Hadar bugs as "fighters". I agree with Cyke101 that to me they are not fighters in the traditional sense whereas the attack fighters are. So that 300 attack fighters does not equal 300 Jem'Hadar 'fighters'.
Never liked that they referred to the Jem'Hadar bugs as "fighters". I agree with Cyke101 that to me they are not fighters in the traditional sense whereas the attack fighters are. So that 300 attack fighters does not equal 300 Jem'Hadar 'fighters'.
Nor does a Federation "cruiser" equal a Jem'hadar cruiser, the latter being somewhat larger and better armed than a Galaxy class and possibly even the Negh'Var. Jem'hadar battleships are freaking enormous and the Dominion was able to deploy at least a dozen of them at every major fleet engagement of the war.

It isn't an even engagement one way or the other--Cruisers vs cruisers, destroyers vs. destroyers--since both sides use completely different types of ships that were designed on opposite ends of the galaxy knowing nothing whatsoever about each other. You could almost think of the differing fleet sizes of U.S. and Soviet fleets during the Cold War, the infamous "cruiser gap" in which the Soviets had "cruisers" that were actually smaller than most American frigates.

So Federation fighters aren't supposed to be the EQUAL to Jem'hadar fighters. What they're supposed to do is distract those fighters to keep them from doing swarm-attacks on the capital ships so that, in a flap of irony, the slightly smaller and more agile Federation capital ships could conduct swarm attacks on Jem'hadar cruisers and dreadnoughts.

Not really arguing against the use of fighters, rather that I don't see the Jem'Hadar attack ship as a "fighter" since I see fighters as craft along the typical sci-fi mould (X-Wings, TIE fighters, F-302s, etc).

If by Jem'Hadar battleship you mean the vessel from "Valiant", it only appear in the final battle of the war. Up to that episode it was an unknown quantity with maybe only that vessel active. In the final battle we saw two not dozens.

^ What do you mean by "large fighters", "small warships" and "capital warships"?

"Large fighters" would be the bugships and the hidekis for the Dominion, the Peregrines and Danubes for Starfleet. "Smaller warships" would be whatever the Cardassians had that was smaller than a Galor, and the Breen's smaller, uglier class of ship.

As with above I'd class the attack ships and Hidekis into small warships rather then fighters.

Maybe its just a Fed term because those are the smallest ships the Dominion uses?

I don't like it either though, kinda misleading...

It is possible in the future the definition of fighter might change to encompass small warships as well.

The Jem'Hadar do use torpedoes, we had an episode where Quark had to disarm one that breached the hull and was poking into the ship's mess in I think it was Starship Down.
It was. In fact, it was the SINGLE use of torpedo-like weapons by the Jem'hadar against any Federation ship... a use in which the torpedo failed to detonate. Actually, it's probably an atmospheric weapon used for ground bombardment, considering it failed to even fully penetrate the ship before it got stuck in the hull.

How much power do you need to launch a photon torpedo? (which the Dominion and arguably the Klingons do not use?)

See "the Valiant," "Sacrifice of the Angels," and "Call to Arms" for Dominion torpedoes.
In most cases they're the same weapon they used in "The Jem'Hadar" which was described as "some kind of phased polaron beam." Already delt with the weapon in Starship Down which--apart from being a vague plot device--is probably not a regular anti-ship weapon.

In the eps listed the visuals are what we typically see used to depict torpedoes, which are different from what we saw in "The Jem'Hadar", which was a pulse energy weapon, which changed to a coherent beam for every episode after that.

The missile lodged in the hull is a fairly standard plot device. We saw it in Voy: Year of Hell as well. I doubt that it was due to the weapon been a ground bombardment weapon rather then a anti-ship weapon...though there isn't really any difference when it comes to torpedoes. They appear to be just as effective in ship to ship as they are in surface strikes.

Which, again, rules out any need to CARRY them into battle, especially if you need to bring more fighters than your ships could conceivably house. Anyway, we know for a fact that Federation fighters ARE warp capable, so there's no need to carry them into battle anyway.
Generally in Trek, small ships like shuttles are slower then starships at warp. I don't think we saw anything to see how fast the fighter is at warp but if it was significantly slower then you would want to ferry them around. Always thought it was weird that in Favor the Bold we never see the Fed fleet at warp. It seems to just putt around at impulse.
 
No, a Jem'hadar fighter is about seventy meters long, roughly the size of a Maquis raider. It is significantly smaller than the Klingon Bird of Prey

Memory alpha says it is 90 meters long with a crew of 43:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jem'Hadar_fighter

This would make the Jem'Hadar fighter almost the same size as as a Klingon BoP (110 meters) and SIGNIFICANTLY larger than a Federation fighter, which has a crew of just 1 or 2:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Federation_attack_fighter


According to Memory Alpha, the script for the episode "the Jem'Hadar" specifically states that the Jem'Hadar fighter is roughly the same size as a BoP. Since it has a crew of 43, this makes more sense. Federation and Maquis attack fighters are only moderately larger than shuttlecraft.
 
Not really arguing against the use of fighters, rather that I don't see the Jem'Hadar attack ship as a "fighter" since I see fighters as craft along the typical sci-fi mould (X-Wings, TIE fighters, F-302s, etc).
I don't. Actually, I think even the Defiant could have gotten away with being classified as a "heavy fighter", assuming the nomelcature is appropriate for ANY ship in the Trekiverse and I don't think it is (except from a tactical standpoint, where you have fighters, defenders, cruisers and destroyers).

If by Jem'Hadar battleship you mean the vessel from "Valiant", it only appear in the final battle of the war. Up to that episode it was an unknown quantity with maybe only that vessel active. In the final battle we saw two not dozens.
Actually there was a fairly good number of them in Sacrifice of Angels IIRC.

It is possible in the future the definition of fighter might change to encompass small warships as well.
Well before that happens the definition of fighter would have to change to encompasses space craft of any kind. Who knows if the definition changes at all? It's more likely the term refers to a mission role in the fleet, not an actual vessel type.

The missile lodged in the hull is a fairly standard plot device. We saw it in Voy: Year of Hell as well. I doubt that it was due to the weapon been a ground bombardment weapon rather then a anti-ship weapon...though there isn't really any difference when it comes to torpedoes. They appear to be just as effective in ship to ship as they are in surface strikes.
No, the Maquis are known to have fired atmospheric torpedoes to deliver their selenium bioweapons to Cardassian colonies. And the Jem'hadar in "The Ship" detonated huge quantities of explosives in the air directly above their shut-down fighter. Since we never see them detonating charges or mines in combat--and since we never see anything that resembles the Jem'hadar torpedoes after Starship Down--this is, again, very likely a special purpose weapon they adapted at the last minute to be used in the gas giant.

Generally in Trek, small ships like shuttles are slower then starships at warp. I don't think we saw anything to see how fast the fighter is at warp but if it was significantly slower then you would want to ferry them around.
How fast would you want to ferry them around? The Mirandas for one will have maximum speeds around Warp 8, the support ships (tugs, supply ships, tenders, transports, medical ships) will be even slower. Given a Runabout can easily reach speeds of up to warp 5, I could see an upper limit for the Peregrines as warp 7 or so, fast enough to keep up with the fleet at cruising velocity.
 
If by Jem'Hadar battleship you mean the vessel from "Valiant", it only appear in the final battle of the war. Up to that episode it was an unknown quantity with maybe only that vessel active. In the final battle we saw two not dozens.
Actually there was a fairly good number of them in Sacrifice of Angels IIRC.

By Jem'Hadar battleship I'm referring to this ship. As you can see it's first appearance was in "Valiant", which was late season 6.

The missile lodged in the hull is a fairly standard plot device. We saw it in Voy: Year of Hell as well. I doubt that it was due to the weapon been a ground bombardment weapon rather then a anti-ship weapon...though there isn't really any difference when it comes to torpedoes. They appear to be just as effective in ship to ship as they are in surface strikes.
No, the Maquis are known to have fired atmospheric torpedoes to deliver their selenium bioweapons to Cardassian colonies. And the Jem'hadar in "The Ship" detonated huge quantities of explosives in the air directly above their shut-down fighter. Since we never see them detonating charges or mines in combat--and since we never see anything that resembles the Jem'hadar torpedoes after Starship Down--this is, again, very likely a special purpose weapon they adapted at the last minute to be used in the gas giant.

I didn't mean to say there weren't weapons specifically for striking ground targets, just that a photon torpedo can do the same job.

Why would they need to adapt the torpedo when their ordinary weapons are working fine it kicking the Defiant's tail?

As Cyke101 has pointed out before we see the Jem'Hadar using topedoes in "Call to Arms", "Sacrifice of Angels", "Valiant", "Dogs of War" and maybe other episodes. Just as with all the other combatants in the war the Dominion used torpedoes.

How fast would you want to ferry them around?

I guess you'd want to ferry them around faster then their top speed.
 
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, Newtype. But I just want to clarify something: I'm not opposed to the role of fighters, either. It's just that when a Starfleet fighter is compared to a Jem'Hadar "fighter," it takes several Starfleet fighters to match just one of the enemy's fighters. And yet Starfleet lasted for hours against what the characters considered to be two-to-one odds (as opposed to four-to-one, which would be implied if the Starfleet really were half-fighter).

And yes, two Mirandas were hulled by torpedoes in that episode! Memory-Alpha lists Jem'Hadar fighters as equipped with torpedoes.
 
I'm quite glad for this discussion...the terminology for the Jem'Hadar ship classes is quite confusing, to say the least!

Now, I need to pick your brains about the Battle of Cardassia Prime. What Dominion ship class did anybody observe--or would plausibly believe--a Galor being able to destroy? Let's say you have up to 4 Galors and several Hideki-class ships. What kind of damage do you think they could do?
 
^ It's nothing compared to the Star Wars EU terminology for ship classifications. I use to be fairly involved in the Fleet Junkies discussions about it several years ago over at theforce.net

I'm pretty sure we saw a Galor destroy a Breen ship and a Jem'Hadar attack ship when they switched sides. The other two types we see are the Jem'Hadar battle cruiser and battleship. I seriously doubt a Galor could destory neither of those on its own. Maybe with the element of surprise it could take a battle cruiser if the crew were very good and lucky.

4 Galors and a couple of Hidekis could do some damage. I doubt they could take a fairly fresh Jem'Hadar battleship. Given that 2 to 3 Galors are equal to a Galaxy and the Jem'Hadar battle cruiser and a Galaxy would probably be a good match, the Cardassian force should be capable to taking a JH battle cruiser and expect success.

The Breen ship was weird. In some scenes it looked quite big (particularly in the Second Battle of Chin'toka. The first ship the Defiant destroys looked to be quite a big larger then the Defiant) and in other scenes it didn't seem that much bigger then the Defiant, maybe around the size of a Miranda class vessel. I guess the Cardassians could take on four at the most, it depends on how many Hidekis are there and just how big the Breen ship is.

Of course you have other factors that would influence the outcome. The Cardassians turned fairly late into the battle so their ships might be damaged to a certain degree and/or the death or incapacitation of critical crew members, which could hamper their performance. As I mentioned before you have the element of surprise initially that would be useful.

By the way, I'm basing this all on nothing but guess work...
 
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