or do you subscribe to the notion that nationalism is intrinsically the cause of much suffering, a contemporary tribalism that we should attempt to eradicate in order to embrace our common humanity?
Would You Describe Yourself as a Nationalist/Patriot?
- Thread starter Captain Zog
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I live in Northern Ireland, so I can see the waste that such a thing produces. When your basic needs aren't met, nationalism does nothing to gain them.
I love my country, but not to the point of craziness.
E
Elmo Dukat
Guest
I think informed patriotism is fine. It's ignorance which is the prime cause of tragedy.
Uninformed patriotism - cheering your country for things it doesn't do, for instance - is stupid and dangerous. As is uninformed anti-patriotism - hating your country without appreciating the good things about your country, or even without understanding in a reasonable fashion why you dislike your country.
I think political realism is more important, in general. Know what can be fixed, know what is reasonably okay, know what is exceptional. And then know, on average, where your country stands with respect to the things you care about - whether they're civil rights, community values, economic prowess, etc - in comparison to other countries.
Being proud of something is okay, if there's a good reason to be proud. Being embarrassed it okay too, if there's a good reason to be embarrassed.
Uninformed patriotism - cheering your country for things it doesn't do, for instance - is stupid and dangerous. As is uninformed anti-patriotism - hating your country without appreciating the good things about your country, or even without understanding in a reasonable fashion why you dislike your country.
I think political realism is more important, in general. Know what can be fixed, know what is reasonably okay, know what is exceptional. And then know, on average, where your country stands with respect to the things you care about - whether they're civil rights, community values, economic prowess, etc - in comparison to other countries.
Being proud of something is okay, if there's a good reason to be proud. Being embarrassed it okay too, if there's a good reason to be embarrassed.
I try to fight for truth and justice. If it contradicts The American Way so be it.
And this ladies and gentlemen, is why the world thinks the US is fucking nuts.
Nationalism the arrogant promotion of one's country at the expense of others; Patriotism is love of and loyalty to country. I'm a Patriot.
I sense a loaded question here.
Yes, I do consider myself a patriot, and no, I don't think it causes suffering. *People* cause suffering.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
It's how you interpret it. If there's something wrong with the USA, it's citizens shouldn't just disown it and want to move to Canada. They should try to fix it, because it is their country...even if its "wrong."
Good thread.
I'm not a nationalist, but I would like to think of myself as a patriot. You appear to use them synonymously when they are very different ideals. Nationalism, in it's more extreme forms, enables one to accept dehumanization and worldly inequality and promote a "country first" attitude at any and all costs. Patriotism, for the United States, is the love and devotion to the inherent values that the nation was founded on-- and it often means disagreeing and criticizing ones government when they fail to meet those standards.
No, I don't think the healthy love for ones country should or could be "eradicated" for a global round of kumbaya-- but I think we need to be humanitarian for all people of the world as an act of patriotism to the ideal of inalienable rights for all human beings.
I'm happy to be an American and happy that the past has provided me in my current situation, but I am first and foremost the subject of God. I boast in the Lord not in my nation.
I'm an American. I love my country and it's people, but recognize some of our past and current problems. I've had the honor of serving in the US armed forces as well, of which I am proud.
We've got to make course corrections from time to time, but it's an alright place.
We've got to make course corrections from time to time, but it's an alright place.
I like America, but I wouldn't say that I'm proud.
This, too.
Patriotism and nationalism are not the same things at all.
Patriotism is a sentiment. It's simply love of country. You can love your country for the wrong reasons--but you can also love it for the right reasons--like how well it secures the rights and freedoms of its citizens. I love my own country for precisely that reason.
Nationalism, by contrast, is an ideology. It's the belief that human beings can be divided into 'nations'; that each 'nation' has a rightful territory of its own; and that political boundaries should coincide with national boundaries.
It's an insidious, unworkable doctrine which has caused widespread misery, death, and destruction. As I always say: nations exist only in the imaginations of nationalists, just as races exist only in the imaginations of racists.
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