Only from a trekkie point of view. Nine out of ten people who are potentially in the audience for this movie either don't know or don't take "canon" very seriously, and there are much much better measures of what makes a story "great" for most viewers/readers than how closely it hews to the minutiae of continuity.
The New Enterprise Reveald
- Thread starter Jefferies
- Start date
Only from a trekkie point of view. Nine out of ten people who are potentially in the audience for this movie either don't know or don't take "canon" very seriously, and there are much much better measures of what makes a story "great" for most viewers/readers than how closely it hews to the minutiae of continuity.
I tend to disagree with the above. For many of the issues already presented here.
if you are watching a movie for pure enjoyment with no reguards to the story then not following canon is fine, but for those interested in the story and plot following canon is a requirement - otherwise the movie is meaningless.
be that its own canon, old canon, a new canon or whaterver. Without the canon to tie the movies together there is no overall story or reason for another movie.
And its not from just a trekkie point of view, its from the view of whats reasonable to expect from a producer known for good shows and movies. What would LOST be without canon. Can you imgien how 'lost' you would be if they didn't follow canon.
if you are watching a movie for pure enjoyment with no reguards to the story then not following canon is fine, but for those interested in the story and plot following canon is a requirement - otherwise the movie is meaningless.
be that its own canon, old canon, a new canon or whaterver. Without the canon to tie the movies together there is no overall story or reason for another movie.
And its not from just a trekkie point of view, its from the view of whats reasonable to expect from a producer known for good shows and movies. What would LOST be without canon. Can you imgien how 'lost' you would be if they didn't follow canon.
A story or a movie should be internally consistent. That is not the same as "following canon," a phrase that's really abused.
Is there a good reason for watching a movie other than "pure enjoyment?" Other than high school driver's ed flicks, I mean.
(And I don't mean to diss classics like "Blood On The Highway," a terribly enjoyable way to pass an hour after lunch period).
'Canon' and 'continuity' also help with 'suspension of disbelief'. The moment, in any series, where X happens that conflicts with Y, you're momentarily taken out of the enjoyment of the episode/movie/script, etc. When you're given a big contradiction in the 'continuity' of a show (something which plagued a lot of sci-fi for many years), you start throwing up your arms and declaring it 'silly'.
Yeah, well we're talking about a movie - and, quite likely, a sequel or two. Not a TV series.
^^ I agree to an extent. Superhero movies suffer a similar perceprion that it's not serious. But some of the best stories are superhero graphic novels where the creative team take the subject matter seriously and with respect as well as enthusiasm for the subject matter.
Star Trek (TOS) at its best was done along these lines: respect the subject matter and treat it seriously as well as with enthusiasm.
Star Trek (TOS) at its best was done along these lines: respect the subject matter and treat it seriously as well as with enthusiasm.
Like Batman, Superman, Spiderman, and Transformers?
Don't forget my fav, Pirates! Hoy Jonny
In any case, I still think that disrespect for canon even it is an abused word is king. Give me a good soild reason as to why canon shouldn't be adheared to that isn't oh they got a good story.
To start with I dont beleive the theory that Star Trek has too much canon, thats like saying lets forget our own history because it doesn't help tell a story. I realize ones fiction the other isnt, but you should get the point.
In any case, I still think that disrespect for canon even it is an abused word is king. Give me a good soild reason as to why canon shouldn't be adheared to that isn't oh they got a good story.
To start with I dont beleive the theory that Star Trek has too much canon, thats like saying lets forget our own history because it doesn't help tell a story. I realize ones fiction the other isnt, but you should get the point.
Well, first of all "because they've got a good story" would be the very very best reason to ignore canon.
Because it only matters to a very few people and there are about three dozen things to concentrate on that are more important. Abrams and the writers appear to be giving the Trek Orthodoxy all the attention it's due, which is considerably less than some fans would like. C'est la guerre.
As I've said before, if this is their idea of "respecting canon", I'd hate to see what their idea of disrespecting canon would be.
The worst way of disrespecting canon is to add more crap to it, like NEM, INS, VOY and ENT.
That's not a bad way of looking at it.
A similar observation would be that one way of disrespecting "Star Trek" and its fans is to insist that no matter how bad, useless or trivial an idea or story or detail was, it must be unwaveringly adhered to in future simply because a mistake once made must be defended forever.
Then dont do stupid stuff. The writers have a while to write a good story that can respect canon. If they cant write a good story in the canon, get someone that can. In all seriousness its the canon that keeps people honest about the story.
Does something someone said once have to be respected, I dont have the answer for that i suppose and perhaps some one-liners are left in the bed. with that said, all power should be taken to respect the canon otherwise write a different story about different people.
And I still cant buy "because its a great sory" as a reason to toss canon. I dont understand the 'great=no canon' debat at all. If a story is truly great its a great story told within the confines of the canon or universe its set in.
A truly great writer should be able to write great stories about the canon that exists without the need to tell a story outside of canon.
We wont agree on this issue and in the end, either you believe the canon is flawed or you dont. If the canon is flawed, its still the canon and it has to be respected otherwise comeout and say, its a reboot and let the chips fall where they may.
Does something someone said once have to be respected, I dont have the answer for that i suppose and perhaps some one-liners are left in the bed. with that said, all power should be taken to respect the canon otherwise write a different story about different people.
And I still cant buy "because its a great sory" as a reason to toss canon. I dont understand the 'great=no canon' debat at all. If a story is truly great its a great story told within the confines of the canon or universe its set in.
A truly great writer should be able to write great stories about the canon that exists without the need to tell a story outside of canon.
We wont agree on this issue and in the end, either you believe the canon is flawed or you dont. If the canon is flawed, its still the canon and it has to be respected otherwise comeout and say, its a reboot and let the chips fall where they may.
Yeah, I really don't care about the canon. I just enjoy the shows.
and i'm twited fanatic about canon, well not really bad, but I do care about the overall story arc.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
I'm sorry, but I think you are more concerned about minutia than 'the overall story arc' (which doesn't exist in the Trek-franchise, btw).
Then you would be incorrect. I am not concered about one-liners, and any francies has a story arc, even if its episodic in nature.
Case in point, the ST 2,3,4 are all serialized, and to a lesser extent so is ST 5 and 6. Generations talks about things from Home and all the TNG movies talk about things relevent to the series as a whole. I fail to see how each one is selfcontained.
Because you want to be entertained by a good and solid well written story? Shame on you and shame on me!
ST-One
Vice Admiral
This doesn't give the whole of Trek an 'overall story arc'.
If it had one, then that would mean that the story of Trek would be going somewhere, expanding towards... something. But that isn't the case.
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