Androids

[Herbert1]

If Bruce Maddox of the Daystrom Technical Institute was able to create a positronic brain and the Federation was able to create androids en masse so that it would be possible that a starship would have at least one, how would androids serve aboard starships?

Do you believe that like Data, androids would attend Starfleet Academy and be offered commissions?

Or would they be considered to be part of the ship or other equipment or property owned by Starfleet?

The TNG episode "Measure of a Man", TNG "The Quality of Life", and the VGR episode "Flesh and Blood" suggested that androids had rights? Does anyone have the name of the proclamation?

Would Starfleet dumb down androids if they were in service?

 

[Johnny]

I always get a bit queezy when this is brought up, because I can only see the end point being a fleet of ships being run by androids all with super human stength, etc. I get the same feeling when they start discussing the holodoc's rights too.

If starfleet did build androids and then offered them a choice to join up, then there's the chance that they might not accept, and if they have choice and are considered alive then starfleet has no option but to let them go...IMO if they'll build them, I figure they'll want assurances.

If they were dumbed down, what would you take out? and how much could be taken out before it stops them being 'alive' and being useful??!

 

[kv1at3485]

If you start building sentient computers/machines, then you've just added more people to the pool. The machines will build more of themselves. If you give them a choice, you'll get some joining up. (No need for an all-or-nothing approach, although ST tends to think in diametrics...)

Even a small number joining up may potentially give a huge boost since a few may very well want to go all the way and become ships: 1 sentient computer may be able to run an entire ship, which means freeing up hundreds of 'normal' crew.

 

[Herbert1]

I always get a bit queezy when this is brought up, because I can only see the end point being a fleet of ships being run by androids all with super human stength, etc. I get the same feeling when they start discussing the holodoc's rights too.

If starfleet did build androids and then offered them a choice to join up, then there's the chance that they might not accept, and if they have choice and are considered alive then starfleet has no option but to let them go...IMO if they'll build them, I figure they'll want assurances.

If they were dumbed down, what would you take out? and how much could be taken out before it stops them being 'alive' and being useful??!

It's the dilemma that I have about androids and sentient machines appearing in Star Trek. The obvious use for androids and sentient machines would be to send them into places that would be too dangerous for fragile biological lifeforms or to send them on hazardous missions in which they would be expected to sacrifice themselves for the good of the crew.

But the writers raised the issues of slavery and sentient rights applying to andriods and sentient machines.

 

[JNG]

The Federation doesn't use a whole lot of robots and such, and this controversy is probably the reason why. The genetic engineering is a similar "where do we draw the line" issue, and they locked down pretty hard on that, too.

If someone built more Soong-type androids, with capabilities similar to those of Data, I see no reason they would not have full rights. Someone else would probably put the kibosh on programs designed to build "crippled" Data-type droids, since there's no need for the positronic brain in a laundrybot or whatever, if the Federation even has those.

 

[kv1at3485]

^ Good point. A positronic crippled to be "just" an expert system would still be excellent for a wide range of applications, including expendable probes for hazardous environments...

 

[Unicron]

If the goal is to build units that can augment the function of biological crews, or handle hazardous missions, why would sentience automatically be a requirement? The Enterprise's computer has the intelligence to interact with the crew, but it is probably not sentient in the way that a character like Data is. It's not necessary for its function.

 

[Anika Hanson]

If they were mass produced I dont think they would have had any rights and would have been the property of starfleet. I cant see them running a whole ship i.e. an entire android crew but they would have become common place aboard most starfleet ships. I can see a similar situation arising as did with EMHs in the alpha quadrant.

 

[Timo]

I wouldn't argue "no rights at all". After all, we give rights to our beasts of burden - only, we give them rights that are more limited in certain respects than those of humans.

In case of certain highly advanced artificial lifeforms (or some biological ones we encounter in the Trek universe), it might be necessary to give them more rights than to humans, as well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Therin of Andor]

If Bruce Maddox of the Daystrom Technical Institute was able to create a positronic brain and the Federation was able to create androids...

I refer you to one of my favourite TNG novels, "Immortal Coil" by Jeffrey Lang, which starts from that premise. It's an excellent whodunnit, although if you don't follow TOS, the many cameo references to past encounters with androids and AI will be lost in the translation!

 

[JoeZhang]

And why is it so difficult to make androids - why couldn't you make a Data type body and load a doctor type holomatrix into it?

 

[JoeZhang]

Even a small number joining up may potentially give a huge boost since a few may very well want to go all the way and become ships: 1 sentient computer may be able to run an entire ship, which means freeing up hundreds of 'normal' crew.

It's funny you mention that - the Star Trek model of "crew" seems to have fallen out of favour in modern sci-fi literature - most of the stuff I read (most recently the dreaming void or stuff like Banks' the Culture) features spaceships where the crew is either a couple of people or entirely unneeded.

 

[Timo]

And why is it so difficult to make androids?

It could be that Dr. Soong indeed discovered something worthwhile... Presumably, AIs can be created rather effortlessly by a starship computer (as all of our good hologram fellows amply demonstrate), but the type of computing needed is difficult to squeeze into small physical confines. And positronics might be just the right way to squeeze just the right type of computing into a skull-sized device.

Androids as such might not be a relevant technology in the 24th century Trek universe. But a sentient android, no matter how useless a trinket, would still be a nice show of force for a scientist who has dedicated his life to building radically new types of compact computers.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[captcalhoun]

I refer you to Star Trek Myriad Universes volume II and the story 'Brave New World' in which Soong announced his creation of Data to the UFP (it's a 'what if?' story). in it androids are only accorded limited rights, and are all constructed at Daystrom Institute and they do go thru the Academy, but in only a year.

it's a damn good story (if creepy) and so too are the other two novels in the volume.

 

[roguephoenix]

i had the same question about the holograms on a diff thread. the emh on voyager was deemed a person so it begs the question are all emh on the other ships sentient? what about the ones that were turned into mining slaves? very slippery topic.

 

[The Borg Queen]

Why don't they just use the vending machine from Mudd's Women?

 

[NCC1968]

I don't buy that they can be alive or sentient so they are just tools.

Data is fiction and this leaves the realm of entertainment and ventures into philosophy.