Starfleet General Orders
- Thread starter jgdst
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I agree that in theory decimating the Borg is in the interest of the majority of species in this galaxy, and probably most galaxies too. But even so, Picard's realisation that made him decide not to infect Hugh with the virus showed that even the most despicable species have the right to live.
Whatever other complaints there are about Endgame, it always bothered me that Admiral Janeway so casually tried to destroy the collective just to get her ship home.
The Talosians I don't think deserved to be wiped out - they showed compassion towards Pike after he's left a prisoner of his own body.
Even Sisko's decision to poison Eddington's planet always leaves me feeling a bit uncomfortable. On the other hand, Archer at least has a legitimate reason for destroying the moon base in Azati Prime, and it does have an impact on him - and this is only a couple of Xindi he had to sacrifice, not an entire population.
To make that decision shouldn't just be left up to the decision of the captain involved, if it even has to be made at all.
Whatever other complaints there are about Endgame, it always bothered me that Admiral Janeway so casually tried to destroy the collective just to get her ship home.
The Talosians I don't think deserved to be wiped out - they showed compassion towards Pike after he's left a prisoner of his own body.
Even Sisko's decision to poison Eddington's planet always leaves me feeling a bit uncomfortable. On the other hand, Archer at least has a legitimate reason for destroying the moon base in Azati Prime, and it does have an impact on him - and this is only a couple of Xindi he had to sacrifice, not an entire population.
To make that decision shouldn't just be left up to the decision of the captain involved, if it even has to be made at all.
Very true. Species capable even of high relativistic speeds are a potential nightmare for anyone living close. Killing a species before they kill you when they've done nothing is one thing. Killing a species because they're about to kill you is quite another.
But surely there are situations where a starship is too far out for contact with starfleet command. I can except that General Order 24 was rescinded, but there was quite probably a time when starships truly were on their own out there, facing unimaginable dangers, when such an order was necessary.
Operation: Annihilate!, anyone?
I think the important thing to keep in mind about the Borg is that they're not actually a species. They're a technological phenomenon engaging in large-scale mind control. Destroying the Borg Collective would lead to the liberation of its prisoners/slaves, not the destruction of an actual species.
As for the Q -- they've proven time and again that they're not a genuine threat to the Federation. We know this because, hey, guess what, they could blink the Federation out of existence or turn them all into newts with a snap of their fingers if they wanted to. That they haven't means that they respect the Federation's right to exist; ergo the Federation should respect theirs.
The Talosians proved to be fundamentally benign once confronted with the impossibility and immorality of creating a race of Human slaves. They certainly don't deserve genocide.
The Founders of the Dominion have infants -- members of the Great Link such as Odo and the Hundred before they were sent out. Ergo, there are members of the Great Link who are not responsible for the Founders' atrocities. And on top of that, Odo is there now trying to get them to change. They don't deserve genocide (as in fact no species that does not possess unity of determination deserves genocide).
As for the Q -- they've proven time and again that they're not a genuine threat to the Federation. We know this because, hey, guess what, they could blink the Federation out of existence or turn them all into newts with a snap of their fingers if they wanted to. That they haven't means that they respect the Federation's right to exist; ergo the Federation should respect theirs.
The Talosians proved to be fundamentally benign once confronted with the impossibility and immorality of creating a race of Human slaves. They certainly don't deserve genocide.
The Founders of the Dominion have infants -- members of the Great Link such as Odo and the Hundred before they were sent out. Ergo, there are members of the Great Link who are not responsible for the Founders' atrocities. And on top of that, Odo is there now trying to get them to change. They don't deserve genocide (as in fact no species that does not possess unity of determination deserves genocide).
Frankly, if all it takes to wipe out a whole species is one or two starships, then that civilization is no threat to the Federation.
As for the other races you mentioned as being threats, let's keep in mind that the Q Continnuum is monitoring Earth because of humanity's potential to surpass them, and that DeLancie Q isn't acting out of malice, but is rather pushing humanity to its limits so that humanity can realize more about its own potential. You're essentially talking about wiping out a race of cosmic mentors.
The Talosians themselves harm no one, and as pointed out earlier, they're actually helping Pike.
So you're saying, what, the Federation should commit pre-emptive genocide on the basis of something that the Q might possibly maybe do? Something that doesn't even seem particularly probable?
If they did that, how exactly would they be any better than the barbarians that the Q once accused them of being?
All I'm saying is that its better to have the option and not need it than to need the option and not have it.
Wouldn't it be better -- and probably easier -- to simply find a way to block their powers than to actually kill them en masse?
Yes, that would be nice. However, maintaining both a stun and a kill option is something of an establishment in Starfleet.All I'm saying is that its better to have the option and not need it than to need the option and not have it.
Wouldn't it be better -- and probably easier -- to simply find a way to block their powers than to actually kill them en masse?
Yes, that would be nice. However, maintaining both a stun and a kill option is something of an establishment in Starfleet.All I'm saying is that its better to have the option and not need it than to need the option and not have it.
Wouldn't it be better -- and probably easier -- to simply find a way to block their powers than to actually kill them en masse?
Fine. Research a way to kill an individual Q if need be.
But the idea of researching a way to commit genocide, especially against a species that has a demonstrated history of not acting with complete unity and of not engaging in hostilities against the Federation?
Why not just go ahead and convert to fascism while you're at it?
Great point!
This is exactly what the Xindi did to Earth, and there was never any doubt it was wrong. Archer's reply was to try and make contact to resolve it peacefully, not start the very conflict the Xindi were trying to avoid.
It shouldn't be any less right for the Federation to destroy the Q than it was for the Xindi to destroy Earth.
All I'm saying is that its better to have the option and not need it than to need the option and not have it.
Well, since Q seem to be able to know a lot of things (while I think omniscient is debatable, they certainly can be invisible and see it or compel someone to tell them what a secret plan is), they would know about the genocide long before it gets implemented. Would, by your logic, they be justified in committing genocide to us because the survival of their species is at stake?
.... the idea of the Federation refusing to destroy an entire planetary surface and thereby commit genocide makes you sad?
I fixed it for you.
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