Giant Space Drill (rant, spoilerish)

[GodThingFormerly]

Giant Space Drill comes pretty low on the list of science shenanigans in trek by my count.

But why invoke additional "science shenanigans" if you don't really have to? If Abrams wanted to show our heroes engaged in close combat high on a spectacular megastructure he could have used a Tsiolkovsky Tower or something instead.

TGT

 

[Therin of Andor]

Nero would have parked his space squid in a stationary orbit

If the plot is so paper thin, it would be a stationery orbit.

 

[Vigilance]

Giant Space Drill comes pretty low on the list of science shenanigans in trek by my count.

But why invoke additional "science shenanigans" if you don't really have to? If Abrams wanted to show our heroes engaged in close combat high on a spectacular megastructure he could have used a Tsiolkovsky Tower or something instead.

TGT

Why not though? Trek has never shied away from fantastic elements. The pilot episode of TOS had a big energy barrier around the galaxy that turned people into psionic supermen.

The pilot episode of TNG had an interglactic space entity putting the crew on trial for the crimes of humanity, and they proved themselves innocent by helping the giant energy jellyfish get free.

The pilot episode of DS9 had intergalactic space gods who were building gateways in time and space.

I really don't see anything so out of line about a giant space drill it's no less realistic than anything else in the history of Trek.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

I really don't see anything so out of line about a giant space drill it's no less realistic than anything else in the history of Trek.

The examples you cite were - at least in the case of TOS and TNG - necessary conceits the writers invented to tell the stories they wanted to tell. The GSD, however, is an utterly superfluous element retrofitted to the old science fiction plot device of a planet-swallowing black hole (a la David Brin's 1990 novel, Earth) which serves absolutely no purpose beyond providing a VFX-heavy stage where the villain meets an appropriately icky end.

TGT

 

[Vigilance]

I really don't see anything so out of line about a giant space drill it's no less realistic than anything else in the history of Trek.

The examples you cite were - at least in the case of TOS and TNG - necessary conceits the writers invented to tell the stories they wanted to tell. The GSD, however, is an utterly superfluous element retrofitted to the old science fiction plot device of a planet-swallowing black hole (a la David Brin's 1990 novel, Earth) which serves absolutely no purpose beyond providing a VFX-heavy stage where the villain meets an appropriately icky end.

TGT

Really? You're really reduced to arguing that it was NECESSARY to the plot of TNG's pilot that they rescue a giant energy jellyfish?

There NEEDED to be a giant energy barrier around the edge of the galaxy to turn Gary Mitchell into a godlike psionic entity? Nothing else would have sufficed?

Nah, sorry. The writers could have invented ANY DEVICE they wanted for the crew to prove themselves "innocent" of the crimes of humanity or for Gary Mitchell to temporarily go from man to god.

In each case, the writers chose the thing they did largely because it was cool, and it looked cool.

Pretty much the exact same reason Abrams chose a giant space drill, assuming we know everything we need to know about the GSD from the trailer.

But even if Abrams just did the GSD to look cool, he's in good company.

 

[Kirk1980]

THWAP!

Ouch!

Think like an overhyped Hollywood producer, you fool!

Yes, mistress.

He'll just put his engines in REVERSE!

Which would cause the space squid to lose altitude. On the other hand, the ship is probably equipped with some type of antigrav thingy so Nero can just put it into "hover mode" over the target site. My objection concerning the need for a drill to implant a black hole still stands, however.

TGT

Shhhh, there there, God Thing.... you're thinking logically....it's okay, just...let it go. You'll be happier that way.

*you realize I agree with you, I hope!

Aaaaaaaanyway, the point is NOT (why do I have to keep saying this?) that previous incarnations of Trek did silly things...but um, SHOULDN'T WE LEARN FROM MISTAKES? Why repeat them?

That's what drives me nuts about people who are strident defenders of this film.... they repeatedly cite past Trek AS IF that's supposed to justify whatever stupid thing is being pointed out in the new movie. Shouldn't there be...I dunno, learning going on?

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Really? You're really reduced to arguing that it was NECESSARY to the plot of TNG's pilot that they rescue a giant energy jellyfish?

The existence of spaceborne lifeforms has been theorized by noted scientists ranging from the aforementioned Konstantin Tsiolkovsky to Freeman Dyson, so I don't have much of a problem with EaF's space jellyfish beyond their generally mediocre design and execution.

There NEEDED to be a giant energy barrier around the edge of the galaxy to turn Gary Mitchell into a godlike psionic entity? Nothing else would have sufficed?

No, but since we don't know what the necessary mechanisms are to turn ordinary humans into power-crazed psionic supermen the energy barrier was as good a plot device as any, just as the Thasians were in Charlie X.

Nah, sorry. The writers could have invented ANY DEVICE they wanted for the crew to prove themselves "innocent" of the crimes of humanity or for Gary Mitchell to temporarily go from man to god.

Sure, but some devices are more convincing than others. The fact is that if you intend to destroy a planet with a matter-accreting singularity there is absolutely no need to manually drill a giant hole first.

In each case, the writers chose the thing they did largely because it was cool, and it looked cool.

...and in the case of EaF, had a certain minimum level of scientific legitimacy.

Pretty much the exact same reason Abrams chose a giant space drill, assuming we know everything we need to know about the GSD from the trailer.

I suppose the leak of the black hole weapon to the media could have been misdirection on the part of the studio and the GSD has some rationale for existence, but I very much doubt it.

But even if Abrams just did the GSD to look cool, he's in good company.

There is no shortage of speculative macro-engineering technologies that would have looked cool and logical.

TGT

 

[JNG]

So... you guys are debating the reality of a space drill, in a movie with thousands of humanoid species, and ships that travel faster than light, and computers that can translate any language into perfect english in seconds.

Huh.

Giant Space Drill comes pretty low on the list of science shenanigans in trek by my count.

I'm not doubting its scientific verisimilitude. I'm doubting that it's any good. The things you mentioned are underlying components of Star Trek. Star Trek usually does much better than a space drill.

I don't know what is supposed to shock us about new ways to destroy a planet or render it uninhabitable. I didn't get why Shinzon's new death radiation in Nemesis was a much bigger deal than several other things I can think of offhand that would have wrecked Earth (how many torpedoes would really have been necessary?). If the point was that it left the whole technological infrastructure intact, then okay, but it might have been nice to make that a plot point instead of making up yet another new radiation.

But space drill? Time travel plot? Romulans hate Vulcans? Tattoos and motorcycles? No, it doesn't seem like these could really be the hot new ideas revitalizing a franchise. Let's hope it all somehow all comes together surprisingly well.

 

[btflash]

I have one word...EWOKS...if ewoks can help bring down the Empire, Nero can have a space drill...

Rob

so..... there will be a space drill containing hordes of crazed romulan ewoks who will destroy vulcan? wow! i cant wait.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Star Trek usually does much better than a space drill.

Not really.

 

[EyalM]

People keep mentioning a black hole. Where does that bit of information come from? This is the first I've read of it.

 

[Arlo]

Seems to me the GSD is based somewhat on solid theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator

And yeah, this is a universe that has the tech to move a person's atoms from one place to another and fly faster than light. I'm not too hung up on the GSD, either.

 

[Vigilance]

I'm not doubting its scientific verisimilitude. I'm doubting that it's any good. The things you mentioned are underlying components of Star Trek. Star Trek usually does much better than a space drill.

Well, I really can't make any claims as to how good it is, since we've got a 2 minute trailer and some out of context spoilers.

I will actually watch the movie before deciding if its any good or not.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

That space drill is even sillier than you guys think...I heard from a reliable source that the drill's registry number starts with zero! Talk about stupid...

 

[Vance]

Seems to me the GSD is based somewhat on solid theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator

And yeah, this is a universe that has the tech to move a person's atoms from one place to another and fly faster than light. I'm not too hung up on the GSD, either.

Well, since we've done matter-to-entery-to-matter transportation in the REAL world, I think calling Trek's use of it 'silly' is a pretty stupid thing to do, really.

 

[Psion]

Maybe the black hole isn't deposited by the squid ship. Maybe the space drill bores down under the crust to a sufficient depth (and therefore pressure) that it's (very, very, very, very slightly) easier to make a black hole out of the materials in Vulcan's mantle or core.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Star Trek usually does much better than a space drill.

Not really.

This plan by the villan Nero is at least as well-thought out as the Borg's poorly-designed scheme to stop humans from having their 'First Contact' with the vulcans.

Now THAT was a plan (and movie plot) full of logical holes...however, that film was still damn entertaining.

 

[Kaych]

Now, we all know that Nero fails and likely dies, probably in a fist fight with NuKirk where Nero falls to his slightly-ironic but utterly predictable death on the drill, but, wouldn't it be more fun if he lives, gets thrown back in prison, and we see him with a hangover?

Uh, I'm probably gonna regret saying this, but it seems his plan DOES work, and Vulcan is destroyed. Nero won't even be on the drill, he's on the Narada.

Secondly, They aren't dropping a singularity

Maybe the black hole isn't deposited by the squid ship. Maybe the space drill bores down under the crust to a sufficient depth (and therefore pressure) that it's (very, very, very, very slightly) easier to make a black hole out of the materials in Vulcan's mantle or core.

Bingo! The Narada will be dropping "red matter" (a fictitious miracle substance) that will msot likely create a singularity when it mixes with the core materials of Vulcan.

 

[Star Treks]

It seems to me that there are three kinds of people when it comes to the new movie (an overgeneralization):

- Those who are hopeful, and optimistic, and going to see it.

- Those who are negative and have issues and probably won't see it in theaters.

The third kind is like me before the last election: they probably will see it, they want it to be good, but they're so nervous aobut it that they're looking for any small problem that they think they perceive and are blowing it up way out of proportion to feed their pessimism.

Folks, I was sure that McCain was goiung to find some way to cheat himself to the presidency. I really wanted Obama to win but I was so nervous and pessimistic that I looked for any small problem I could find to justify giving up.

I think there are some people who feel the same way about this movie. They want to like it but they have this weird pessimism that forces them to actually say that a space drill or a ship being built on Earth or some little gizmo on the bridge is going to make the movie good or bad, when any reasonable person knows none of these things have more than a marginal effect on the quality of the movie.

So, my advice is, relax. Obama won.

 

[Psion]

Bingo! The Narada will be dropping "red matter" (a fictitious miracle substance) that will msot likely create a singularity when it mixes with the core materials of Vulcan.

I know I've heard the "red matter" rumor before, but this is the first time I'm paying attention to it. Is this supposed to be a futuristic red mercury ... a weird substance supposedly used to create Soviet nukes back in the 1980's?