Self-Repair Ships

[roguephoenix]

could it be possible to tie in replicator and transport capability to certain areas of the ship so that the ship can actually do some self maintenance? maybe tie in scaled down replicators in certain areas that have site to site transport capability? hull breach on deck 8? not anymore? power conduits on decks 5 to 7 are blown? not anymore? maybe it's a feature they should add to the prometheus or other prototype ships as it maybe more handy than more powerful weapons. i mean the computer can even sense when failure is imminent and take care of it before it happens.

or maybe even just temporary repairs as in fitting ship-wide holographic projectors capable of reproducing temporary needed components. of course it has to operate on a separate power system.

just wondering.

 

[The Borg Queen]

It should be. It's pretty much what the Borg do, I expect.

 

[roguephoenix]

It should be. It's pretty much what the Borg do, I expect.

the thing with the borg is that they should't be using that method. they have more advanced capabilities at their disposal - namely nanotech. the federation seem to be still early in that dept so might not be to that level yet.

 

[Timo]

Then again, they do manage to get the Voyager cleaned up between episodes, without using dock facilities.

And "ablative armor" would make little semantic sense unless it really did ablate, that is, unless some of it got blown away by incoming fire. What could be used to replace the ablated mass, if not specialized transporters and replicators?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[GodThingFormerly]

could it be possible to tie in replicator and transport capability to certain areas of the ship so that the ship can actually do some self maintenance?

I once proposed a not-too-dissimilar self-repair mechanism for 23rd century (TMP-era) starships that are catastrophically damaged during galactic exploration missions far from UFP territory, which was to a certain extent subconsciously inspired by Jerome Bixby's sadly unproduced Phase II treatment, Only a Mother.

TGT

 

[Cary L. Brown]

It should be. It's pretty much what the Borg do, I expect.

the thing with the borg is that they should't be using that method. they have more advanced capabilities at their disposal - namely nanotech. the federation seem to be still early in that dept so might not be to that level yet.

Uh... why do you think nanotech (which, to an extent, we already have!) is "more advanced" than energy-based reorganization of matter at the subatomic level?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Then again, they do manage to get the Voyager cleaned up between episodes, without using dock facilities.

And "ablative armor" would make little semantic sense unless it really did ablate, that is, unless some of it got blown away by incoming fire. What could be used to replace the ablated mass, if not specialized transporters and replicators?

Timo Saloniemi

The only issue with this is that transporters and replicators don't create mass from nothing... they simply move mass around and reorganize it. So if the ablative armor is blown off... and the ship is in what's effectively a perfect vacuum... what do you use to replace the armor? Unnecessary crewmembers?

 

[Unicron]

I was actually thinking recently about the idea of a dedicated mobile repair ship, one designed specifically to travel and repair other vessels, or aid in their construction. BattleTech has such a design, the Faslane class, and it was essentially conceived as a sort of mobile shipyard for exactly those sorts of missions. This to me seems somewhat more practical than the mobile drydocks which appear in the FASA RPG and Jackill's works.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

this sounds like a slippery slope in the crazy world of Star Trek. I foresee 1 of 2 things happening:

1. the ship goes haywire and nobody can stop it (TOS "The Ultimate Computer")

2. The ship becomes so advanced that it literally becomes self aware, leading to moral and ethical dilemmas about creating life and exploiting ships and ships' rights etc....

 

[Wingsley]

If you look at TNG's "Up the Long Ladder", Riker says "the ship is capable of cleaning itself". This suggests either some rudimentary level of quasi-automation (maintenance robots) or some other unseen form of technology. In Vonda McIntyre's novelization of TMP2, she writes that Scotty tried to use a "repair robot" to fix the damaged main power system, but the excessive radiation caused the robot to freeze up.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

Roombas!

 

[roguephoenix]

It should be. It's pretty much what the Borg do, I expect.

the thing with the borg is that they should't be using that method. they have more advanced capabilities at their disposal - namely nanotech. the federation seem to be still early in that dept so might not be to that level yet.

Uh... why do you think nanotech (which, to an extent, we already have!) is "more advanced" than energy-based reorganization of matter at the subatomic level?

just cause one is more technologically advanced doesn't mean it's better. having nanotech would make the ship more organic. nanotech ships can be basically whatever they want them to be. though probably i shouldn't have said "better" rather "more appropriate" as it is their tech of choice.

Then again, they do manage to get the Voyager cleaned up between episodes, without using dock facilities.

And "ablative armor" would make little semantic sense unless it really did ablate, that is, unless some of it got blown away by incoming fire. What could be used to replace the ablated mass, if not specialized transporters and replicators?

Timo Saloniemi

The only issue with this is that transporters and replicators don't create mass from nothing... they simply move mass around and reorganize it. So if the ablative armor is blown off... and the ship is in what's effectively a perfect vacuum... what do you use to replace the armor? Unnecessary crewmembers?

now we have found new uses for the red shirts! (or gold shirts in tng era) lol

 

[roguephoenix]

or like i previously stated on an emh discussion, emergency engineering holograms. i suspect ship damage is a lot easier to assess an try to repair more than an organic body where one is different from the other. at least with a ship or tech, most things and problems and solutions are uniform more or less. you would just have to have emitters capable of functioning in extreme environmental situations, though i don't think that would be too touch with proper physical and/or energy based shielding.

still... it would be slower than a self repair using replication and site to site transport. the ship need not have full ai capability. just basic repair functions. probably the only time it could potentially become problematic is if it included a "self preservation" subroutines which would make it not follow through on dangerous situations where it could be damaged or potentially destroyed. might even kill the crew to follow that directive. however, without that drive, it would simply be just another ship function using nothing more than what the ship already has - sensors to detect problems, replicators to produce what's needed, transport mechanism to deliver objects where needed. they have all the tech. all that's needed is the proper program to tie all 3 and make use. don't think it's beyond their programming capability as they have successfully created a sentient holographic being (or more. not sure if all emh are sentient).

 

[kv1at3485]

You wouldn't need emergency engineering holograms. Having tools and material being moved and manipulated invisibly by so-called "holoemitters" would be sufficient. Whether the emitters are attached to the ship or each tool has its own, up to you.

The hologram is merely the user-friendly interface for the program. This is important for an EMH. Not so important for an auto-repair system.

 

[roguephoenix]

just interesting that their engineers have thought about so many things but not using their existing tech to create a prototype self repairing ship.

 

[Timo]

I'd argue that all TNG era ships are already self-repairing. After all, all "repair" work we have seen conducted has consisted of pressing buttons or, in the rare occasion, of manually closing down a valve that is leaking thick white smoke. The buttons would have to connect to some sort of repair system capable of undoing actual physical damage.

Whether that system consists of a roomful of redshirts waiting for their orders to be button-pushed onto their duty roster screen, or an army of robots ranging from nanosized to gargantuan, or a set of forcefield-based "virtual" arms and tools, or a mixture of all of the above, remains unknown. But some of the above must be in use to allow the ships to recover from severe damage as demonstrated.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Silversmok3]

Self repair isn't some high-iota tech.Nissan makes a car whose paint can self-repair scratches .Just pour water over the scratch.Lol

Back to trek,ships would HAVE to self repair to an extent to function.On a warp capable starship there will be places where living people cannot go due to radiation/accessability issues.


As far as making a ship that can repair itself,undertstand that tech has limits.To use the paint example ,if the metal part the paint sits on is damaged that self-repair feature is useless.

A ship that can replicate and install/grow the parts to where it's needed would be a great feature to replace worn out parts(which on a starship wouldn't be too many) ,but in a battle or situatuion where a ship is severely damaged good old elbow grease will probably be the only possible fix.

I do like the idea of a salvage ship,though I can't imagine too many Starfleet ships getting into trouble often enough to need a fleet of em.

 

[Timo]

...Salvage ships are a staple of many Trek RPGs and computer games. And their role there would be easier than that of seagoing salvage ships. Starships don't sink, after all. And securing them for towing even after catastrophic damage would be quite a bit easier than securing a structure immersed in water. Not to mention that the feeblest ship could tow the largest hulk, albeit slowly - there would be no "threshold horsepowerage" involved - so reassembling the bits and pieces might be relatively easy.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Silversmok3]

...Salvage ships are a staple of many Trek RPGs and computer games. And their role there would be easier than that of seagoing salvage ships. Starships don't sink, after all. And securing them for towing even after catastrophic damage would be quite a bit easier than securing a structure immersed in water. Not to mention that the feeblest ship could tow the largest hulk, albeit slowly - there would be no "threshold horsepowerage" involved - so reassembling the bits and pieces might be relatively easy.

Timo Saloniemi

True ,but the challenges change.For example ,in order for a starship to require a tow if must be seriousl y damaged(read power or warp core failure) or have suffered a failure beyond the ability of the ships chief engineer to solve.

These salvage ships would still need some swift engines,'cause broken starships need quick attention before people start dying from the breakdown .

(An example is in ST:Voyage Home when the alien probe neutralized the USS Saratoga,and the chief engineer was attempting to jury rig a solar sail to keep the crew alive)

I'd imagine it would need to be structured firestation style,with fast and powerful salvage ships standing by in case a ship dials subspace 911.Given that Starfleet ships don't break that often its probably gonna be a boring post lol...

 

[GodThingFormerly]

(An example is in ST:Voyage Home when the alien probe neutralized the USS Saratoga,and the chief engineer was attempting to jury rig a solar sail to keep the crew alive)

I've long wondered about this. How was a solar sail supposed to extend the Saratoga's life-support system capacity?

TGT