The New Enterprise Reveald

[Clawhammer]

This movie will not fail because Trek fans go see it or not, it's whether or not the casual fan will, the people who are not on message boards, and the ones who don't care about the changes to the ship. I don't understand how you can think for one second atleast 20% of the fanbase won't see this movie based on the ship design? If thats true we deserved to be made fun of then.

I agree but I can feel the "pain" of hardcore Trek fans as well, certainly from people who worked on the older shows, imagine you designed something and nobody even asked your advice when they are designing the same thing "again". If I ever get the assignment to recreate an existing or perhaps even new Enterprise, the first thing I would do is contact people that worked on the show to see if there are any thoughts about what direction to go. Sternbach is pretty right, when a design is done, you always see a couple of things that could have been done better. The same goes for the new E. I at the moment have a neutral opinion on the new ship. I think the ship as a CGI model shows really a new level of quality. In terms of design, I dont know. It´s like 1 designer thought about going organic, but another 1 thought about going more like the old route, and then both compromised and compromised till this was the end result. The question remains ofcourse: if this isnt right for the diehards, what design would have been?

I would never have touched it, take the script, change the characters into new persons, move up to 2390, nobody in your way, no community attacks, and almost everybody would be happy about it. Connect some of the storylines to the past and Voila! The general young new audiance doesnt really care what captain they are looking at, and the Trekkies would have a whole new timeperiod open for exploration, without people getting upset about touching "TOS". Anyway I'm going to watch it, looking forward to the action.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

This movie will not fail because Trek fans go see it or not, it's whether or not the casual fan will, the people who are not on message boards, and the ones who don't care about the changes to the ship. I don't understand how you can think for one second atleast 20% of the fanbase won't see this movie based on the ship design? If thats true we deserved to be made fun of then.

Well, c'mon... if they find out that even the "really geeky types" don't care for it (as was the case with Nemesis) it's not likely that they'll go swarming in just to see what the "geeks" dislike, is it?

Nemesis lost the fans... and that hurt the flick among non-fans.

 

[ST-One]

TVH, TWOK, FC and TMP?
They didn't try to attract a broader audience?

TMP seemed to not want an audience at all, honestly. :P

But, more seriously, of course they want as big of an audience as possible, but they never decided that 'ditching the fans completely' was a good approach.

Now, there was one Trek movie that explicitly did that... let's seee, that one was... oh yeah, that's right, Nemesis, and look how well that turned out.

Nemesis was the biggest fan-wank we've ever got - and yeah, look how that turned out.

 

[Vance]

Nemesis was the biggest fan-wank we've ever got - and yeah, look how that turned out.

Dude. Seriously. For all your flaming and attacks and everything, do you really even know anything about Trek?

Nemesis was the most 'dumbed down', most deliberately 'canon-violating' of all the flicks. It was explicitly the 'anti-fan' movie, with all the 'kewl crap' they could throw in it. The Beebs even stated that as their goal.

Before you start making noises, it would help you immensely if you were wiser in your choice of orafice to use in making them.

 

[ThunderAeroI]

I'd agree that Nemesis was in no way pointed towards the fans. Nemesis problem was they had too much Star Wars envy and went a clone route when we already had a move about clones (Ep 2 and 3).

A Nemesis for the fans would have probably included Lore as B4 and from there the story would take an interesting turn for the better I think. Get ride of the clones and the Nemesis would be Lore as Datas Nemesis... I like that story already.

 

[ST-One]

Nemesis was the biggest fan-wank we've ever got - and yeah, look how that turned out.

Dude. Seriously. For all your flaming and attacks and everything, do you really even know anything about Trek?

Nemesis was the most 'dumbed down', most deliberately 'canon-violating' of all the flicks. It was explicitly the 'anti-fan' movie, with all the 'kewl crap' they could throw in it. The Beebs even stated that as their goal.

Before you start making noises, it would help you immensely if you were wiser in your choice of orafice to use in making them.

I didn't say anthing about canon. I used the term 'fan-wank'.

BTW: As for talking out of ones ass: Casino Royale made over $ 600 million.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm sorry...who are you, again?

I'm the movie's target audience.

No.

 

[Vance]

BTW: As for talking out of ones ass: Casino Royale made over $ 600 million.

No, it made UNDER that amount at this point, at $593,000,000. It did break Die Another Day's records, though, for a Bond film gross. This was in global sales, though, which means it was absolutely non-existant to the billion-dollar grossing Iron Man and Transformers movies...

But, ya know, honesty was never your strong suit.

 

[Ptrope]

Well, the trailer looks fantastic...and the vast majority of people who've seen about twenty percent of the actual film are very, very positive about it. So there's no reason so far to expect bad things.

And I'm sure we can count on you to hate and flame everyone who dares disagree or just voices their concern for the months ahead, right? :P

Vance, any more like that, and you'll be the one getting the warning for flaming. Argue with the statements, not the members.

 

[Vance]

Vance, any more like that, and you'll be the one getting the warning for flaming. Argue with the statements, not the members.

I've already ignored the individuals that I've been spatting with. But, though I'm sorry to have gone down that road a bit, can you blame me with how the attacks have been coming en masse from these guys?

 

[Ptrope]

Alright, everyone - keep your eye on the ball. Argue with the posts, not with the members. There are more than enough threads on this board about every aspect of the trailer and the ship - closing this one isn't going to be that big of a loss, if you don't behave like adults. Either present a good argument for your point, or shut up. This includes the emoticons, too - a is as good as flame going forward.

Are we clear?

 

[Vance]

Alright, everyone - keep your eye on the ball.

AVENGE ME!

:>

 

[Tom Servo]

This movie will not fail because Trek fans go see it or not, it's whether or not the casual fan will, the people who are not on message boards, and the ones who don't care about the changes to the ship. I don't understand how you can think for one second atleast 20% of the fanbase won't see this movie based on the ship design? If thats true we deserved to be made fun of then.

Well, c'mon... if they find out that even the "really geeky types" don't care for it (as was the case with Nemesis) it's not likely that they'll go swarming in just to see what the "geeks" dislike, is it?

Nemesis lost the fans... and that hurt the flick among non-fans.

You think that if average public finds out that Trek fans don't like it, then they won't go see it? I don't think so, not for even a second. I know many people who are scifi and Trek fans, not to the extreme of coming onto message boards and talking about it, but who know there way around the franchise, and all of them are excited for this movie.

It seems to me that many of the people who hate this movie (before it is out none the less), are the ones who are pissed off that they didn't make a carbon copy of TOS, and I don't understand why they think they would. This film is made for people who know the pop culture image of Star Trek and its fans, as a nerdy group of people who dress as Klingons, to show them that the show is not just a bunch of talking heads on a ship, and can be quite entertaining and vibrant. It just seems people are making shit up to bitch about for the sake of bitching. I mean when it was first announced everyone cried about how it would be "dark" and "gritty" like new BSG. Hell remember when the shuttle set pictures were released, and people saw dirt on the floor? They freaked. Now we know the general look of the film, and its not gritty and dirty, but its vibrant and bright, in the spirit of TOS.

I see this movie made for people like this, as a personal example. I am not a comic fan, and I'm not a big Batman fan, but damn when Batman Begins came out, it looked good, so me and friends went to see it. It was a damn good film, and then when The Dark Knight came out I was excited to see that as well, and that was an excellent film. I knew none of the mythology of Batman, or any of the canon related with it, but I saw a damn good film, and those two films I support, and bought the DVDs of, not because I am a Batman fan, but because I thought they were good movies

I am in college right now, and I'm sure college students fall into the target audience of this film. Many people who know I am a Trek fan have come up to me and said that the new film looks good, or "kewl" (as some people write because they think they are talking to those who like the film from a position of authority), and that they will see it. I has nothing to do with people accepting me, or that I am glad being a fan of Star Trek is cool. They are my friends already, and I am glad that they saw something they are interested in and want to go see.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

You think that if average public finds out that Trek fans don't like it, then they won't go see it? I don't think so, not for even a second.

Of course it's not true. No one on the bloody planet outside of devoted "Star Trek" fans was champing at the bit for a "Star Trek" movie in 2002. "Nemesis" was a mediocre film, even by Trek standards, so of course no one but the hard core turned out to see it (and most all of them did. That's why it made the 40 million or so that it did).

Obviously if the film had gotten decent word of mouth from the people who went to see it some other folks might have checked it out, from curiosity. That said, bad reviews from mainstream reviewers - not the "trekkie at the office" - killed whatever minimal public interest there might have been otherwise.

Abrams' movie is not facing either apathy or a major revolt from trekkies - if you count posts, or look at polls, or surf around the Internet and check out the various boards you'll find seven or eight out of ten intend to see the movie in the theater - and you can bet that some of the folks who are saying they won't right now actually will. And bearing in mind that people who dislike something are more likely to be aggressively vocal in their opinions than folks who are satisfied - it's human nature - you can safely figure that even at the observed level the serious discontent is being over-represented.

 

[Ptrope]

I think the general public bought the revamped Batman because it looked like an interesting thriller. I just don't see that in the trailer for Star Trek - ignoring all of the changes, all of the contradictions that only matter to fans, it still looks like the sort of stuff associated with Star Trek that turns off the non-fans. Other than the Corvette scene - and I just don't see people saying, "Wow! That kid driving a Corvette off a cliff and then enunciating his name with all the bravado and skill of Jake Lloyd really makes me want to see that movie!" After that, it's all, "Huh! It's either the new Transformers movie or - wait, it says Star Trek at the end. Well, I guess that's ... whuh? May 2009? Why the hell are they advertising this 6 months ahead of time? Are they that desperate?"

The hype on this movie is schizophrenic - this long a lead is aimed squarely at the fans, the only group who will care 6 months ahead of time. But ... it's made for "people who love movies," right? - presumably, people who love Michael Bay and, yes, J.J. Abrams movies; I don't see those as people who actually "love movies" so much as people who love "goofy shit with lots of 'splosions." Which I'll admit is a commerciallly-viable group! So why not just make a movie for them, from scratch, instead of trying to spoon-feed them StarTrek, just because it used to be a hot property at Paramount? If its time has come, let it die - as the people cheerleading this movie keep saying, "this movie won't change everything that's come befoire, so if you don't like it, watch the old shows." Turning it into something that isn't Star Trek, just so the "franchise" can make money, is pointless to the bottom line of a studio - it doesn't matter what makes money, as long as it makes money, so why not create something new that will have at least the same odds of success and none of the baggage? To hear Paramount and, frankly, Abrams talk, there are more negative connotations to Star Trek than positive ones, so it seems pretty stupid to think making something that even slightly resembles Star Trek - even worse, marketing it by the name! - is going to somehow flip that ratio around.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The long lead is actually aimed mainly at the foreign press and at non-Trek fans. The studio wants to generate positive buzz in nations where Trek has not done well in the past as well as to draw in new ticketbuyers here, and the way they're doing it is to try to demonstrate that this is distinct from what used to be called "Star Trek" movies. Showing them a signficant portion of it is one way to do that.

Judging from the reporting that has been done on the presentations, they're largely succeeding. The buzz has been high for the last couple of weeks, and almost all positive.

Although...I suppose that a certain amount of outraged catewauling from fans wouldn't hurt too much either. First, shrieking from the faithful would communicate pretty effectively that this is something unexpected. Second, opposition to a movie based on outrage from some group or another often works to the film's publicity benefit. It's unlikely, though, that provoking trekkies is quite as intriguing to the general public as provoking, say, catholics or social conservatives is.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

It's a good point that as successive trailers appear, and you know there will be more than one, they will be more focused on explosions, scantily clad women, fist fights, and Kirk bumping nasties with hot alien women. That's what Star Trek is all about anyway, isn't it?

Oh, damn! I was looking at promos from the 60's TV show!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's a good point that as successive trailers appear, and you know there will be more than one, they will be more focused on explosions, scantily clad women, fist fights, and Kirk bumping nasties with hot alien women. That's what Star Trek is all about anyway, isn't it?

Oh, damn! I was looking at promos from the 60's TV show!

They were usually misleading anyway.

You know, if there was one punch thrown in an episode, it was guaranteed to make its way into the preview.

 

[Ptrope]

It's a good point that as successive trailers appear, and you know there will be more than one, they will be more focused on explosions, scantily clad women, fist fights, and Kirk bumping nasties with hot alien women. That's what Star Trek is all about anyway, isn't it?

Oh, damn! I was looking at promos from the 60's TV show!

They were usually misleading anyway.

You know, if there was one punch thrown in an episode, it was guaranteed to make its way into the preview.

Following that logic, then, the new trailer is misleading - so the movie will be the stuff that the mainstream audience doesn't care for nor give a damn about, and the fans - both of them - are going to get what they really wanted. Okay, I see where you're going with this. J.J does understand!

Explain to me again how this is going to make the movie a success? At least, after the opening weekend? My brain's starting to hurt ...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's a good point that as successive trailers appear, and you know there will be more than one, they will be more focused on explosions, scantily clad women, fist fights, and Kirk bumping nasties with hot alien women. That's what Star Trek is all about anyway, isn't it?

Oh, damn! I was looking at promos from the 60's TV show!

They were usually misleading anyway.

You know, if there was one punch thrown in an episode, it was guaranteed to make its way into the preview.

Following that logic, then, the new trailer is misleading - so the movie will be the stuff that the mainstream audience doesn't care for nor give a damn about

Logic? Even if the first statement is true - that the trailer's "misleading" - the second statement doesn't necessarily follow. It could turn out to be "Cloverfield II - Plowing Miss Saldana."

Probably not.