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Star Trek Completely Reimagined

vedek

Commander
Red Shirt
It's been over 40 years since we first saw Captain Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise flash across the screen. Now, we see a completely new Star Trek, reimagined for the 21st Century. I want everyones opinion on this one, please. Do you think after 40 years of Star Trek, it's time to shed the old look, idea and feel of Star Trek, and start over from scratch and completely reimagine everything?...The New Star Trek
 
It's been over 40 years since we first saw Captain Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise flash across the screen. Now, we see a completely new Star Trek, reimagined for the 21st Century. I want everyones opinion on this one, please. Do you think after 40 years of Star Trek, it's time to shed the old look, idea and feel of Star Trek, and start over from scratch and completely reimagine everything?...The New Star Trek

All of the technology is very quaint even in the reboot (leaving aside the physics of fantasy tech such as warp drives and transports) - where's the nano tech, the interaction with the physical environment, the physical enhancement, smart clothes etc etc?

Even in the reboot - it's still a man with a gun, a radio and a warship, there is no innovation in the underlying science fiction concepts they are using - but then Star Trek has always been a fairly conservative beast (once you get beyond TOS). Interestingly, the only bit of reimaging that makes use of newer science or science fiction concepts is the presence of what appears to be em.. thingys.. I forget the word for the big housing complexes we saw in the distance....
 
Yeah, I agree. After almost ten years (;)) it's about time they do something completely new.
 
No, they should only do CGI films from now on with hyper-realistic computerized characters which look exactly like Shatner, Nimoy, Kelly, etc. circa 1966, and all the movies should feature the Borg and the Breen and the guy with the ears from "The Way To Eden."
 
Hey, let's be nice to "The Way to Eden" - after suffering through ENT, I finally realized just how much better that episode was written than it seemed, certainly better than any ENT episode; it was just the hokey outfits and protest songs that made it chucklesome - the idea itself was sound.

I'm just saddened by the huge contingent of Trek fans who seem to be so lacking in imagination that they can't even imagine that not all stories have been told, despite the fact that I'm sure they see stories that are new to them every day on other shows. If it can be told, it can be told in Star Trek - there's never been any shortage of tales, only a shortage of commitment to telling them.
 
Hey, let's be nice to "The Way to Eden" - after suffering through ENT, I finally realized just how much better that episode was written than it seemed, certainly better than any ENT episode; it was just the hokey outfits and protest songs that made it chucklesome - the idea itself was sound.

Indeed, it was a nice allegory regarding the dangers of charismatic leaders and idealism taken too far.

I'm just saddened by the huge contingent of Trek fans who seem to be so lacking in imagination that they can't even imagine that not all stories have been told, despite the fact that I'm sure they see stories that are new to them every day on other shows. If it can be told, it can be told in Star Trek - there's never been any shortage of tales, only a shortage of commitment to telling them.

How do you figure there's a huge contingent of Trek fans thinking that all stories have been told? People are remarkably eager to get at the new story promised in the movie, and at the prospect that many more new tales will follow it.
 
I'd actually love to seem more Science fiction in the films but I doubt we are going to get that as it doesn't seem to play well with the mainstream audiences.
 
I'm just saddened by the huge contingent of Trek fans who seem to be so lacking in imagination that they can't even imagine that not all stories have been told.

I agree with you in spirit --

but all stories HAVE been told...and retold -- at least according to the writer Georges Polti who said there are only 36 dramatic situations (plus one added by someone else = 37).

HOWEVER...It has always been my contention that it's not the story you tell but how you tell it that can distinguish a bad story from a good one. In the film world, it's not the plot of your movie, but how well that plot is executed (how well is it directed, acted, scored musically, etc). I have seen many great story ideas that were part of bad films, and many seemingly un-inventive stories turned into great films.
 
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How do you figure there's a huge contingent of Trek fans thinking that all stories have been told? People are remarkably eager to get at the new story promised in the movie, and at the prospect that many more new tales will follow it.
The overwhelming majority of member posts that I see here that are happy with a reimagining (a majority of posting members, it appears) claim that it 'must' be done because either all of the potential stories in the original settings have been done, or because canon is so 'burdensome' that there is no way to tell stories that don't violate it - again, an excuse that there are no new stories. I completely disagree with this, just as I disagreed with these claims when ENT was on the air - while I agree that some aspects of canon are contradictory amongst themselves, I don't believe in any way that it is impossible, nor even especially difficult, to tell original stories to this franchise that fit within the established facts. The problem I see is that the more recent writers, and so many fans, are so intent upon focusing only on those things with which they are already familiar - characters, settings and events - that they blind themselves to the rest of the available universe. Even this film is not, IMHO, a "new story" - it's back story to other people, places and events, and in that context, sure, it can be a bitch to tell the tale without slipping up.

Let's face it: it's not like there isn't such a huge resource available to check on these things - millions of fans, among which tens of thousands probably know the number of eyelashes Spock has in any given episode - that there's no excuse for any professional to say, "Well, how could we know that was an issue?" Hire some fans for fact checkers! Go on the Internet! Come to this board! The answers aren't particularly difficult to find. And we probably would work pretty cheaply! :techman:

I guess I'm just one of those people who doesn't agree with the approach of, "This is the story I want to tell, and these are the details I want to use, and if they don't fit the facts, the facts are wrong, and I have no intention or desire to rethink - and maybe even improve - my story." To me, that's not just a lazy approach, it's an arrogant one (well-worn by Bermaga). But the one I would prefer to see is for someone to say, "Hey, isn't Star Trek supposedly about 'where no man has gone before?' Then why the heck do we keep regurgitating the stuff we've already seen?" Quit talking about stuff we already know, or places we've already been, while telling us, "Ahh, but I'm so clever, I can tell you why what you thought you knew 'ain't necessarily so,' and you'll be so impressed by me." I'd be a heckuva lot more impressed by someone who said, "Have we never turned left here? Why not? We're going left this time, and finding out what is there." If you make that left turn, I guarantee that you can do it and never have to worry about violating anything that came before - it's only when you won't leave your own block that you have to worry about retracing your steps.

EDIT to add: Jackson_Roykirk, you're exactly right. There may be a limited number of basic plots, but the combination of settings, characters and events can make even a time-worn story feel fresh - just as a poorly-told version can make you want to poke your eyes out. Look at all the variants on Groundhog Day - Stargate SG1 had a great one ("Window of Opportunity"), while ENT did a truly miserable version of it in, I think, the same season! And yet, last season, Supernatural went to that well and brought up wine instead of merely water. Nearly every modern series has told that story, and it was only in how it was written that we got either gold or garbage.
 
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No, they should only do CGI films from now on with hyper-realistic computerized characters which look exactly like Shatner, Nimoy, Kelly, etc. circa 1966, and all the movies should feature the Borg and the Breen and the guy with the ears from "The Way To Eden."
Breen Borg would be teh awesome.
 
I'd actually love to seem more Science fiction in the films but I doubt we are going to get that as it doesn't seem to play well with the mainstream audiences.

Yeah, the most successful "real" SF film I can think of is Gattaca, and while critically acclaimed and moderately successful, it was far from a blockbuster.

I really don't think that action/adventure and and sf go well together; space opera and sf get along famously, of course, and IMO that's what Trek has always been: optimistic space opera, with juicy little morsels of social commentary and soft sci-fi thrown in for flavor. And I'm perfectly fine with that.
 
Let's face it: it's not like there isn't such a huge resource available to check on these things - millions of fans, among which tens of thousands probably know the number of eyelashes Spock has in any given episode - that there's no excuse for any professional to say, "Well, how could we know that was an issue?" Hire some fans for fact checkers! Go on the Internet! Come to this board! The answers aren't particularly difficult to find. And we probably would work pretty cheaply! :techman:.

But what's up on the screen will be the truth, that's the point. The tens of million of people who have never seen before don't care that Kirk drove gears in a piece of the action. The film-makers don't care either, this is an attempt to get back to basics in terms of character and situation - it's not an attempt to score points by getting it "right" with a tiny group of fans. Rightly the film makers have incorporated what they want to incorporate and if it doesn't fit - it's tossed - which is how it should be.
 
I'd actually love to seem more Science fiction in the films but I doubt we are going to get that as it doesn't seem to play well with the mainstream audiences.

Yeah, the most successful "real" SF film I can think of is Gattaca, and while critically acclaimed and moderately successful, it was far from a blockbuster.

I really don't think that action/adventure and and sf go well together; space opera and sf get along famously, of course, and IMO that's what Trek has always been: optimistic space opera, with juicy little morsels of social commentary and soft sci-fi thrown in for flavor. And I'm perfectly fine with that.

Gattaca is a lovely film - what does it mean to be human? What is role for the human spirit in the world of the supermen?

Might have to dig that out and give it another watch.
 
I'm just saddened by the huge contingent of Trek fans who seem to be so lacking in imagination that they can't even imagine that not all stories have been told.

I agree with you in spirit --

but all stories HAVE been told...and retold -- at least according to the writer Georges Polti who said there are only 36 dramatic situations (plus one added by someone else = 37).

HOWEVER...It has always been my contention that it's not the story you tell but how you tell it that can distinguish a bad story from a good one. In the film world, it's not the plot of your movie, but how well that plot is executed (how well is it directed, acted, scored musically, etc). I have seen many great story ideas that were part of bad films, and many seemingly un-inventive stories turned into great films.

"It's not what a movie is about but rather how it is about it." -- Roger Ebert

Wise words I read years ago and they still inform how I evaluate entertainment to this day.
 
But what's up on the screen will be the truth, that's the point. The tens of million of people who have never seen before don't care that Kirk drove gears in a piece of the action. The film-makers don't care either, this is an attempt to get back to basics in terms of character and situation - it's not an attempt to score points by getting it "right" with a tiny group of fans. Rightly the film makers have incorporated what they want to incorporate and if it doesn't fit - it's tossed - which is how it should be.
I disagree - that may be how it is, but IMO, if you feel the 'franchise' is valuable, then cleave to it - why bother with a property that you have no confidence in, which Paramount clearly don't, instead of just creating something unique? I've never understood the concept that only the name is of value, not the actual body of work - if the name of Star Trek is so valuable to Paramount, why not make Star Trek? If you have to change everything to get people interested, then face facts: they aren't interested in Star Trek. There's no "back to basics" about it - it's more "baby with bathwater."
 
It's been over 40 years since we first saw Captain Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise flash across the screen. Now, we see a completely new Star Trek, reimagined for the 21st Century. I want everyones opinion on this one, please. Do you think after 40 years of Star Trek, it's time to shed the old look, idea and feel of Star Trek, and start over from scratch and completely reimagine everything?...The New Star Trek

All of the technology is very quaint even in the reboot (leaving aside the physics of fantasy tech such as warp drives and transports) - where's the nano tech, the interaction with the physical environment, the physical enhancement, smart clothes etc etc?

Even in the reboot - it's still a man with a gun, a radio and a warship, there is no innovation in the underlying science fiction concepts they are using - but then Star Trek has always been a fairly conservative beast (once you get beyond TOS). Interestingly, the only bit of reimaging that makes use of newer science or science fiction concepts is the presence of what appears to be em.. thingys.. I forget the word for the big housing complexes we saw in the distance....

And that is probably the biggest disappointment.

All this condescending talk about the outdatedness of TOS tech and their vision of the future.

All this reassuring about how this would be the most realistic Trek ever and everything so functional.

Where is it?

Dress table lights shining into your eyes, mirror floors in depressing mining shaft like corridors, barcode scanners and Apteras.

I tell you something: the vision of TNG was much more spot on. The idea that extended space travel and its impact on human psychology would require a "warm" environment with earth tones and carpets, while "hiding" the tech in intelligent computer walls and wireless devices, was an incredibly smart one, and the future we are heading into.
 
Hey, let's be nice to "The Way to Eden" - after suffering through ENT, I finally realized just how much better that episode was written than it seemed, certainly better than any ENT episode; it was just the hokey outfits and protest songs that made it chucklesome - the idea itself was sound.

I don't much care for ENT (only watched about half of it), but I still think that this statement is ridiculous.

Not ONE ep of ENT was better than "The Way to Eden"? Seriously? :cardie:
 
Hey, let's be nice to "The Way to Eden" - after suffering through ENT, I finally realized just how much better that episode was written than it seemed, certainly better than any ENT episode; it was just the hokey outfits and protest songs that made it chucklesome - the idea itself was sound.

I don't much care for ENT (only watched about half of it), but I still think that this statement is ridiculous.

Not ONE ep of ENT was better than "The Way to Eden"? Seriously? :cardie:

I experienced the same thing upon seeing "Spock's Brain" after several years of Voyager. "Hey ... that wasn't as bad as I remember it! I wonder what's ... changed ... oh." It isn't that the writing behind the worst episodes of TOS somehow aged well, it's that the average writing of the later Trek series was actually worse. There are some excellent exceptions in both Voyager and Enterprise. But the difference is that the good episodes became the exception rather than the rule.
 
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