Trek canon is dead. Thanx JJ!

[ROBE]

The two Peter Cushing movies were remakes of two television stories and are not viewed as canon. The Paul McGann TV movie is viewed as canon except the bit when the Doctor claims to be half-human. The current TV series is viewed as a continuation of the original series, although the Time War may well have altered certain events.

 

[Chris227]

Regarding WHO canon, I think the only thing that 'doesn't count' are the novels and audios. Mainly because a lot of them have been adapted to the new series-the whole destruction of Gallifrey, Human Nature, Jubilee etc. and it's kind of weird to have the same events, or similar ones twice. Paul Cornell, who wrote the essay, contributed a LOT to the novel line....


But the timeline flux thing has merit. The Doctor changed things when he brought down Harriet Jones, leading "Harold Saxon" to take over. And then there's the whole year thing.

Doctor who's canon has had it's share of continuity problems over the years-the origins of the Daleks, exactly when the UNIT stories take place etc. but it's been fairly consistent otherwise.


Star Trek has had it's share of continuity issues too. The whole Klingon thing, the "United Earth space probe agency" etc.

 

[Chaos Descending]

The fallacy lies in assuming that all consistency is foolish.

On the contrary, the aphorism specifies foolish consistency as distinct from simply consistency.

What we're saying - some of us - is that the obsession with Trek canon is, indeed, of the foolish kind.

The fallacy lies in assuming that all consistency is foolish.

Which would be, one assumes, why Emerson specifically said it is only foolish consistency which is a problem.

What is more foolish than requiring adherence to a consistency which never existed?

That was exactly my point. I guess I could have expressed myself better.

 

[Basil]

A lot of young people will see this film who have never had a brush with Trek before. I'd love to know what they think of a large group of ageing fans in the background, tying themselves in knots over every canon infraction. Laugh? I think so.

Better for them to remember the moment for their turn -- when someone mucks up something they've loved and respected for years and people say, "Who cares?" becauses it's just entertainment.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

A lot of young people will see this film who have never had a brush with Trek before. I'd love to know what they think of a large group of ageing fans in the background, tying themselves in knots over every canon infraction. Laugh? I think so.

Better for them to remember the moment for their turn -- when someone mucks up something they've loved and respected for years and people say, "Who cares?" becauses it's just entertainment.

If they're reasonably well-balanced they'll accept - perhaps with a little rueful and self-aware annoyance - that the world has continued to turn as always and that this is to be expected.

If they're less sensible, they may post a lot of bitter nonsense on the Internet instead.

 

[ROBE]

As long as there is a reason for continuity change, such as different timeline I am fine. Now don't get me started on the Harry Potter movies.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Now don't get me started on the Harry Potter movies.

Okay.

 

[Penta]

Oh, I *liked* the HP movies. What about them?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Oh, I *liked* the HP movies. What about them?

Please, he asked you not to get him started. Let's respect that.

 

[BenRoethig]

After 40 years, 11 movies and 6 tv series, does anyone really care about canon anymore?

This is a bit different

Spoiler: Major plot spoilers for the few who don't already know

It wipes out all those 40 years, 10 movies, and 5 TV series in one fell swoop. Enterprise still counts because it was before that. Nero makes major changes to the timeline. Those changes cause the major characters to have very different pasts and are in many ways very different people than the ones we saw in TOS. The Enterprise is built much later. Kirk enters Starfleet over a decade later and his previous postings on the Farragut and Repbulic are replaced with time being the town drunk. Scotty is a screw up banished to a distant outpost and Sulu is a fighter instead of the level headed officer we know..

 

[Ovation]

After 40 years, 11 movies and 6 tv series, does anyone really care about canon anymore?

This is a bit different

Spoiler: Major plot spoilers for the few who don't already know

It wipes out all those 40 years, 10 movies, and 5 TV series in one fell swoop. Enterprise still counts because it was before that. Nero makes major changes to the timeline. Those changes cause the major characters to have very different pasts and are in many ways very different people than the ones we saw in TOS. The Enterprise is built much later. Kirk enters Starfleet over a decade later and his previous postings on the Farragut and Repbulic are replaced with time being the town drunk. Scotty is a screw up banished to a distant outpost and Sulu is a fighter instead of the level headed officer we know..

Apart from the speculative distortions in your "spoiler", in what way do things get

Spoiler: potential spoilers in response to originally cited spoilers

wiped out in one fell swoop? Is someone coming to steal your DVDs and such? No? You mean "in-universe" all is irrelevant? How about reading it as everything happens as it did, which leads to Nero making his choice to tamper with the timeline (how else would he have concluded it needed to be tampered with in the first place?) and thus those 40 years are VITALLY IMPORTANT to get to the new film? It's not like the timeline hasn't already been altered numerous times already in the Trek universe.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

A lot of young people will see this film who have never had a brush with Trek before. I'd love to know what they think of a large group of ageing fans in the background, tying themselves in knots over every canon infraction. Laugh? I think so.

Better for them to remember the moment for their turn -- when someone mucks up something they've loved and respected for years and people say, "Who cares?" becauses it's just entertainment.

How do you "muck up" something that has never tried very hard to be internally consistent to begin with?

Or, in other words, are Trill symbiots harmed by transporter beams (as in TNG's "The Host") or not (as in all of DS9)?

 

[DaveyNY]

I always thought the Trill were just like Dr. McCoy and just hated to get BEAMED, so that guy in TNG just lied about that???

But that's a different thread.



(yeah... what He says below...)

 

[Cary L. Brown]

A lot of young people will see this film who have never had a brush with Trek before. I'd love to know what they think of a large group of ageing fans in the background, tying themselves in knots over every canon infraction. Laugh? I think so.

Better for them to remember the moment for their turn -- when someone mucks up something they've loved and respected for years and people say, "Who cares?" becauses it's just entertainment.

How do you "muck up" something that has never tried very hard to be internally consistent to begin with?

Or, in other words, are Trill symbiots harmed by transporter beams (as in TNG's "The Host") or not (as in all of DS9)?

They're only harmed if they're carried by the lumpy-headed Trill type, not the spotty-headed ones.

See? Easy!

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Yeah, but see the different types of hosts are a problem too, 'cause everybody knows that in the Trek verse all aliens from a planet look exactly alike - no ethnicities or variations at all. They even dress alike.

Except Tuvok. We still don't know where that freak came from.

 

[JoeZhang]

Yeah, but see the different types of hosts are a problem too, 'cause everybody knows that in the Trek verse all aliens from a planet look exactly alike - no ethnicities or variations at all. They even dress alike.

Except Tuvok. We still don't know where that freak came from.

I really want to see a vulcan with a mo-hawk.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Except Tuvok. We still don't know where that freak came from.

Frownians are closely related to Vulcans.

 

[Ovation]

Except Tuvok. We still don't know where that freak came from.

He's the bastard child of Mr. Spot and the hooker at the alien brothel with black skin, pointy ears and bat-wings as both seen in Galaxina. I thought everyone knew that.

 

[JoeZhang]

Except Tuvok. We still don't know where that freak came from.

He's the bastard child of Mr. Spot and the hooker at the alien brothel with black skin, pointy ears and bat-wings as both seen in Galaxina. I thought everyone knew that.

Why is Mr. Tuvok black?

"We do not discuss it with outsiders."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yeah, but see the different types of hosts are a problem too, 'cause everybody knows that in the Trek verse all aliens from a planet look exactly alike - no ethnicities or variations at all. They even dress alike.

To be fair, they did start introducing racial variation into the aliens in the fourth year of TNG ("First Contact" to be exact, though only among extras in that episode). Ethnic/racial variation among aliens tended to be exactly like Earth, of course - Europeanoids and asianoids, for instance - but I think that was because the point of doing it was to facilitate "colorblind casting" rather than to give aliens more variety.