Nero and Vulcan (speculation) (spoilers, too)

[blaXXer]

Sorry for not including the "spoilers" bit in the title thread! I assumed everybody knew this from Empire...

Nah, I only read the Empire spoilers to the point where they mention Uhura drinking kanar, and I lost it over such a blatant disregard for continuity and canon.

Did JJ rape your childhood, too?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Sorry for not including the "spoilers" bit in the title thread! I assumed everybody knew this from Empire...

Nah, I only read the Empire spoilers to the point where they mention Uhura drinking kanar, and I lost it over such a blatant disregard for continuity and canon.

Did JJ rape your childhood, too?

Actually, the only issue I have with this is that there's no reason (other than "fanwankery") to mention what the drink IS.

As has been pointed out probably a million times, so far... the average non-Trek-fan won't know, or CARE, what "Kanar" is. They could have her drinking a "Jovian Sunspot" or anything else and the movie would be unchanged.

The ONLY reason to call it "Kanar" would be to play to the hardcore fans... and the hardcore fans are the only ones who'd know that this was wrong. So... if it's actually there, it's there only to piss off the hardcore fans... right?

 

[Gepard]

So... if it's actually there, it's there only to piss off the hardcore fans... right?

Or maybe the screenwriters, being huge Star Trek geeks, decided to slip in references to other series because they thought it would be fun?

 

[number6]

So... if it's actually there, it's there only to piss off the hardcore fans... right?

Or maybe the screenwriters, being huge Star Trek geeks, decided to slip in references to other series because they thought it would be fun?

That's a shame. I love watching hardcore fans get all pissed off about stuff like this.

 

[Timo]

The spoilers don't use the word "Kanar", they use the word "Cardassian". And as said, neither of them would be wrong. Hell, when TNG first introduced the Cardassians, it introduced them as an old enemy, just like TOS introduced the Romulans and the Klingons. Of course Earthlings have known about these people since time immemoriam!

As for Pike being Kirk's mentor, it's not exactly forbidden. In TOS "The Menagerie", Commodore Mendez asks if Kirk has ever met Pike. Kirk doesn't say "Yes, you dumbass, sir, he has been my mentor since I had my first zits!", he says "When he was promoted to Fleet Captain". But the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Saul]

Nah, I only read the Empire spoilers to the point where they mention Uhura drinking kanar, and I lost it over such a blatant disregard for continuity and canon.

Did JJ rape your childhood, too?

Actually, the only issue I have with this is that there's no reason (other than "fanwankery") to mention what the drink IS.

As has been pointed out probably a million times, so far... the average non-Trek-fan won't know, or CARE, what "Kanar" is. They could have her drinking a "Jovian Sunspot" or anything else and the movie would be unchanged.

The ONLY reason to call it "Kanar" would be to play to the hardcore fans... and the hardcore fans are the only ones who'd know that this was wrong. So... if it's actually there, it's there only to piss off the hardcore fans... right?

But is it actually wrong? There is no confirmed date for the first contact between Cardassians and the Federation. Just speculation that it was in the early 24th Century. Also it's possible that while these two haven't met they could still be aware of each other and through some trading with other races they came upon Kanar.

Any guesses what the climax of the film will be then?

I assume a Kirk v Nero face off of some kind? On a ship? On a planet? With a big spacebattle happening above them?

Speculation spoilers follow...
I think the climax will come after Nero blows up Vulcan because Kirk is sent down to an ice planet while Spock is in command of the Ship. Old Spock gives Kirk some Command codes to remove the unstable young Spock. So considering that Pike is missing and not in command here after flying in his shuttle around Nero's Ship we can assume that he might have bitten the dust, or was injured to the extent that he can no longer command. So I believe that there is another Climax that we don't know about. Possibly Spock Vs Kirk?

I believe what causes Spock unstablity is the fact that Vulcan was destroyed and the psychic link between Vulcans causes damage to him mentally since we have seen this happen before when a ship with a Vulcan crew was destroyed in TOS.

 

[Franklin]

IMO: There is something about Spock commanding the mission to stop Nero from destroying Vulcan that changes the timeline into the one that leads up to Vulcan's eventual destruction.

There's something about that that makes sense if the ice planet scene happens after the drilling scene.
They were only partially successful in stopping Nero. He's still going to drop the "red matter" into Vulcan in an attempt to destroy it. Kirk and Sulu are beamed up. Kirk runs to the bridge to find Spock is not trying to stop Nero, but frantically trying to evacuate Vulcan. In other words, he's conceded that Nero is going to destroy Vulcan.
Kirk argues with Spock that Nero must be stopped. He can't simply evacuate the "bigwigs" off of Vulcan and let Nero essentially commit genocide. Spock gets angry (if he's emotionally imbalanced in the first place, imagine how he feels knowing his home planet and the people on it are about to be destroyed), tells Kirk there's no more time, and he has to save whoever can be saved. Kirk continues to argue. Spock gets so angry he has Kirk (a stowaway to begin with) kicked off the Enterprise. He ends up on the ice planet, where he learns from old Spock that he must get back on the Enterprsie, take command, and stop Nero. Or, what Peacemaker mentions will happen.

By the way. It's not mentioned in the description of the drill scene, but I guess we are to assume that Pike is killed? Otherwise, why is Spock still in command?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

But is it actually wrong? There is no confirmed date for the first contact between Cardassians and the Federation. Just speculation that it was in the early 24th Century. Also it's possible that while these two haven't met they could still be aware of each other and through some trading with other races they came upon Kanar.

Nope. If I'd thought it was "wrong" for that reason, I'd have said that instead. Rather, it's POINTLESS, except (as I said) as a bit of somewhat divisive "fanwankery."

I don't have any personal issue with it being Kanar (though I'd have a problem were it Tranya). I just think it's silly to use Kanar. Just have her get "a drink."

The only drinks that I'd say would deserve mention in this film (and even then, only as bits of throw-away trivia!) would be Scotch Whiskey (and that would be for one particular character), Saurian Brandy (for another particular character), and perhaps Mint Julips (for yet another particular character).

Otherwise, just stick to "a drink" and leave it at that.

 

[Ovation]

I don't have any personal issue with it being Kanar (though I'd have a problem were it Tranya). I just think it's silly to use Kanar. Just have her get "a drink."

The only drinks that I'd say would deserve mention in this film (and even then, only as bits of throw-away trivia!) would be Scotch Whiskey (and that would be for one particular character), Saurian Brandy (for another particular character), and perhaps Mint Julips (for yet another particular character).

Otherwise, just stick to "a drink" and leave it at that.

Why? Is that how you order in a bar? When I order a single malt, I specify which one I want. When I order a beer, same thing. Same goes for wine, mixed drinks, even a soft drink. Why should it be any different 300 years from now?

 

[Saul]

But is it actually wrong? There is no confirmed date for the first contact between Cardassians and the Federation. Just speculation that it was in the early 24th Century. Also it's possible that while these two haven't met they could still be aware of each other and through some trading with other races they came upon Kanar.

Nope. If I'd thought it was "wrong" for that reason, I'd have said that instead. Rather, it's POINTLESS, except (as I said) as a bit of somewhat divisive "fanwankery."

I don't have any personal issue with it being Kanar (though I'd have a problem were it Tranya). I just think it's silly to use Kanar. Just have her get "a drink."

The only drinks that I'd say would deserve mention in this film (and even then, only as bits of throw-away trivia!) would be Scotch Whiskey (and that would be for one particular character), Saurian Brandy (for another particular character), and perhaps Mint Julips (for yet another particular character).

Otherwise, just stick to "a drink" and leave it at that.

Well I'm quite happy not to hear Romulan Ale being ordered again.

 

[number6]

I don't have any personal issue with it being Kanar (though I'd have a problem were it Tranya). I just think it's silly to use Kanar. Just have her get "a drink."

The only drinks that I'd say would deserve mention in this film (and even then, only as bits of throw-away trivia!) would be Scotch Whiskey (and that would be for one particular character), Saurian Brandy (for another particular character), and perhaps Mint Julips (for yet another particular character).

Otherwise, just stick to "a drink" and leave it at that.

Why? Is that how you order in a bar? When I order a single malt, I specify which one I want. When I order a beer, same thing. Same goes for wine, mixed drinks, even a soft drink. Why should it be any different 300 years from now?

Indeed..That's exactly how I see it too.

What's the big deal anyway. I am sick of every other fan insisting on how it "should" be done. Whatever.. Bring on the film and let's check out how they did it, mkay?

 

[DeafPoet]

But is it actually wrong? There is no confirmed date for the first contact between Cardassians and the Federation. Just speculation that it was in the early 24th Century. Also it's possible that while these two haven't met they could still be aware of each other and through some trading with other races they came upon Kanar.

Nope. If I'd thought it was "wrong" for that reason, I'd have said that instead. Rather, it's POINTLESS, except (as I said) as a bit of somewhat divisive "fanwankery."

I don't have any personal issue with it being Kanar (though I'd have a problem were it Tranya). I just think it's silly to use Kanar. Just have her get "a drink."

The only drinks that I'd say would deserve mention in this film (and even then, only as bits of throw-away trivia!) would be Scotch Whiskey (and that would be for one particular character), Saurian Brandy (for another particular character), and perhaps Mint Julips (for yet another particular character).

Otherwise, just stick to "a drink" and leave it at that.

Well I'm quite happy not to hear Romulan Ale being ordered again.

Me too! It's illegal, you know. Far too angsty a drink for our characters to be consuming

 

[Takvah]

I think the mention of the beverage by name is a clear indication to the fans that THE TIMELINE HAS BEEN FUBAR'D!!! Yeesh. Nero's intrusion has caused who knows what to occur. I think they can do away with canon if you assume that something is amiss. As soon as Uhura orders that drink, we know... uh... that ain't right. I guess some here might need to see Khan in a shower scene onboard the Botany Bay to see the forest for the trees. *snickers*

 

[BenRoethig]

So the climax of the movie will be Nero's attack on Vulcan.
That got me thinking...
I always assumed that Nero's target was Kirk, hence the attack on the Kelvin in the movie's first scene.
But what if he is after Spock? Or maybe both?
Just a theory:
In the 24th century, Ambassador Spock's efforts succeed and a peace treaty is signed between the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire. Nero's gang isn't happy with it and so they decide to eliminate that pointy-eared nuisance...
You see, we know the Enterprise is sent to save Vulcan, but we don't know in wich time frame this will happen.
Maybe Nero is trying to kill Spock's parents before he is born (explaining why Young Spock is so eager in saving them, having been tipped by his older self), just like he tried to do with Kirk's parents, and the Enterprise must time-travel to save the universe (there's always a friendly star nearby around wich you can slingshot...).
In Vulcan, our beloved hazel-eyed, sorry blue-eyed hero saves the planet and in doing so becomes the hero of the galaxy, becomes Star Fleet's youngest captain and... gets a new best friend (he probably gets lots of girls too...)!

He's not such much after them as he is after those who would be a threat to him. I would assume Nero wants to create a new timeline where the Romulans are the dominant power. That means weakening their enemies and preventing any chance of reunification with the Vulcans.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

Did JJ rape your childhood, too?

He seems to be romancing mine.