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Nemesis crash at end

Hmm, does the E-E have a Ten Forward with Guinan serving drinks? If so Picard probabaly 'forgot" to warn Ten Forward before ramming. ;) ;)

Guinan is seen walking around a deserted Ten Forward:

Guinan: Where the hell is everyone?

All of a sudden a shadow starts to fall over Ten Forward.'

Guinan: What the hell? *looks out window* Oh shi-

All of Ten Forward is insinerated as the E hits the Schimitar.
 
^ROFLMAO!

Seriously though I bet a good number of "Ensign Jones'" and "Lieutenant Smiths" killed. The damage to the ship by that point was already heavy, meaning that there would be probably a lot of injuries, meaning people couldn't get around easily, or that medical teams would be needed to get them out of the areas. Had the ship just pushed through without serious breaches, the casualty list would be lighter, but being that it looked like McGruff the Crime dog took a bite out of the Enterprise, there had to be signifigant losses.
 
All Picard needed to say was, All hands Troi is at the helm.

That would make sure everyone would have gotten away from the front of the ship, and also away from any window.
 
Hey Peach, awesome avatar. :lol:

Nem was, essentially just a series of poorly glued together plot contrivances.
 
The biggest editing foul-up of this scene is that Picard should have activated the self-destruct as soon as the two ships were connected. It would have justified the whole ramming maneuver. Shame on Baird (a celebrated editor) for not getting his scenes lined up correctly. Wouldn't do much good to blow up once the Scimitar had backed away.


I thought I'd read somewhere (where I don't know, can't find it on Google) that an 'omega' designation for auto destruct took out a lot of the surrounding area of space with the destructing ship. If that's true, than the Big E still would have taken out the Scimitar.



DES
 
...were those forward decks evacuated first? it does not seem like there would have been alot of time. If not, how many people died?

Wasn't the ship already on alert status? It's not as if, on the day Picard went one-on-one with Shinzon, that gatherings of families and off-duty crew would be relaxing in the the Enterprise-E's version of Ten Forward, and gazing out the front windows at the Scimitar preparing to destroy them.

All the crew would be on red alert. And wouldn't there be automated proximity alerts warning to evacuate for an attempted ram during battles?

Would you believe... bloody big airbags?

I don't know about big, but after the collision, they would certainly be bloody. :lol:
 
If the ship was on Red Alert statis, places like TenFoward and the holodeck would be closed. All noneessential personal would be in there quarters, and all officers would be on duty.
 
That still wouldn't mean that the crushed areas would have been empty. When the saucer did a forced landing in ST:GEN, a maneuver that it had been designed for, they had to evacuate sickbay, of all places! Lots of less critical inhabited spaces would no doubt have been at risk during the ramming, and specific evacuation orders would have been needed to make sure nobody was killed.

We can go two routes about it, really. Either Picard deliberately sacrificed a few hundred people because he feared/knew that alerting them would also alert Shinzon, or then he already knew the bow areas were empty because he had paid attention to the earlier damage reports that indicated the widest decks of the saucer were compromised and evacuated already.

In both cases, drama would have been better served if there had been some sort of a "revelation" about the status of those decks during or immediately after the maneuver. If Picard killed hundreds, that was his prerogative, and a heartwrenching choice that had to be made to save Earth - but we need to realize that the choice is being made, and sympathize with the hero. If Picard pulled an ace out of his sleeve, we need to be reminded that all things are so magnificiently working in his favor, that he is so cleverly exploiting the previously mentioned but cunningly underplayed fact that the bow has already been evacuated. We got neither of those revelations, which rather lessens the impact of the impact. For this rare once, more exposition (dramatically properly timed) would have been a good thing...

Timo Saloniemi
 
That still wouldn't mean that the crushed areas would have been empty. When the saucer did a forced landing in ST:GEN, a maneuver that it had been designed for, they had to evacuate sickbay, of all places! Lots of less critical inhabited spaces would no doubt have been at risk during the ramming, and specific evacuation orders would have been needed to make sure nobody was killed.

We can go two routes about it, really. Either Picard deliberately sacrificed a few hundred people because he feared/knew that alerting them would also alert Shinzon, or then he already knew the bow areas were empty because he had paid attention to the earlier damage reports that indicated the widest decks of the saucer were compromised and evacuated already.

In both cases, drama would have been better served if there had been some sort of a "revelation" about the status of those decks during or immediately after the maneuver. If Picard killed hundreds, that was his prerogative, and a heartwrenching choice that had to be made to save Earth - but we need to realize that the choice is being made, and sympathize with the hero. If Picard pulled an ace out of his sleeve, we need to be reminded that all things are so magnificiently working in his favor, that he is so cleverly exploiting the previously mentioned but cunningly underplayed fact that the bow has already been evacuated. We got neither of those revelations, which rather lessens the impact of the impact. For this rare once, more exposition (dramatically properly timed) would have been a good thing...

Timo Saloniemi

Ofcourse there would have been dead and injuries resulting when the Enterprise crashed into the Scimitar. But it would be a little bit less then if a TenFoward like place had people in it.
 
Would it? Ten-Forward on the E-D was a small facility that only catered for a couple of dozen people. OTOH, Picard's starships supposedly had a large number of crew quarters on the outer areas of the saucer, as indicated by the numerous portholes (cabin sets typically featured these portholes), while the duty stations would have been deeper within the ship (duty station sets seldom had portholes). If "civilians" retired to their cabins and the crew went to their stations, casualties might in fact increase over those incurred if the populance was randomly distributed - and certainly civilians would be worse hurt than in the random case.

But it's entirely possible that in case of alerts, the civilians are in fact herded into some sort of secure bunkers in the middle of the hull. It then becomes an issue of how secure is secure. If even the sickbay in GEN was in danger of getting crushed, then possibly only the very center of the saucer would be safe in case of a firefight or the ramming attack we saw.

Timo Saloniemi
 
1) Impulse drive is supposed to have insanely powerful acceleration and relativistic top speeds - ramming another starship should result in the instant vaporization of both vessels.

2) Why, when the Scimitar fires her reverse thrusters, do the ships separate instead of both being pulled backward together?

Bad science, bad movie.
 
Actually, the separation when pulled is excellent science and completely accurate. It's just that surprisingly many people don't understand Newton's laws of motion...

As for the capabilities of the impulse drive, obviously they don't extend to giving the ship a relativistic speed in a matter of seconds. Granted, the engines should probably do better than the less than a dozen gees we saw (or, perhaps, a few dozen gees if we assume the scene was filmed in slow motion). But then again, Picard's intention wasn't to commit suicide. He wanted Shinzon dead or incapacitated while he himself and his crew would go on living and receiving medals. So obviously he wouldn't ram at a speed/acceleration that jeopardized his own vessel.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Actually, the separation when pulled is excellent science and completely accurate. It's just that surprisingly many people don't understand Newton's laws of motion.
I understand them just fine. In a zero-gravity vacuum, with their respective bows a mass of twisted and tangled metal, BOTH ships would have to throw it into reverse if they wanted to separate. The Scimitar should've pulled the Enterprise back with it without some force holding the E in place or pulling IT back in turn.
 
Actually, the separation when pulled is excellent science and completely accurate. It's just that surprisingly many people don't understand Newton's laws of motion.
I understand them just fine. In a zero-gravity vacuum, with their respective bows a mass of twisted and tangled metal, BOTH ships would have to throw it into reverse if they wanted to separate. The Scimitar should've pulled the Enterprise back with it without some force holding the E in place or pulling IT back in turn.

[JonStewart]Nailed it![/JonStewart]
 
In a zero-gravity vacuum, with their respective bows a mass of twisted and tangled metal, BOTH ships would have to throw it into reverse if they wanted to separate. The Scimitar should've pulled the Enterprise back with it without some force holding the E in place or pulling IT back in turn.

I've mentioned here on a few different occasions that using science would have made the scene better, because Scimitar could have wrenched free by firing forward thrusters on one side and reverse on the other, then keep switching, in order to tear/wrench free. Would have been more exciting, more visually compelling, and legit, instead of what we got.
 
Actually, the separation when pulled is excellent science and completely accurate. It's just that surprisingly many people don't understand Newton's laws of motion.
I understand them just fine. In a zero-gravity vacuum, with their respective bows a mass of twisted and tangled metal, BOTH ships would have to throw it into reverse if they wanted to separate. The Scimitar should've pulled the Enterprise back with it without some force holding the E in place or pulling IT back in turn.
Because the ships were being held together by ...

That twist of tangled metal will support how much force before breaking?
 
Actually, the separation when pulled is excellent science and completely accurate. It's just that surprisingly many people don't understand Newton's laws of motion.
I understand them just fine. In a zero-gravity vacuum, with their respective bows a mass of twisted and tangled metal, BOTH ships would have to throw it into reverse if they wanted to separate. The Scimitar should've pulled the Enterprise back with it without some force holding the E in place or pulling IT back in turn.
Because the ships were being held together by ...

That twist of tangled metal will support how much force before breaking?

The point is you need an OPPOSING force, or a series of side forces, otherwise there is no resistance and your ships stay locked together.
 
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