A USS Kelvin Complaint Nobody's Made Yet...

[Kemaiku]

The Prometheus has 6 nacelles.

Two on the two main sections and two smaller ones on the saucer. I used to think there were only 5 as well, but someone found me a screencap with the ship separated from behind, there is a second nacelle on the saucers ventral undercut, the part that connects with section 2.

So the saucer does have 2, the one underneath is just hard to see and the two are "over/under" instead of out to the side.

Huh, well there we have it, sometimes even the best of us can miss a nacelle.

Since its a tiny nacelle thats practically hidden even when deployed I think nearly everyone missed it. Like I said it took a fairly large screencap and a bit of squinting to finally see the damn thing.

Its on those Star Trek Files magasine schematics too in its folded up port.

 

[Ghostface1701]

The Prometheus has 6 nacelles.

Two on the two main sections and two smaller ones on the saucer. I used to think there were only 5 as well, but someone found me a screencap with the ship separated from behind, there is a second nacelle on the saucers ventral undercut, the part that connects with section 2.

So the saucer does have 2, the one underneath is just hard to see and the two are "over/under" instead of out to the side.

Huh, well there we have it, sometimes even the best of us can miss a nacelle.

Since its a tiny nacelle thats practically hidden even when deployed I think nearly everyone missed it. Like I said it took a fairly large screencap and a bit of squinting to finally see the damn thing.

Its on those Star Trek Files magasine schematics too in its folded up port.

Huh, I stand corrected. Somehow I knew that too, but I always think there's just the one. Looks like Trek ship designers had the even-numbered rule in their minds most of the time.

 

[MANT!]

Perhaps this film can be written off as an alternate past that never happens.

I've heard that very point made about the refit NCC 1701 in TMP...from 1980 BTW...


This crap NEVER ends..

 

[ancient]

Perhaps this film can be written off as an alternate past that never happens.

I've heard that very point made about the refit NCC 1701 in TMP...from 1980 BTW...


This crap NEVER ends..

Well, it's like Batman Begins and 60's Batman. Same character. Same backstory. Same universe. As different as night and day with only basic visual similarities. And yet, there is no need for a complicated justification for BB. It's just a new version of the same story.

Trek already went through this in TMP, as you said. Oh sure they winked at the audience and called it a 'refit' and all that. But really, aside from the actors and a very basic turn-your-head-sideways-and-squint-and-it-sorta-looks-similar Enterprise exterior, TMP looked nothing like TOS.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Or at least, not that I'm aware of. The ship only has one warp nacelle. This is in blatant defiance of Roddenberry's Rules of Starship Design, which says warp nacelles have to be in even numbers. A rule which has been followed faithfully with the exception of the redesigned Enterprise D in AGT, but that can be written off as an alternate future that never happens. So what gives with the Kelvin and its odd-numbered nacelle?

"Roddenberry's Rules" weren't made up 'til TNG, though. Throughout the 70s and 80s, arguably the heyday or fandom, there was never any such "rule." And even TNG didn't stick with the "dual nacelles with direct exposure to each other" throughout the series in all cases... this only applied to Starfleet vessels of that particular generation.

Roddenberry made up a lot of new rules for TNG, and even in the case of TNG, we got a series finale which broke several of those "rules."

The rules provided absolutely nothing beneficial towards the series or the storytelling therein. It simply created nonsensical limitations without a sound justification behind those limitations.

By the time we got "Enterprise," we see ring-type engines and all variety of other designs. Does anyone know what the warp drive in a Klingon BOP was like?

So, if you really feel strongly about "Roddenberry's rules" you can just decide that these rules (and the "warp 10 is infinity" thing) only apply to that particular generation of warp drive.

 

[Timo]

And even TNG didn't stick with the "dual nacelles with direct exposure to each other" throughout the series in all cases... this only applied to Starfleet vessels of that particular generation.

And not even that. If we define the "generation" as ships appearing in TNG and looking a bit like the E-D, then the Nebula very prominently broke the intervisibility "rule", two of the "BoBW" Galaxy-style kitbashes broke the paired nacelle "rule", and two broke the intervisibility "rule". And the Jenolan from "Relics" extended the intervisibility "rule" defiance to things designed in the TNG era for the TOS movie era. Why, one might even think that nobody involved in creating new ships for the show had ever heard of these "rules"...

Does anyone know what the warp drive in a Klingon BOP was like?

There are some Okudagrams, first seen in DS9 "Blood Oath" AFAIK, that show a single set of five or so "Federation-style" warp coils at the centerline of the aft section. They'd be a bit above the whale tanks, I guess... Another case of a single-naceller, then.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[3D Master]

Or at least, not that I'm aware of. The ship only has one warp nacelle. This is in blatant defiance of Roddenberry's Rules of Starship Design, which says warp nacelles have to be in even numbers. A rule which has been followed faithfully with the exception of the redesigned Enterprise D in AGT, but that can be written off as an alternate future that never happens. So what gives with the Kelvin and its odd-numbered nacelle?

The only reason Gene made up that rule was so he could piss over Franz Joseph's technical manual that DID feature one-nacelled ships.

Klingon Bird of Preys do not have a nacelle at all, their warp drive is in a wide single under carriage, similarly Ferengi Marauders.

In other words: one-nacelled ships is GOOD. It removes a black spot of greed off of Star Trek, and brings the masterful Star Trek technical manual; the manual that correctly exactly predicted warp drive theory 25 years before it existed in real science back in.

Has anybody ever considered the notion that the third nacelle pictured above is just a 'spare' ... y'know, like fancy touring cars having a spare tire mounted on the back?

Seeing as all three nacelles activated when it went to warp: no.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

...the manual that correctly exactly predicted warp drive theory 25 years before it existed in real science back in.

It did no such thing. Joseph simply threw borrowed words around.

 

[3D Master]

...the manual that correctly exactly predicted warp drive theory 25 years before it existed in real science back in.

It did no such thing. Joseph simply threw borrowed words around.

Right, "Create a subspace bubble around ship, shrink space-time in front of it, expand it behind it, and the universe will zip past you at speeds greater than that of light while you and your bubble stay stationary," is throwing borrowed words around.

Strange that, that nobody before EVER came up with the idea that universe itself would zip past you, instead of you moving faster than the speed of light, strange indeed.

Stranger more, still, that 25 years later when a scientist puts the concept in the equations of general relativity and super string physics, EXACTLY what he thought up 25 years earlier - the universe moving past you at speeds greater than that of light - comes rolling out of those equations. But you know, all of that doesn't matter, he just threw around "borrowed words".

 

[Cary L. Brown]

...the manual that correctly exactly predicted warp drive theory 25 years before it existed in real science back in.

It did no such thing. Joseph simply threw borrowed words around.

Right, "Create a subspace bubble around ship, shrink space-time in front of it, expand it behind it, and the universe will zip past you at speeds greater than that of light while you and your bubble stay stationary," is throwing borrowed words around.

Strange that, that nobody before EVER came up with the idea that universe itself would zip past you, instead of you moving faster than the speed of light, strange indeed.

Stranger more, still, that 25 years later when a scientist puts the concept in the equations of general relativity and super string physics, EXACTLY what he thought up 25 years earlier - the universe moving past you at speeds greater than that of light - comes rolling out of those equations. But you know, all of that doesn't matter, he just threw around "borrowed words".

Look, FJ didn't come up with the idea... but he was a technically-minded guy who borrowed ideas from others and sythesized something that seemed, on the surface, quite rational out of it.

His idea is basically the clearest fictional description of what I tend to call "surfing on space-time" (or in Trek terms, "surfing on subspace"). It does have the advantage of making a lot more sense than what we later got in the TNG-era works.

But I think it's overstating the case to say that he invented this stuff out of whole cloth. He was a smart guy who did some great work, and who Roddenberry apparently felt threatened by. It's not necessary to build him up artificially... his work builds him up quite sufficiently without any such effort.

On the other hand, you have to be prepared for some of the "TrekBBS Experts (tm)" to come out and decry him and his work. Don't take them seriously... they're people who've never accomplished anything outside of this little fantasy world, after all.

FJ was a smarter man than most of the "experts" on this website. But he didn't actually invent warp drive.

 

[Bill Morris]

BOYCOTT!!

Seriously, the Kelvin looks fantastic. No one really takes the 'even number of nacelles' rule seriously.

I guess you know that third nacelle is blocking the standard deuterium fill ports on the spine of a Galaxy class starship. Not a big deal, just requires some extra modification.

 

[Stag]

BOYCOTT!!

Seriously, the Kelvin looks fantastic. No one really takes the 'even number of nacelles' rule seriously.

I guess you know that third nacelle is blocking the standard deuterium fill ports on the spine of a Galaxy class starship. Not a big deal, just requires some extra modification.

Nope - by that time they were finally able to have the logistics in pace to switch over completely to E85 Ethanol. There is a small fill cap under the rear license plate of the ship pictured...

 

[Quagmire58]

What do we know for sure about the Kelvin. We have two blurry pictures of the ship during a battle.

It appears there is one nacelle. Why? Maybe it was rushed into service and they made quick modifications because there was only one nacelle available. Maybe it isn't a nacelle, it could be some sort of deflector array, or a weapon prototype. Maybe there were two nacelles, they are in a battle maybe they were lost in battle or ejected due to damage. Maybe there are two nacelles one above the saucer the other below the saucer in the main fuselage.

My point is it is way too early to know.

We do know the number is NCC-0514, so it probably isn't during Kirk's adult life, unless the ship was brought out of retirement.

Maybe it is part of the Kobayashi Maru scenario. Maybe it was part of his solution, eject the nacelles and use the super weapon attached to the main dish.

Again it is way too early to know why it is the way it is. At least they kept true to the uniforms for the most part. It does look as if the interior and exterior look different from the original series.

I can't wait for it to come out, It might be my first ever midnight show.

 

[Data Holmes]

There were single nacelle ships seen on the bridge screens in TWOK and TSFS, as well as three nacelle ship schematics.

They were from the FJ tech manual, which was why GR invented the "rules" to begin with, because he was pissy he got no money from the FJTM and wanted to make sure stuff derived from his works weren't used in TNG... Which went out the window after he left and they did single and tri nacelle ships in the wolf359 wreckage from BoBW and reuse in Unification, in All good things, in the DS9 Frankenstine fleet, ect...

 

[blaXXer]

Ohwell, more NERRRRDGHAARRRBL...

 

[JoeZhang]

What do we know for sure about the Kelvin. We have two blurry pictures of the ship during a battle.

It appears there is one nacelle. Why? Maybe it was rushed into service and they made quick modifications because there was only one nacelle available. Maybe it isn't a nacelle, it could be some sort of deflector array, or a weapon prototype. Maybe there were two nacelles, they are in a battle maybe they were lost in battle or ejected due to damage. Maybe there are two nacelles one above the saucer the other below the saucer in the main fuselage.

No the top one holds the shuttle bay.

 

[Squiggy]

Or at least, not that I'm aware of. The ship only has one warp nacelle. This is in blatant defiance of Roddenberry's Rules of Starship Design, which says warp nacelles have to be in even numbers. A rule which has been followed faithfully with the exception of the redesigned Enterprise D in AGT, but that can be written off as an alternate future that never happens. So what gives with the Kelvin and its odd-numbered nacelle?

Oh, please don't count the TBOBW kitbashes as legitimate ships. We neevr really got a good look at many of them and only very few of them are even decent designs anyway.

So we're now including as things that never appeared on screen into the continuity and excluding things that appear in alternate futures and things that never "got a good look" and ships that weren't decent designs even though they did appear on screen which is the only rule of Trekinuity.



Ok. Does that mean we can include slash fiction?

 

[Kemaiku]

The Kelvin's single nacelle is quite large proportionally to the rest of the ship, is dead center line and extents a good distance under the ship, it could easily produce a warp field large and symmetrical enough to encompass the Kelvin.

 

[tranya]

So we're now including as things that never appeared on screen into the continuity and excluding things that appear in alternate futures and things that never "got a good look" and ships that weren't decent designs even though they did appear on screen which is the only rule of Trekinuity.

But, as others have said, single- and three-nacelle ships have appeared on screen. So, by your definition, that's canon, right? I mean, if the Trekinuity party line is that odd-numbered nacelles aren't canon because of some fictional "balance" law, then how in these alternate futures are they able to do that? Have the laws of physics changed in the future of "All Good Things..."?

I dunno, I find these debates to be truly silly. Especially when we're looking at STXI most likely being an alternate timeline anyway.

 

[SeerSGB]

Or at least, not that I'm aware of. The ship only has one warp nacelle. This is in blatant defiance of Roddenberry's Rules of Starship Design, which says warp nacelles have to be in even numbers. A rule which has been followed faithfully with the exception of the redesigned Enterprise D in AGT, but that can be written off as an alternate future that never happens. So what gives with the Kelvin and its odd-numbered nacelle?

Oh, please don't count the TBOBW kitbashes as legitimate ships. We neevr really got a good look at many of them and only very few of them are even decent designs anyway.

So we're now including as things that never appeared on screen into the continuity and excluding things that appear in alternate futures and things that never "got a good look" and ships that weren't decent designs even though they did appear on screen which is the only rule of Trekinuity.



Ok. Does that mean we can include slash fiction?

Well it is the 'Trek fandom way, after all. Get a 100 fans in a bar, and get a 100 definitions of what is and isn't canon. A grand unified continuity for all the past series is just a cute little story, nothing more.

As for slash fiction: no matter how much you wish it, their not going to canonize you Trip/Spock/Riker/Paris crossover time travel orgy fic.