Romulans should've looked like Vulcans
- Thread starter commodore64
- Start date
And in Enterprise Incident -- the commander, subcommander, Kirk impersonating a Rommie (and they buy it) all are flatties. More over, I don't recall seeing a flat-headed Romulan in TNG. It's like they suddenly changed. I think Coto -- since he was doing ridges vs. no ridges plotlines -- also should've covered this, especially since we see thick-browed Romulans in Enterprise. (I really don't think Coto should cover it, because it's dumb.)
I also think we veered a little from the Romulans looking exactly like Vulcans make them a sneakier menace. In other words, it's better for the actual plot this way ... kinda like BSG -- you don't know who's a Cylon and who isn't. Okay, you do now, but that was a great mystery that lasted about 3 seasons and added to the tension of the show. In fact, I would say out of all the "tension" in BSG, the "I don't know who I can trust/Cylon/Human" conflict was the best.
I'm on the side of wanting the post-TOS show Romulans to look like Vulcans. I also think the fact that they were physically identical to the Vulcans but so opposite in their behavior helped make them interesting. The ridges did make their appearance a little more sinister, but I think it made them look a bit too distinct. I wish that TPTB had come up with a compromise and showed smooth and ridged Romulans, same with the Klingons.
I also agree with the idea of the Romulans being the big bad from the start of ENT. The Suliban were basically acting Romulanesque anyway, so why not use them instead? I had hoped that ENT would be the show where the Romulans were really fleshed out as adversaries. Well, at least I have the Enterprise novels.
I also agree with the idea of the Romulans being the big bad from the start of ENT. The Suliban were basically acting Romulanesque anyway, so why not use them instead? I had hoped that ENT would be the show where the Romulans were really fleshed out as adversaries. Well, at least I have the Enterprise novels.
Oh yeah, I despised the BermanBraga Romulans. The Romulans were the most original villains in Trek- descendants of Vulcans who didn't embrace Surak. Looking identical to the human's closest ally made them unique and not just angry blowholes like the Klingons. Instead of continuing the TOS concept AND expanding Diane Duane's EXCELLANT Rihannsu novels, BermanBraga turned Romulans into another one-dimensional fore-head of the week baddie- remember the Kazons? I wish when Coto took over, he would've brought the true Romulans back but BermanBraga would've pulled a hissy fit since they considered TNG true "canon!"
I am elated that
I am elated that
Eric Bana's Nero in Star Trek XI is ridgeless which means BermanBraga's fakeass Romulans are erased for good!
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uh,,
the romulans were bought back in late first season tng when gene was still firmly in control and well before as pointed out braga was even around.
I stand corrected. I've linked the two for so long that its become habit. Could've been Gene's suggestion that Romulans grew ridges- I doubt it- but whoever thought of it, it was a bad idea. Turned Romulans into Klingon-wanabees. The Cardassians were more interesting than the Romulans in the 24th Century.
Actually, it was Star Trek makeup designer Michael Westmore's idea to give them forehead ridges.
I don't know about their appearance in Star Trek XI. The only Romulan we've seen so far is Nero and he might turn out to be Spock's son for all we know...
Other possibilities include surgical alteration to pass as TOS era Vulcans or Romulans.
Other possibilities include surgical alteration to pass as TOS era Vulcans or Romulans.
As for Enterprise, I always thought they made a mistake with them... nothing to do with forehead ridges though. I'm talking about ditching the clipped accents from Minefield. Almost an homage to WWII submarine movies in the way the Romulan sounded like suspicious U-Boat Captain. I personally would've liked to hear more of their native tongue. Maybe scenes between each other with subtitles below, something done often for Klingons but not Romulans.
Another peeve for me, in an otherwise great story was a bruiser like Brian Thompson playing Valdore. He wasn't the best casting during Babel One/United/The Aenar. Someone angular and more credibly calculating in those reflective scenes (about Empire expansion) was needed.
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For those of you getting spoiler-happy about Star Trek XI without bothering to use spoiler tags...DESIST. 
There are posters here who would prefer to remain unspoiled about the movie.
If you don't wish to avail yourself of the way-cool spoiler tag feature we have here, get thee to the Star Trek XI forum.
There are posters here who would prefer to remain unspoiled about the movie.
If you don't wish to avail yourself of the way-cool spoiler tag feature we have here, get thee to the Star Trek XI forum.
there are now conficting photos of nero. though there is out of the blue speculation that he may be the son of the romulan commander from enterprise incident. and do come by the trek new movie forum if you want to discuss more of this.
oh and the spoiler tag.
one you have to be in advanced .
it the the one that looks like a smilie that ate a lemon to the far right.
westmore may have concieved of doing the ridges but during that period of time they wouldnt have been done without gene.
and hurley may be even then be far more responsible then berman.
and i agree about the casting of valdore.
really about the only weak link in the trilogy.
People,
First, I tend to agree that the Romulans could have been featured more prominently and earlier on in ENT -- but of course, that brings up the whole "violating canon" thing, since our heroes didn't know what the Romulans looked like till Balance of Terror. They handled that limitation well.
So, the Future Guy and those behind the Temporal War could've been Romulan time travelers, trying to change the past so the Romulans would wind up in control of the galaxy. Hmm, sounds familiar!
BTW, I'm neutral on the ridges vs. no ridges argument, although I tend to lean toward "no ridges," as it's kind of a silly distinction. But now, the Romulans have been established as having them, so they probably will have them from now on.
I also happen to think the Romulans, while used sparingly in TNG, were in some excellent eps, chief among them The Defector and The Enemy. I also got a kick out of The Mind's Eye as an homage to The Manchurian Candidate, as Geordi is brainwashed by the Romulans to be an assasin.
I also wish that instead of the Cardassians, that DSN used the Romulans as the occupiers of Bajor. As I recall, Marc Alaimo's first TNG role was as Romulan Commander T'Bok in The Neutral Zone, and I though he was just as deliciously arrogant as Gul Dukat!
Another missed opportunity was not having T'Rul appear again after the DSN two-parter The Search, where we meet the Founders. It would've also been nice to see Bashir and T'Rul have a romance -- what fun would that be, him hooking up with such an insufferable character!
Red Ranger
First, I tend to agree that the Romulans could have been featured more prominently and earlier on in ENT -- but of course, that brings up the whole "violating canon" thing, since our heroes didn't know what the Romulans looked like till Balance of Terror. They handled that limitation well.
So, the Future Guy and those behind the Temporal War could've been Romulan time travelers, trying to change the past so the Romulans would wind up in control of the galaxy. Hmm, sounds familiar!
BTW, I'm neutral on the ridges vs. no ridges argument, although I tend to lean toward "no ridges," as it's kind of a silly distinction. But now, the Romulans have been established as having them, so they probably will have them from now on.
I also happen to think the Romulans, while used sparingly in TNG, were in some excellent eps, chief among them The Defector and The Enemy. I also got a kick out of The Mind's Eye as an homage to The Manchurian Candidate, as Geordi is brainwashed by the Romulans to be an assasin.
I also wish that instead of the Cardassians, that DSN used the Romulans as the occupiers of Bajor. As I recall, Marc Alaimo's first TNG role was as Romulan Commander T'Bok in The Neutral Zone, and I though he was just as deliciously arrogant as Gul Dukat!
Another missed opportunity was not having T'Rul appear again after the DSN two-parter The Search, where we meet the Founders. It would've also been nice to see Bashir and T'Rul have a romance -- what fun would that be, him hooking up with such an insufferable character!
Red Ranger
I don't think it's so much that he had a fetish throughout later seasons of Trek as that, well, he was operating on a TV budget and a TV production timeframe. And if your goal is to make someone look alien, what's the easiest, cheapest part of the face to apply stuff to to mark them as alien? The forehead.
I've always felt that once TNG changed the Romulans, SOME explanation was needed.
I was SO glad the Klingon thing finally got ironed out on ENTERPRISE.
The Romulan thing could be explained the same way.
(To be honest, for the life of me I can't remember how the Romulans looked on ENTERPRISE! TNG style? Ridges?)
I'd wondered after seeing the TNG change if something happened to them, which would tie in to the fact they'd been "missing" from the Alpha Quadrant for about half a century. 'We've been busy with other things' they said, 'But now, we're back'.
Something caused the changes, I figured, something so dramatic it kept them SO busy they had to stay totally focused on the problem.
With the Klingons also having been changed, and the fact that they'd at times apparently exchanged tech, I wondered if the Romulans had had something similar happen to them as happened to the Klingons ("whatever that was", at the time) and it may have had a devastating effect on their civilization.
I figured maybe the guys with the ridges were the survivors of "whatever" and this is why they looked different.
If the ENTERPRISE Romulans looked TNG-style, tho' (again, I actually can't remember), that blows my theory out the window.
If the ENT Rommies had ridges (had to get that in), then we have to look elsewhere for an explanation. Crossbreeding with the Remans we saw in NEMESIS? This would be helped by the helmets seen in TOS. We really don't know what they all looked like. Only that a few of them that we saw looked just like Vulcans.
On TNG we also saw a Romulan woman who looked totally Vulcan, and had somehow passed as one for years. Nothing said about her being altered, and no effort to "restore her true appearance" even after she was back with the Rommies.
Maybe by TNG's era even less Rommies looked like Vulcans, but there were still a few?
If THAT's the case, gradual change maybe due to Reman crossbreeding, who knows when it started? Could have been in place back in Archer's day, and that'd certainly be supported by the helmet guys in TOS.
I dunno.
I liked the Klingon thing getting explained, and wish this had been too.
I was SO glad the Klingon thing finally got ironed out on ENTERPRISE.
The Romulan thing could be explained the same way.
(To be honest, for the life of me I can't remember how the Romulans looked on ENTERPRISE! TNG style? Ridges?)
I'd wondered after seeing the TNG change if something happened to them, which would tie in to the fact they'd been "missing" from the Alpha Quadrant for about half a century. 'We've been busy with other things' they said, 'But now, we're back'.
Something caused the changes, I figured, something so dramatic it kept them SO busy they had to stay totally focused on the problem.
With the Klingons also having been changed, and the fact that they'd at times apparently exchanged tech, I wondered if the Romulans had had something similar happen to them as happened to the Klingons ("whatever that was", at the time) and it may have had a devastating effect on their civilization.
I figured maybe the guys with the ridges were the survivors of "whatever" and this is why they looked different.
If the ENTERPRISE Romulans looked TNG-style, tho' (again, I actually can't remember), that blows my theory out the window.
If the ENT Rommies had ridges (had to get that in), then we have to look elsewhere for an explanation. Crossbreeding with the Remans we saw in NEMESIS? This would be helped by the helmets seen in TOS. We really don't know what they all looked like. Only that a few of them that we saw looked just like Vulcans.
On TNG we also saw a Romulan woman who looked totally Vulcan, and had somehow passed as one for years. Nothing said about her being altered, and no effort to "restore her true appearance" even after she was back with the Rommies.
Maybe by TNG's era even less Rommies looked like Vulcans, but there were still a few?
If THAT's the case, gradual change maybe due to Reman crossbreeding, who knows when it started? Could have been in place back in Archer's day, and that'd certainly be supported by the helmet guys in TOS.
I dunno.
I liked the Klingon thing getting explained, and wish this had been too.
Gastrof:
Try this theory on for size. First, let's say the Romulans' natural appearance consists of the v-shaped ridge on their forehead, and is a change that happened for some reason when they separated thousands of years ago from the Vulcans. Since you like the whole "augment" explanation for the human-looking Klingons, perhaps a Klingon augment fell into the hands of the Romulans.
Then, a Romulan scientist tries to introduce the augment genes into the Romulan gene pool, and it spreads like a virus, killing some, giving greater strength and smooth foreheads to others. After centuries, eventually, the original Romulan genome reasserts itself and so by the 24th century, the ridges are once again present in nearly everyone in the population.
Red Ranger
Try this theory on for size. First, let's say the Romulans' natural appearance consists of the v-shaped ridge on their forehead, and is a change that happened for some reason when they separated thousands of years ago from the Vulcans. Since you like the whole "augment" explanation for the human-looking Klingons, perhaps a Klingon augment fell into the hands of the Romulans.
Then, a Romulan scientist tries to introduce the augment genes into the Romulan gene pool, and it spreads like a virus, killing some, giving greater strength and smooth foreheads to others. After centuries, eventually, the original Romulan genome reasserts itself and so by the 24th century, the ridges are once again present in nearly everyone in the population.
Red Ranger
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